Advanced Lighting Spectrums for T5 Floro and LED

Fonzarelli

Active Member
I've been doing multiple, multiple tests for the last few months with about 10 different T5 fixtures, LEDs and other light sources to understand what the different wavelengths do for cannabis strains. The tests are not done(probably never will be), but I've been able to at least come up with a few solid answers since there is so little information out there that is specifically designed around the herb.

First off, it is possible to grow really really good meds using only blue 460nm and red 660nm wavelengths. It just doesn't work for every strain. The ratios I have found to work the best(Weezard would agree) 3:1 for Veg, or 2:1 for shorter internode spacing, and 5:1 for flower, or 4:1 for shorter internode spacing.

I believe UVb light can be helpful for terpene production in the last few weeks of budding to increase flavor, smell, potency, but are useless anytime before the last 3 weeks of flower. This goes for any light wave lower than 450nm. Also, it has been found that 450nm will increase terpene/thc production as it is close to the deep blue wavelength. So it really is not necessary to add UVb into your grow. Your eyes will thank me.

I have found that different strains react very differently to the color of the overall blend of light source. This information has been backed up by others and is tried and true:

Sativa's prefer more blue light throughout the veg cycle and into the flower cycle. They can handle an increase of blue light without presenting any kind of weird growth issues, such as mutated twisted leaves, or irregular growth patterns.

Indica's prefer the red side of the spectrum. I found my Indica's to be very overly sensitive to blue wavelengths when used in a high ratio. The abundance of blue light will cause irregular growth patterns and will decrease yield dramatically if not corrected. They can also handle more red during flowering without getting over driven by the deeper red wavelengths.

There are a lot of misconceptions on the internet about the proper spectrum. The charts for photosynthesis and light absorption are based on Algae and the pigments and chemicals themselves within the plant. Trying to use the information for cannabis can get a little sketchy at times.

I have found it to be true that 630nm light can be nicely substituted for 660nm during the veg cycle. Although it is not as rapidly absorbed as the deeper red, it still has plenty of red energy that the plants use in abundance. I would at least try to keep a little 660nm in your light spectrum during the veg cycle. Your plants will thank you later. Having 630nm light in your spectrum throughout the whole growth cycle can be useful if you have and abundance of deep red light. The 630nm wavelength will balance out an over-abundance of 660nm wavelength. If there is more 660nm light than the plants can handle, photosynthesis will shut down and your plants will take on a phosphorus lockout look. Leaves get thick, turn yellow and claw. Growth slows and stems become purple. This is easily reversed by backing the red wavelengths off your spectrum a little. Also, it can be fixed by raising your lights.

Although many still disagree, 550nm green wavelengths can be helpful for some cannabis strains. When light irradiation is high(much red spectrum) the green will help the plants absorb the red wavelengths more efficiently. I think this is similar to how the 630nm wavelength helps to balance out the 660nm and slightly higher wavelengths. I've heard some people call the 550nm "the catalyst" of spectrum.

The 730nm wavelength has been known for some time to help generate Pfr more rapidly when in the flower cycle. Having 730nm in your light source during flower will speed up the budding process and assist with calyx production and growth rate. It has also been known for some time that in combination with deep red(660-680) will increase growth speed 2 fold.

T5 High Output Floro's:

There are a few German manufacturer's and a few U.S. ones that have been making T5 colored tubes for the aquarium industry for quite some time. The Sylvania Gro-Lux T5 is one good example. When properly blended, the floro tubes can achieve very closely to what the most latest LED technology has done. By increasing the wavelengths highly absorbed by cannabis plants, growth, health and quality are all increased as well as a huge power savings for you. The only drawback to the T5's are the lack of penetration since it is not a focused light beam. Reflectors can help some, but LEDs still have the upper hand.

LEDs:

As newer technology is being released in the LED world, we are seeing higher powered LEDs, dense matrix arrays, and an increase in overall efficiency. This is good. If you want to grow tall bushes and trees, the 10w LEDs are the ticket. If you are into building your own LED fixture then this thread is for you. Proper wavelength blending is of the utmost importance when dealing with so few High Power LEDs on a single panel.

This thread's focus will mainly be about light spectrum and other people's experiences with their own blends of wavelengths and not so much the "type" of light source. Keep the arguing about T5 vs. LED or HID to a minimum please. They are all fine sources of light. Light is light no matter what you may think.

