3 Questions (Bloom, Air Bubbles, Ph & EC Inconsistencies) + Flowering Pics

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by BadlyDrawnBoy, Aug 31, 2017.


    BadlyDrawnBoy Active Member

    1. I'm noticing that when I add Bloom nutes (AN nutes ph perfect 3 part base kit), the ppm/EC reads much lower than when I add grow & micro in the same amounts. It is a very noticeable difference in reading, with EC readings rising less when adding bloom nutes, x3 + times more when adding micro or grow, independently, in the same amount as the bloom. Any reason for this?

    2. I've found that when I place the tds meter for a reading right above air bubbles, the reading is much different than when I place it over stagnant water. I don't notice this variation with a ph pen, only the tds. Because it is a 5 gallon bucket and there is only so much space to take a reading, as the lid is only moved slightly to the side for me to gain entrance to the water, it is difficult to get the tds in stagnant water all the time. The fact that there are two different readings from bubble to stagnant also has me wondering which is accurate. The reading above the bubbles jumps around a lot and sometimes won't finalize a reading, so I'm assuming stagnant water is more accurate.

    Or maybe this isn't supposed to happen, and my tds meter is shit lol....Which I'm beginning to wonder about, as I'm getting readings all over the place....

    For example... Two different readings this morning, same bucket, within 30 seconds of each reading...I got 1250 EC, then 1089 EC. It stabilized on 1089 EC each time after that, but why the high flux in the first reading?

    Yesterdays number, and it always seems to be worse in the indica bucket, was all over the place....I took multiple readings just to see how much flux there actually was and how long it would take to stabilize.. This is what I got...

    1304/1238/1117/1400/1391/1121/1051/1346/1357/1357 (It stabilized on 1357 thereafter)

    I'm thinking I should buy a new tds pen. This one is just over a month old, unfortunately beyond it's return window.

    3. I have two buckets, one for the indica plant and the other for the sativa. I have been seeing this for over a month, where 1/4 the amount of ph down is needed in the sativa res than in the indica, to reach the same result. Usually, the ph will read 6.0 in the morning. I put very little ph down in the sativa res to bring it to 5.7 or 5.8. Always, the indica takes much more, starting from 6.0, and needing a considerable more amount to get it to 5.7 or 5.8. What could be the reason for this?

    20170831_101339.jpg 20170831_101446.jpg 20170831_101405.jpg 20170831_101320.jpg 20170831_101524.jpg

    You can see in the 3rd photo how the main stalk (or root?) of the sativa is bent around, not straight. It's so thick and twisted, like a finger folded over into the palm. The plant during germination got turned around in the soil, growing downward and then coming back up. Stayed that way all the way through it's lifespan.

    Lots of nute burn on the sativa, though she seems to be doing alright. Just starting to see it on the indica too, for the first time, yet my nute readings are low and i'm feeding very little.

    Everything is coming along though, even if slowly. This is day 31 flowering for both plants. I expected more bud size by now, but everything about this grow has been delayed it feels like. I'm thinking the harvest will be well beyond the 60 day mark. The sativa especially, she's only now began showing decent buds.

    neckpod Well-Known Member

    Looking good pal, why do you ph down from 6? ph 6 is what i get using AN ph perfect.

    Between 5.8 and 6.2 is the sweet spot, IMO ph 6 is bang in the middle of that so i wouldn't touch it unless it goes above 6.3. ( i haven't used any ph up or down with AN nutes but i use the sensi grow and bloom a and b.

    Can you not scoop some nutes out into a clean class and do your measuring in that instead of doing it in the bucket?

    I have found that 1200 to 1400ppm with a 600w light is just too high and I have burnt a few plant at these levels, Maybe with a 1000w above them they would take the higher ppm? I peak at about 1100 max at week 4/5.
    i think the lower ppm with bloom is down to much less N in the bloom bottle than the grow and overall it just has less salts than the grow but i could be wrong.

    Happy Growing

    BadlyDrawnBoy Active Member

    Yeah I may not have to adjust the ph so precisely with AN, but I'm not using RO water, and originally I was getting some nutrient deficiency issues (though my tap ph was above 8). So i've been adjusting just to make sure. I've been using ph up more now though, 5 weeks in flower, gettting ph down spikes and then needing to raise it up from the low 5's.

    That's a great idea to scoop some water out and measure it in that. I may do that.

    I've got two 400w led lights, one per plant. I'm measuring EC, not ppm, and my EC on both plants is now below 1000. Not sure what that is in ppm, but very low.

    That makes sense about the bloom. It really doesn't make much adjustment to the readings when I add it. It does, just minimal. Always makes me think I can just keep adding more of it without repercussions. But nute burn happens very low with these plants. They're light eaters for sure.

    neckpod Well-Known Member

    The scale your using sounds more like ppm? Ec usually 0.0 to say 3.
    3 being 2100 ppm .
    I use tds and as said before 1000 to 1100 ppm I find plenty.

    Week 6 now for me 4 cookies lush which stink like crazy, 1 bubblegummer and a blueberry cheesecake.
    Loving the cookies although it's been a bitch with nute burn and cal def.
    I also use tap water only 40ppm here so still need calmag.

    I find the more power you give them light wise the more they take up with regards nutes strength and quantity.

    Don't know how powerful your lights are but my 6 plants drink prob 70l total a week peek flower maybe more. But temps have gone to 28c 29c once or twice.


