2 Week old seedling, stunted, deformed, and just not good at all.

Skittles McP said:

5.8 is the ideal PH for coco...

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Yes and no 5.8 is in the sweet spot but 2 very important nutrients will have problems,both cal and mag have reduced uptake under 6 ph in hydro.This weird CEC phenomenon is why I dislike coco.

Skittles McP said:

I rinsed the coco one time with about 2x the volume of distilled water. I have been trying to get the humidity higher. I started by putting a glass full of water in front of the fan and it has raised it about 5%. I think I'll also try the wet towel method and see how much it helps. I think I may have under estimated the amount of cal/mag I need to add. I've heard that coco has issues with cal/mag retention and it can be hard for the plant to absorb it from the coco. I was just trying to take it easy on the young plant but the combination of distilled water and coco as a medium means I need to add extra cal/mag. This is just my hypothesis at the moment.

I started feeding more frequently (every 48 hours) and giving it more liquid at each feeding. I also bumped up the cal/mag in my nute mix about 2mL.

The new growth is actually moving along better now and looks healthy. Hopefully the problem is solved but we will have to wait and see for a few more days.

Click to expand...

when u expanded that block with distilled water I hope u added2ml cal mag per gal of water.very important its called charging the coco .all blocked or bricked coco needs to be charged

Whoever said to give that little plant more Nutes, lol. That pants is overnuted and the medium is causing lockout. You absolutely do not need to feed a plant that size regardless of medium. I run dwc, coco, and perlite. All mediums that do not provide nutrients in their own and i never give plants hat size food because they end up looking like the one In the op.


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kmog33 said:

Whoever said to give that little plant more Nutes, lol. That pants is overnuted and the medium is causing lockout. You absolutely do not need to feed a plant that size regardless of medium. I run dwc, coco, and perlite. All mediums that do not provide nutrients in their own and i never give plants hat size food because they end up looking like the one In the op.


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Click to expand...

I was the one that said it

That plant is not showing signs of being overfed, where do you see that? It's deficient obviously, either from lack of available nutrients in its medium or from improper PH. I still stand by what I said.

You don't give plants on their third set basic nutrition?

AbeFroman said:

I was the one that said it

That plant is not showing signs of being overfed, where do you see that? It's deficient obviously, either from lack of available nutrients in its medium or from improper PH. I still stand by what I said.

You don't give plants on their third set basic nutrition?lol

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Not if they're that size and showing lockout due to hot media lol.


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Also that is the first set of leaves on his plant. And barely the first set of true leaves. Where are you getting third node?


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So you know it's a hot meia? From what? Th 1/5 diluted nutrient strength and intermittent straight water feeding.Or is it the excess sugar build up in the stem from lack of P? Not to mention no signs of burn.

AbeFroman said:

So you know it's a hot meia? From what? Th 1/5 diluted nutrient strength and intermittent straight water feeding.Or is it the excess sugar build up in the stem from lack of P? Not to mention no signs of burn.

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From the fact that he's fed that plant multiple times and it's showing lockout. There's no way a plant that size gets a p deficiency from being in good conditions with soil that is inert or has very little nutrients. For instance, I haven't fed these at all and they're in straight coco. Notice I don't have p lockout botching on the base of the plants. its starting to lighten up so I'll feed it soon with ~200-300ppm...

Suggesting that someone feed a plant that has very obvious lockout, not deficiency is not a great plan. Deficiency because they aren't being fed enough show gradually if your media is balanced. You don't get brown splotches on your seedlings like that.

Here's another one fading because it needs to be fed. notice how it's fading not blotching out.

Most npk deficiencies, if you have a well balanced soil and media, are almost pretty in their onset because the plant is gradually depleting all of the nutrients available. Ph imbalance, hot soil, and over nuting is the most common cause of new growers thinking they have deficiencies and then fucking their shit up more because they keep feeding when they should just get their media and nute regimen in check.

I'm going to clarify that I'm talking specifically about plants this young with the blotching. It happens on older leaves of older plant when nutrients are fully depleted in those leaves. Newer growth will have much more minor signs of any deficiency. If blotching happens overnight or really quickly at all, it's not a deficiency it's another problem.


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If you read what I wrote. I said he either had a plant that was hungry or needed to check his PH. The plant is suffering from a deficiency and you don't know if it's lack of available nutrition in the medium or lockout. You said it's because the soil is to hot. How do you know that?I don't see any burn

Running straight coco and being afraid to add fundamental nutrients to the medium from the onset makes no sense to me and I end up with plants looking like the one In the OP when I did.