Sit back, relax and you will see the light.
 

bluntmassa1

Well-Known Member
with all your testing have you found one that stands up to the hid lights ? thats the only way I would consider running t5's or led's although I have thought about led for veg but I just don't think it will compare to the MH.
 

mrcourios

Member
Would you give me your opinion on my lamp selection for a T5 4x4 lamp fixture.
For Veg either 2 ZooMed Flora Suns, 1 Wave Point Blue Wave and 1 Reef Wave or instead of the Wave Points use 1 UVL Super Actinic and 1 UVL 454 Ultra Blue.
For Flower 2 ZooMed Flora Suns and 2 UVL Red Suns.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
with all your testing have you found one that stands up to the hid lights ? thats the only way I would consider running t5's or led's although I have thought about led for veg but I just don't think it will compare to the MH.
No doubt you have seen countless threads using inferior T5 and especially LEDs. Both are capable of bettering MHs, it's just that commercial offerings are way behind the tech.

Unfortunately, RIU is having some issues, both with posting comments and uploading photos, or I would have posted a few pics of my HO T5s that are roughly one week from harvest. Thought it was going to be over this past weekend, but the trics aren't turning amber just yet. Last Friday's pics are in my journal



 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I don't agree with all Fonz says in his opening comments, but he is in the ball park.

Places we diverge

1. All plants need/want some 500-600 nms. Combined they act as a catalyst to the other ends of the spectrum
2. Too much 660 can be overkill during veg. 630 is better all the way through, however, during mid-late flower then crank up the 660
3. Not sold on 10w LEDs for trees. rhe potential for bleaching is high. For sure you will have to keep the fixture a lot higher above the canopy. Pretty sure 3-5 watt supplemented with 1-3w side lighting will perform as well or better.

As far as which strain prefers more red than blue, I think it's the opposite. Indicas grow higher above the equator where there is less red, the opposite for Sats
. NOW, it could be because both are somewhat lacking in the respective spectrums that they want/need them and respond positively. Dunno. Anybody?

LEDs

The new CREEs Neutral and Warm white may well be all one needs from seedling to harvest. There is a least one grower on another site doing a grow now. The reason why it hasn't been done before was efficiency, but that has taken a giant leap forward. Others are sure to follow

PSUAGRO found a new Osram aquarium light that is designed more like a light bulb- the leds are mounted on a disc (think bulb) that screws/unscrews into a base that is part of the fixture. At last, the ultimate in flexibility
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
with all your testing have you found one that stands up to the hid lights ? thats the only way I would consider running t5's or led's although I have thought about led for veg but I just don't think it will compare to the MH.
250w of high power LEDs will outmatch a 400w and maybe a 600w MH or HPS as long as it is built correctly. I believe you would need at least 400w of LEDs to outmatch a 1000w HID. At that point the expense makes it unreasonable unless you DIY. I have found it to be pretty close to 2:1 in favor of fine tuned spectrum LED light. There are a lot of B.S. LED grow lights on the market and it has been confusing a lot of people. Right now, the best way to grow with LEDs is to DIY. There are a few companies using 5w high power LEDs but the real mccoy is in the 10w and higher LEDs. The higher the power the more penetration you get from any light source.

When LED lighting first came out I knew it was a scam, but things have changed now with the high power LEDs.

Floro's will grow higher quality, shorter, healthier plants during the veg stage as long as you fine tune the light spectrum using special T5 lamps. Since the light from floro's does not penetrate as much as HID lights do, it makes it almost impossible to grow larger trees with them. For a SOG setup, I would choose floro's over HID in a second. If VHO floro's lasted a long time I would even go that route, but they do not last much longer than 6 months. At $10-$20 a pop for fancy T5 VHO lamps, it's not worth it. You can overdrive any T5 HO lamp in a VHO fixture, but it will decrease the life of the lamp in half. I have found there to be no difference between HO and VHO as far as build quality goes. VHO is a labeling scam AFAIK.

The reason you can outmatch HID lighting watt to watt with LEDs is because the spectrum is fine tuned for light absorption. MH have an abundance of green and yellow light and very very little deep red. Cannabis plants do not use green and yellow light in abundance. A lot of the light from MH is wasted photons. Plants are mostly responding to the high quantity of blue light in MH's. For example, I have done a test combining 128w of Deep red LED light with a 175w 6.5k MH and I got the most outstanding growth through veg AND into flower.

I have actually been flowering with a 6.5k 175w metal halide when in combination with 128w of Kessil 128w deep red LED light. In no way do I want to promote Kessil LED lights, but they do make for a convenient source of supplemental lighting. I would compare my 175w MH + 128w deep red LED setup to a 600w HPS light except for the fact that my plants do not stretch and have much more color, smell and flavor in the buds.

