4x4 light for $1,000

KoBo77

Member
I have the 465w pro perfect size for a 4x4 and not an over kill on umol/s, I am glad I didn't go with the 600w or I wouldn't have enough space for hang height, I would of had to grow bonsai plants haha. I think that is the main problem with people buying LED's they go over kill on umol/s without running c02. My 465W pro has an efficiency od 2.7umol/j and ppfd of 1256. You only need 600-800 umol/s for phat buds. 1000 if you use c02.
How's this light doing for you still? I am just setting up a 4x4 and am being told I have to go 600w light for that size but I felt the same as your post states here and have been looking at this exact light.
 

Patriots781

Active Member
Ya I went with 780 watts nd it is deff overkill I have a 240 watt in a 32x32x32 and I can only turn the light up to 50 percent
 

Patriots781

Active Member
Theres ones now you can play with the blue and red settings from your phone it's pretty crazy mine hooks up to an app but I shpuld have gotten the light I think it's raging kush you can adjust the blue and red leds its on that video I posted but mine has a dimer and timer its on 25 percent during veg so it aaves in electricity alone on a couple veg cycles over hps
 

KoBo77

Member
Theres ones now you can play with the blue and red settings from your phone it's pretty crazy mine hooks up to an app but I shpuld have gotten the light I think it's raging kush you can adjust the blue and red leds its on that video I posted but mine has a dimer and timer its on 25 percent during veg so it aaves in electricity alone on a couple veg cycles over hps
I will check it out too....I just keep going further down the rabbit hole
 

KoBo77

Member
I am messaging manufacturers as well to see what they say for guidance on the right size light for my setup. Let's see who's honest and who's salesman lol
 

UpstateRecGrower

Well-Known Member
I have the 465w pro perfect size for a 4x4 and not an over kill on umol/s, I am glad I didn't go with the 600w or I wouldn't have enough space for hang height, I would of had to grow bonsai plants haha. I think that is the main problem with people buying LED's they go over kill on umol/s without running c02. My 465W pro has an efficiency od 2.7umol/j and ppfd of 1256. You only need 600-800 umol/s for phat buds. 1000 if you use c02.
465 watts at 2.7 uMol/j in a 4x4 is only 843ppfd before figuring wall losses
 

KoBo77

Member
465 watts at 2.7 uMol/j in a 4x4 is only 843ppfd before figuring wall losses
So plants peak at 700ppfd/m2/second which comes to a DLI of 30.24moles/m2/day without any co2 enrichment. So the goal is to hit a minimum of 30 DLI I believe this checks that box and anything over this ppfd in that space is a waste of energy unless I were to add co2, then the plants peak at 1500ppfd. So I think this light would work well without any co2 enrichment but if adding in co2 to my grow u would be shorting my plants potential.
 

UpstateRecGrower

Well-Known Member
So plants peak at 700ppfd/m2/second which comes to a DLI of 30.24moles/m2/day without any co2 enrichment. So the goal is to hit a minimum of 30 DLI I believe this checks that box and anything over this ppfd in that space is a waste of energy unless I were to add co2, then the plants peak at 1500ppfd. So I think this light would work well without any co2 enrichment but if adding in co2 to my grow u would be shorting my plants potential.
Huh? Co2 shortening your plants potential? lol. stop listening to bro-science. 700-800 ppfd will certainly grow some dank weed, just not as much as 1000ppfd would. If you're a new grower I wouldn't worry about anything more than 700-800 ppfd..
 

UpstateRecGrower

Well-Known Member
So the goal is to hit a minimum of 30 DLI I believe this checks that box and anything over this ppfd in that space is a waste of energy unless I were to add co2
That's also highly incorrect. Anything over 800 ppfd is a waste unless you add co2? Not even remotely true..
 

KoBo77

Member
Huh? Co2 shortening your plants potential? lol. stop listening to bro-science. 700-800 ppfd will certainly grow some dank weed, just not as much as 1000ppfd would. If you're a new grower I wouldn't worry about anything more than 700-800 ppfd..
No other way around, lack of co2 shortening the plants potential.
 

KoBo77

Member
Here I will post all that was wrote that I am getting this from. Mind you I may also be misinterpreting this and is why I was asking questions about this light. Give me just a second...
 

KoBo77

Member
Here I will post all that was wrote that I am getting this from. Mind you I may also be misinterpreting this and is why I was asking questions about this light. Give me just a second...
This is a quote from someone else's knowledge and teaching that I am pasting here....
Plants peak at 1500 umoles/m²/second. A 1000w HPS using a digi ballast with an eye hortilux super HPS puts out around 1928 ppfd dead center of the broadcast area at 18".