Also you're telling me you did nothing to your media in the first picture besides giving that plant what? Straight PH tap water? You are also contradicting your point. If he can run a plant without adding basic nutrition in the media at that age having a lockout would be irrelivant.

I'll also add it's obvious we have different styles of how we treat our plants. I don't "feed" my plants. They are always fed by the nutrient solution they are saturated in. From the cradle to final flush they are watered with nutrients. No offense my plants never get to the condition of the ones in your pics. They are always happy and healthy even the bottom vegetation. I don't wait for signs they are lacking.

So saying he already fed his plants twice means nothing to me. I say feed them again just better.

I have a closet grow 3ft deep 7ft long 5ft high, obviously scrog paradise. mars 700w 3.5ft away veg spectrum only. watered plants in bushdoctor's coco loco straight no extra perlite only a few times over the past 2 weeks as needed humiodity almost always 50-70%. 1 fan oscilating and another box fan exhausting when temps are on the higher end temperature at light level 79-86 so presumably cooler almost 4ft down at canopy. only factor that changed isthat i waterd with diluted seaweed liquid4/5 of 1ml to a liter of 5.8ph water that i ph'd down from almost 6.5 for the first time.for 2 weeks i just whats up with this

AbeFroman said:

If you read what I wrote. I said he either had a plant that was hungry or needed to check his PH. The plant is suffering from a deficiency and you don't know if it's lack of available nutrition in the medium or lockout. You said it's because the soil is to hot. How do you know that?I don't see any burn

Running straight coco and being afraid to add fundamental nutrients to the medium from the onset makes no sense to me and I end up with plants looking like the one In the OP when I did.

Also you're telling me you did nothing to your media in the first picture besides giving that plant what? Straight PH tap water? You are also contradicting your point. If he can run a plant without adding basic nutrition in the media at that age having a lockout would be irrelivant.

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i don't ph my tap water. Run dwc. And yeah no Nutes until they have 3rd node or so. True node, cotyledon don't count.

AbeFroman said:

I'll also add it's obvious we have different styles of how we treat our plants. I don't "feed" my plants. They are always fed by the nutrient solution they are saturated in. From the cradle to final flush they are watered with nutrients. No offense my plants never get to the condition of the ones in your pics. They are always happy and healthy even the bottom vegetation. I don't wait for signs they are lacking.

So saying he already fed his plants twice means nothing to me. I say feed them again just better.

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I don't know what about my plants make you think that they look unhappy either. The one cup is in flower and eating faster than I can feed it. The little green plant is just chilling so I'm not looking for super growth out of it. I also picked the only two seedlings I have that were showing deficiencies most are fairly green but I was giving an example of how deficiencies show in balanced soil. You say you flush but your plants never show the condition of mine, which is more or less impossible. You're saying you flush(already kind of odd) but never show n deficiency...?

My dwc plants when I flower them look a little different. dont really have too many problems. And his plants are showing lockout I understand you said ph, which makes sense, but then you told him to Feed them.

Plants that size do not get deficiencies like that in optimal conditions, period.


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kmog33 said:

i don't ph my tap water. Run dwc. And yeah no Nutes until they have 3rd node or so. True node, cotyledon don't count.

I don't know what about my plants make you think that they look unhappy either. The one cup is in flower and eating faster than I can feed it. The little green plant is just chilling so I'm not looking for super growth out of it. I also picked the only two seedlings I have that were showing deficiencies most are fairly green but I was giving an example of how deficiencies show in balanced soil. You say you flush but your plants never show the condition of mine, which is more or less impossible. You're saying you flush(already kind of odd) but never show n deficiency...?

My dwc plants when I flower them look a little different.

dont really have too many problems. And his plants are showing lockout I understand you said ph, which makes sense, but then you told him to Feed them.

Plants that size do not get deficiencies like that in optimal conditions, period.


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Click to expand...

I'm not sure what your initial response means. What do you start your plants in, just RO with nothing because it's dwc? I ran dwc for years and I always started my plants in a low level nutrient solution too.

You showed two plants with obvious deficiciencies. Those are unhappy plants in my opinion.

We can agree to disagree on the lockout being the only possible cause.It could be lack of available nutrients as well. I'm still baffled how a plant can be suffering from lockout when you say it doesn't even need available nutrients at that stage. You also said his soil was hot and I don't agree there are any signs of that whatsoever.