You can do amazing things when fine tuning the spectrum with any light source. LEDs are not a special type of light. Remember, light is light no matter what the source.
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
1. All plants need/want some 500-600 nms. Combined they act as a catalyst to the other ends of the spectrum
I said this in the opening post already. I even used your word "catalyst."
2. Too much 660 can be overkill during veg. 630 is better all the way through, however, during mid-late flower then crank up the 660
As long as your spectrum is balanced out with the proper amount of blue light, 660nm will AWAYS absorb more efficiently than 630nm. It's a fact. 630nm light will help to balance out the spectrum if there is an over-abundance of 660nm. This is where you will see "bleaching" is when the spectrum is not balanced out properly.
3. Not sold on 10w LEDs for trees. rhe potential for bleaching is high. For sure you will have to keep the fixture a lot higher above the canopy. Pretty sure 3-5 watt supplemented with 1-3w side lighting will perform as well or better.
This statement is completely false. Bleaching? This is what happens when your spectrum is improperly balanced with the wrong wavelengths. How do you know this will happen with 10w LEDs specifically? Have you done a DIY already? I have seen the best growth so far with 15w LEDs and higher. People are even using 80w and higher dense matrix LEDs and having outstanding growth with them. They are growing trees with them because they can penetrate through the canopy.

As far as which strain prefers more red than blue, I think it's the opposite. Indicas grow higher above the equator where there is less red, the opposite for Sats. NOW, it could be because both are somewhat lacking in the respective spectrums that they want/need them and respond positively. Dunno. Anybody?
You "think" it's the opposite, but you are wrong. Think about how all terrestrial plants absorb the blue and red wavelengths more efficiently than the green and yellow wavelengths. It's because there is less of the red and blue in the Sun's spectrum, that's why plants absorb it more efficiently. Indica's grow higher above the equator so there will be an abundance of BLUE light. This is why they absorb RED light more efficiently. Opposite for Sativas. I've done the testing already so please try it first before saying how it is. My Cali-O Sativa cannot get enough blue light, but when there is more red, the leaves get mottled and growth stops. This has been backed up by others.

The new CREEs Neutral and Warm white may well be all one needs from seedling to harvest. There is a least one grower on another site doing a grow now. The reason why it hasn't been done before was efficiency, but that has taken a giant leap forward
I've seen this thread you are talking about. They are using 80w high powered dense matrix LED lights and higher. The reason they are having such good results with them is because THEY ARE 80w from a single point light source. The reason the neutral and warm white work is because of the spectrum. Have you even seen the spectral output of them? It's one giant spike at 460nm or 440nm(depending on type) and then a huge curve from 550nm up to 740nm. They still waste photons however, due to the abundance of green and yellow light in the spectrum, but they do cover the whole spectrum unlike HPS. You don't need more green and yellow in your spectrum, you need more red and deep red. Yes, the warm whites and neutrals work on their own, but so does a HPS and MH.

I think you need to read more closely to fully understand and do more research. I've already seen proof that backs up what I said so it's no longer a theory. Any time you fine tune your spectrum for your plants, you will achieve maximum growth potential.
 

bluntmassa1

Well-Known Member
250w of high power LEDs will outmatch a 400w and maybe a 600w MH or HPS as long as it is built correctly. I believe you would need at least 400w of LEDs to outmatch a 1000w HID. At that point the expense makes it unreasonable unless you DIY. I have found it to be pretty close to 2:1 in favor of fine tuned spectrum LED light. There are a lot of B.S. LED grow lights on the market and it has been confusing a lot of people. Right now, the best way to grow with LEDs is to DIY. There are a few companies using 5w high power LEDs but the real mccoy is in the 10w and higher LEDs. The higher the power the more penetration you get from any light source. When LED lighting first came out I knew it was a scam, but things have changed now with the high power LEDs. QUOTE]



I don't know I watched a video on youtube it was mr. blue goo he did a side by side grow he had 600 watt, 1,000 watt and leds and the buds from the led lights where noticebly smaller and not as tight even the ones directly under the lights so I'm really not convinced leds can do better. the guy grew them all the same way their was a slight difference between the 600 and 1,000 but a big difference with the leds you can search for it on youtube just search mr. blue goo led it should pop up
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
Would you give me your opinion on my lamp selection for a T5 4x4 lamp fixture.
For Veg either 2 ZooMed Flora Suns, 1 Wave Point Blue Wave and 1 Reef Wave or instead of the Wave Points use 1 UVL Super Actinic and 1 UVL 454 Ultra Blue.
For Flower 2 ZooMed Flora Suns and 2 UVL Red Suns.
First off, what strains are you growing? I have tried what you are suggesting doing with the same lamps. If you alternate florasun, 454, florasun, 454, it will work for sativas, but it's way more blue than you should be using. Florasuns are half blue, half red so that means your red/blue ratio will be 1:3 Red to Blue. You really want it to be the opposite. I would get the UVL 660's and use them. Right now I have a 4-lamp fixture with 2 UVL 660's, 1 florasun, 1 blue 454. It's doing really well. The ratio is around 2:1 Red to Blue. You can get by with the RedSuns in place of the 660nm, but getting some 660nm in your spectrum will really make your plants happy.