    BadlyDrawnBoy Active Member

    It's 4 numbers when I get EC readings, just like it is with ppm. I think usually people will round and add a decimal, that is why it usually looks the way it does. Like 1234 would be 1.2

    I'm using well water and the plants seem fine with it. But yeah the starting ppm with it is 180 lol. No calmag needed here

    I'd like to get some more powerful lights. I bought these because it was my first grow and I just wanted something to start with. It's better than cfl and the plants seem fine with it, but there is slower growth than it would be with a hps or even more powerful led. I'm trying not to go too far into energy consumption and raising energy bill prices each month. I don't know, we'll see. A 400w hps would be ideal, but then I'd probably need to run an ac as well.

    Yeah my plants drink about a gallon a day each, maybe a bit less. I've been watering three times a day, topping off, mainly so I can raise the ph naturally with the water and not have to keep adding ph up, even though I usually still do.

    I'm growing Aurora Indica and Rasberry Cough from Nirvana seeds. The tent smells terribly fruity and sweet. It is quite heavenly lol. I'm anxious to expand my seed collection gradually and try some other strains in later grows. I just wanted a strong sativa and strong indica to start.
    neckpod likes this.

    neckpod Well-Known Member

    Rasberry Cough sounds lovely pal but sativa's grow too big for my setup being in a tent only 2m tall, Tried purple haze last and it didn't well really just too tall so keep to 50/50 or more indica type plants. The bubblegummer from female seeds is a good size and thinking of running all that next, prob 8 in my 2.4 x 1.2 x 2 tent.

    What day time temps to you get?
    Just cooled right off here only 16 deg C here today so my fans are just ticking over and although i am currently at work i found a cheap way to remotely monitor temps/humidity and nute temps, it auto shuts down a light if things get to hot. all done though an app on my phone. £18 each Sonoff wifi switch.

    As temps are not gonna be an issue for me over the next 8 months i have been playing around with the idea of maybe 2 x 1000w 400v de upgrade but that kind of power kinda scares me haha you can crank them to 1200w each on a super setting as well. Booom haha
    Anon Emaus

    Anon Emaus Well-Known Member

    The bubbles bouncing your reading around is normal, always has happened for me. I always just try to find the most stagnant water possible. The volume of one nutrient vs the same volume of another nutrient being different ppms totally makes sense. It's like having 1ml of RO water and 1ml of nutrients, obviously the nutrients are going to give you the higher ppm even though its the same volume. Same exact thing with 1 nutrient vs another.

    The only thing I've found to cause differences in the amount of PH down or up that has to be used is dependent on the amount of PPM's in the water overall. So if your 2 buckets read the same PPM yet 1 bucket takes 1ml to move the PH 1 point vs 2ml to move the PH 1 point then you have me stumped. However is your indica consistently has a higher ppm than that makes sense. The higher the PPM the more PH down you will need and vic versa.

    BadlyDrawnBoy Active Member

    I was concerned about the sativa size too. The seedling got funky right from the start though, and like i said up above and in the photos, you can see the main strem/root is actually warped around like a closed hand, grown within itself. So the plant didn't get very high. Yet the canopy above is a pretty even height and not super dense, so she is getting lots of light. It actually worked out quite well. I just love sativa highs, I'll always be growing them, despite their difficulties. My next grow I'm going to be topping and chopping and trying out a scrog attached to the bucket. That should help the height situation.

    It stay around 73 F in the tent. Drops down to probably 70 or below at night. I'm concerned using a lot of light power also. I actually have a 1000w hps bulb and ballast from back in the early 2000s. I'm scared to run it because I just don't trust hot things that can burn my house down lol. I'd rather do led and get less harvest and slower growth than risk a dead house and myself in prison. Plus I don't want my electrical bills skyrocketing. I don't know, maybe some day a nice 400w would be perfect, just for a few plants. Right now led is fine.

    That makes sense, I was sort of assuming that, about the differences in nutrient ppms. I should take a reading of each bottle to understand where they sit.

    The sativa is a bit lower ppm than the indica, but not terribly much. The sativa drops a lot further down in ph, and it takes a lot less ph up to bring it back lol. I don't understand, but I guess it's not a big deal, they look good. This morning I added water and did the morning routine, brought it up from 5.0 to 5.8 with just fresh water. This afternoon I checked, it was down to 4.6. Topped off with no more than 1/8 gallon...all the way up to 5.9! Indica had only dropped to 5.4, added the same amount of water to the bucket as I did the sativa, and it only went to 5.7. It's pretty bizarre lol. Sometimes the fresh water brings the ph up so quick that it hits just the right ph zone, like it did this afternoon. Other times, I'll add water, and it will still be sitting lower than I want. Dunno
    neckpod likes this.
    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    Why are you adjusting PH at all with ph perfect? Isn't the ideal based on the advanced science of AN using a concoction that allows nute uptake at any ph and not that it will adjust the PH? Sorry I'm not up on PH perfect nutes work, just way to pricey for myself and I didn't see a difference in plant growth from the cheap stuff I use. And yup bibles fuck up the reading, get a syringe and stick a piece of air hose on it to take samples, works great.

    BadlyDrawnBoy Active Member

    I'm not using RO water, so the ph perfect doesn't work so perfect. Some have said still don't adjust it, even if not using RO, while others say you must still adjust it. Personally, I had some issues right in the beginning, when I let my tap ph ride as it was, and it was near or right above 8 ph. The plants started showing some deficiencies. So I began adjusting to 5.8ish every day and all has been well. I probably could let it ride between 5 and 7 and all would be fine, but I've gotten in the habit now of adjusting, and coming into 6 week flower here, I don't want to begin messing with what has been working. Next grow I plan to switch nute formulas
    Budley Doright likes this.

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