Whats more important is the DLI. That's Daily Light Integral. That's the amount of photons received over a 24 hr period in a square meter. So using the chart (https://growace.com/blog/the-best-hps-grow-bulb-test-comparing-6-brands-on-par-output/) for the ppfd output of a 1000w Eye Hortilux HPS (at 27") we can calculate the DLI. Mind you our results are a rough estimate due to the testing being done at a weird height of 27" and calculated in. 4' x 4' area instead of a 3' x 3' area. But anyways. Add up all the numbers and we get roughly 6370 based off the 9 measurements taken. Average this out. 6370 ÷ 9 = 707 umoles/m²/second. So we take this reading and multiply it by 3,600(seconds in an HR) x hrs of light (well use 12) and divide that by 1 million (number of moles in a umole) to get an estimated DLI.

So well start with the 12 hr DLI for a 1000w HPS;
707 x 3600 = 2,545,200
2,545,200 x 12 = 30,542,200
30,542,200 ÷ 1,000,000 = 30.542

30.542 moles/m²/day is the DLI of a single 1000w HPS in a 4' x 4' area during flower.

Now lets check out the ViparSpectra PAR600(A pretty common 600w LED) the PAR footprint for a 3'x3' can easily be found for this particular light. Add all the PPFD readings together and we get 4640. Now there were 21 readings. So 4640 ÷ 21 = 221 (220.95 to be precise).

So well only do the DLI for 12 hrs:
221 × 3600 = 795,600
795,600 × 12 = 9,547,200
9,547,200 ÷ 1,000,000 = 9.54

9.54 moles/m²/day is the DLI of a single PAR600 LED in a 3' x 3' area during Flower. It'd take 4 of these to touch a single 1000w HPS.

Lets Check out the ChilLED 400w Gen 2. Another LED. They dont give a PAR footprint for their product but instead a Sphere Test. These results show that this light puts out 1043.28 PPFD. So we'll use that number as the sphere is a 60" diameter.

1043 × 3600 = 3,754,800
3,754,800 x 12 = 45,057,600
45,057,600 ÷ 1,000,000 = 45.05

45.05 moles/m²/day is the DLI of a single ChilLED 400w LED in a 3' x 3' area in flower. One will effectively replace a 1000w HPS.

Now lets use the Fluence SpyderX. They tote 909 PPFD across the canopy. They're pretty accurate with this so well use 909.

909 x 3600 = 3,272,400
3,272,400 x 12 = 39,268,800
39,268,800 ÷ 1,000,000 = 39.26

39.26 moles/m²/day is the DLI of a single Fluence SpiderX LED in a 3' x 3' area in flower. One will effectively replace a 1000w HPS.

Lets check the PlatinumLED P600. They used to advertise a PAR footprint but no longer do and I cannot find it. They only offer the central PPFD reading. At 18" this is 1500 PPFD. I wont be using this specific ppfd reading as it isn't fully accurate in my opinion. I will remove a full 1/3 of that as I think that is fair based on the HPS readings at 27" for the center and that the average was 700. That's about 30% decrease.

1000 × 3600 = 3,600,000
3,600,000 x 12 = 43,200,000
43,200,000 ÷ 1,000,000 = 43.2

43.2 moles/m²/day is the DLI of a single PlatinumLED in a 3' x 3' are in flower. One will effectively replace a 1000w HPS.

Now well go with sunlight yay!
The sun has an average ppfd on a clear day of 750. Mind you this varries greatly based on weather, airborne particles and geographical location as well as elevation.

750 x 3600 = 2,700,000
2,700,000 x 12 = 32,400,000
32,400,000 ÷ 1,000,000 = 32.4

32.4 moles/m²/day is the DLI of the sun.

Now for the standard of 1500 umoles/m²/second that plants peak at. As in this is roughly the highest number plants can use. And this is with a perfect environment and CO2 levels at 1000ppm.

1500 x 3600 = 5,400,000
5,400,000 x 12 = 64,800,00
64,800,000 ÷ 1,000,000 = 64.8

64.8 moles/m²/day is the peak DLI in a 3' x 3' area for plants in prime conditions. More than double what a single HPS can produce.

As long as the manufacturer provides you with a PPFD reading or a 3rd party has then you can very easily calculate the DLI. This will give you a better idea of how the light will perform. Also take into consideration the wattage used. Sure a 1000w HPS has a pretty high Number of 30+ but what about heat?? What's the cost of the light? Hows the Spectrum? Expected Lifespan? Whats the wattage draw? How effecient is the light (PPFD per watt)?

The higher the DLI the better. But mind you without CO2 enrichment plants peak at around 700ppfd/m²/second. Which comes out to a DLI of 30.24 moles/m²/day. Your goal is to hit 30+ DLI regardless of your lighting. This is just a baseline and is not 100% accurate as lots of manufacturers do not supply this info and it can be very difficult to locate.
 

UpstateRecGrower

Well-Known Member
No other way around, lack of co2 shortening the plants potential.
I thought you were implying that using co2 shortens the plants potential. Anyways.. In a high light situation yes co2 will give you a higher yield but it's not necessary, you can still use high light levels with ambient co2 levels to get a higher yield than you would have with lower light levels..
 
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