Every watering my plants are fed, so sure I told him to feed them again. The point being to continue to saturate his plants in soiless. Because continuing to add a low level nutrient solution will not hurt the plants, expecially since he is essentially robbing his plants of available nutrients when he is watering with straight water. Plus as he continues to add the PH'ed solution it will improve the stability of the mediums ph. Which is why I told him to be sure there was lots of run off. Of course having the correct ph'ed solution is essential here.

Obviously my plants show deficiencies after I start to flush. Which is why I pointed out they are fed non stop until that point, but perhaps I should have been more clear.

AbeFroman said:

I'm not sure what your initial response means. What do you start your plants in, just RO with nothing because it's dwc? I ran dwc for years and I always started my plants in a low level nutrient solution too.

You showed two plants with obvious deficiciencies. Those are unhappy plants in my opinion.

We can agree to disagree on the lockout being the only possible cause.It could be lack of available nutrients as well. I'm still baffled how a plant can be suffering from lockout when you say it doesn't even need available nutrients at that stage. You also said his soil was hot and I don't agree there are any signs of that whatsoever.

Every watering my plants are fed, so sure I told him to feed them again. The point being to continue to saturate his plants in soiless. Because continuing to add a low level nutrient solution will not hurt the plants, expecially since he is essentially robbing his plants of available nutrients when he is watering with straight water. Plus as he continues to add the PH'ed solution it will improve the stability of the mediums ph. Which is why I told him to be sure there was lots of run off. Of course having the correct ph'ed solution is essential here.

Obviously my plants show deficiencies after I start to flush. Which is why I pointed out they are fed non stop until that point, but perhaps I should have been more clear.

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You stated, you "NEVER" let your plant get the the condition of mine, which was a lie. And the first plant pictures is a light green strain, so the deficiency is barely showing at all, ever grown green crack? Ime it's always about that color green. So you're saying its unhappy because I stated it was starting to fade, or just because you felt like assuming you knew what color every strain ever grows? And you know from looking at it what strain it is....?

I don't use ro water, straight tap water, I'm fortunately in a place that the ph is decent enough coming out lol.

I stated the soil is hot or imbalanced because of the brown, burnt blotches on the cotyledon of his plant show that his plant is not taking up the nutrients he is giving it, as he's stated he's fed multiple times. I have literally never in over ten years, had a plant that size show a deficiency like that in balanced media. Soilless is different than nft, aero, or dwc and yes, I agree that a super low level of nutrients on the first water ~200-300ppm to get a base level into your soilless that's started inert(unecesssry but not detrimental like the op), but then it's very unusual to feed again until there is a bit of growth, as a seedling does not have the uptake and foliar surface area to utilize all of the nutrients in your initial nutrient solution.

I'm going to requote myself because you keep asking the same question over and over and I keep answering which but you seem to be ignoring it,

"I stated the soil is hot or imbalanced because of the brown, burnt blotches on the cotyledon of his plant show that his plant is not taking up the nutrients he is giving it, as he's stated he's fed multiple times. "


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I agree,seedlings have food in the embryo,that will last them 2 weeks or so from sprout.However I still think in a soiless or hydro grow you need to be more accurate,not only for the health of the plant but repeatability for you.Make sure you have a way to check PH and EC.Work up slowly from .3ec,so you are about 1ec at transition to flower.Depending on the plant and environmental factors,but you really shouldnt ever have to exceed 1.5ec for the grow.Keep detailed notes.Watering schedules,ec,ph,temps,rh,light height and anything else you can think of.Approaching your grow this way will not only help you on this grow,but more importantly future grows.

kmog33 said:

You stated, you "NEVER" let your plant get the the condition of mine, which was a lie. And the first plant pictures is a light green strain, so the deficiency is barely showing at all, ever grown green crack? Ime it's always about that color green. So you're saying its unhappy because I stated it was starting to fade, or just because you felt like assuming you knew what color every strain ever grows? And you know from looking at it what strain it is....?

I don't use ro water, straight tap water, I'm fortunately in a place that the ph is decent enough coming out lol.

I stated the soil is hot or imbalanced because of the brown, burnt blotches on the cotyledon of his plant show that his plant is not taking up the nutrients he is giving it, as he's stated he's fed multiple times. I have literally never in over ten years, had a plant that size show a deficiency like that in balanced media. Soilless is different than nft, aero, or dwc and yes, I agree that a super low level of nutrients on the first water ~200-300ppm to get a base level into your soilless that's started inert(unecesssry but not detrimental like the op), but then it's very unusual to feed again until there is a bit of growth, as a seedling does not have the uptake and foliar surface area to utilize all of the nutrients in your initial nutrient solution.

I'm going to requote myself because you keep asking the same question over and over and I keep answering which but you seem to be ignoring it,

"I stated the soil is hot or imbalanced because of the brown, burnt blotches on the cotyledon of his plant show that his plant is not taking up the nutrients he is giving it, as he's stated he's fed multiple times. "


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Click to expand...

Oh I see. I clarify what I said regardong constantly feeding nutrients and now you're caling me a liar.

Also now after you admit you posted hand picked pictures of plants with obvious issues they suddenly don't really have issues and it's a matter of me recognising the color of particular strains. What about the obvious clawing the green crack that's supposed to be light green is experiencing?

You also clearly don't recognise how soiless mediums work. So what if he has fed it twice already! You go ahead and feed once or whatever you do and wait until they look hungry or starving like your pictures before you feed again. I would stick with dwc if I were you.

Since you think that blotch of necrosis with yellowing around it that just showing on the first set of true leaves (that's not a cotyledon fyi) is actually nutrient burn I'm done. Good luck to you.

AbeFroman said:

Oh I see. I clarify what I said regardong constantly feeding nutrients and now you're caling me a liar.

Also now after you admit you posted hand picked pictures of plants with obvious issues they suddenly don't really have issues and it's a matter of me recognising the color of particular strains. I see where this is going...

You also clearly don't recognise how soiless mediums work. So what if he has fed it twice already! You go ahead and feed once or whatever you do and wait until they look hungry or starving like your pictures before you feed again. I would stick with dwc if I were you.

Since you think that blotch of necrosis with yellowing around it that just showing on the first set of true leaves (that's not a cotyledon fyi) is actually nutrient burn I'm done. Good luck to you.

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I stated I picked pictures of plants gradually starting to show deficiencies. And also pretty sure I was clear about "starting to fade" in the first picture I posted in that post if you want to read back. I think that blotch is lockout because he has a seedling he's fed "several times" showing a p deff. Seedling don't get p deff from being fed multiple times at that size. They show blotchy deficiencies because the soil(media) is over saturated with nutrients it does not want or need so it locks out weird shit. Like the ops plant pictured. Based on the look of that any and the information given, that plant is showing a deficiency due to lockout. Not being underfed.

I don't think I called you a liar, I think I said you lied. Which is different, and you did. If you want me to go back and quote both of your statements so you can see where you lied I can do that. Unless you're stating you never said that you "never let your plants get to that condition, from cradle to final flush". When in fact, if you flush, you absolutely do show exactly the deficiency the two I posted are. And you would see it onset gradually like I stated because your media is balanced. Or it's not and that why you think this underfed...


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Also, do you have a reason for flushing or is that just something someone told you to do at somepoint and you're still in the habit?


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kmog33 said:

I stated I picked pictures of plants gradually starting to show deficiencies. And also pretty sure I was clear about "starting to fade" in the first picture I posted in that post if you want to read back. I think that blotch is lockout because he has a seedling he's fed "several times" showing a p deff. Seedling don't get p deff from being fed multiple times at that size. They show blotchy deficiencies because the soil is over saturated with nutrients it does not want or need so it locks out weird shit. Like the ops plant pictured. Based on the look of that any and the information given, that plant is showing a deficiency due to lockout. Not being underfed.

I don't think I called you a liar, I think I said you lied. Which is different, and you did. If you want me to go ball and quote both of your statements so you can see where you lied I can do that. Unless you're stating you never said that you "never let your plants get to that condition, from cradle to final flush". When in fact, if you flush, you absolutely do show exactly the deficiency the two I posted are. And you would see it onset gradually like I stated because your media is balanced. Or it's not and that why you think this underfed...


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Click to expand...

Good ahead and quote me if you want. I already said my intent was that I meant from when they start to to when I begin my flush. Of course when I flush I see deficiencies and my plants and they will start to look like your pictures of a plant in its 1st -2nd week of flower. Otherwise I would have said from the cradle to the grave.

So you said I lied but that's not calling me a liar? Semantics much?