You need to look at the spectral output of your lamps you are using. You will see that there is little difference in between lamp manufacturers. Some lamps have a mix of pure blue along with a tri-band white spectrum. This helps to dull down the blue lamps as the pure blue lamps can easily dominate the spectrum in your fixture especially if you have no pure-red lamps in your fixture.
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
250w of high power LEDs will outmatch a 400w and maybe a 600w MH or HPS as long as it is built correctly. I believe you would need at least 400w of LEDs to outmatch a 1000w HID. At that point the expense makes it unreasonable unless you DIY. I have found it to be pretty close to 2:1 in favor of fine tuned spectrum LED light. There are a lot of B.S. LED grow lights on the market and it has been confusing a lot of people. Right now, the best way to grow with LEDs is to DIY. There are a few companies using 5w high power LEDs but the real mccoy is in the 10w and higher LEDs. The higher the power the more penetration you get from any light source. When LED lighting first came out I knew it was a scam, but things have changed now with the high power LEDs. QUOTE]



I don't know I watched a video on youtube it was mr. blue goo he did a side by side grow he had 600 watt, 1,000 watt and leds and the buds from the led lights where noticebly smaller and not as tight even the ones directly under the lights so I'm really not convinced leds can do better. the guy grew them all the same way their was a slight difference between the 600 and 1,000 but a big difference with the leds you can search for it on youtube just search mr. blue goo led it should pop up
You can see the difference with your eyes. Whatever LED light he's using is blue heavy. Any idea what the red/blue ratio is on the LED fixtures he's using? For flowering you want at least a 5:1 red/blue ratio or you will get stunted growth in flowering. I will post photos of my DIY LED fixture when I get it completed so you can see what the proper light blend will look like if done correctly.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I said this in the opening post already. I even used your word "catalyst."

As long as your spectrum is balanced out with the proper amount of blue light, 660nm will AWAYS absorb more efficiently than 630nm. It's a fact. 630nm light will help to balance out the spectrum if there is an over-abundance of 660nm. This is where you will see "bleaching" is when the spectrum is not balanced out properly.

This statement is completely false. Bleaching? This is what happens when your spectrum is improperly balanced with the wrong wavelengths. How do you know this will happen with 10w LEDs specifically? Have you done a DIY already? I have seen the best growth so far with 15w LEDs and higher. People are even using 80w and higher dense matrix LEDs and having outstanding growth with them. They are growing trees with them because they can penetrate through the canopy.


You "think" it's the opposite, but you are wrong. Think about how all terrestrial plants absorb the blue and red wavelengths more efficiently than the green and yellow wavelengths. It's because there is less of the red and blue in the Sun's spectrum, that's why plants absorb it more efficiently. Indica's grow higher above the equator so there will be an abundance of BLUE light. This is why they absorb RED light more efficiently. Opposite for Sativas. I've done the testing already so please try it first before saying how it is. My Cali-O Sativa cannot get enough blue light, but when there is more red, the leaves get mottled and growth stops. This has been backed up by others.


I've seen this thread you are talking about. They are using 80w high powered dense matrix LED lights and higher. The reason they are having such good results with them is because THEY ARE 80w from a single point light source. The reason the neutral and warm white work is because of the spectrum. Have you even seen the spectral output of them? It's one giant spike at 460nm or 440nm(depending on type) and then a huge curve from 550nm up to 740nm. They still waste photons however, due to the abundance of green and yellow light in the spectrum, but they do cover the whole spectrum unlike HPS. You don't need more green and yellow in your spectrum, you need more red and deep red. Yes, the warm whites and neutrals work on their own, but so does a HPS and MH.

I think you need to read more closely to fully understand and do more research. I've already seen proof that backs up what I said so it's no longer a theory. Any time you fine tune your spectrum for your plants, you will achieve maximum growth potential.
As anyone reading this will see, we disagree on SOME things. First you said specifically 550 was the catalyst, not 500-600 as I have consistently stated. And it's 630 that 'aways' absorbs more than 660s, but these are nit pics. 630 without 660 will do a better job than the opposite, though both have a place at the table. That is extremist thinking, whereas all spectrums play a role.

You also told me to increase my w/d cycles in HPA, way beyond what worked, but I tried them for several weeks, before dropping way back to where I am now, and seeing better results than I did without experimenting. Meaning you were not 100% right, but neither were you 100% wrong.

You're learning a lot (and have learned a lot from me, as I from others) but making absolute statements here boxes you into a corner with no way out. And I know that is not your intention. No one I am aware of has taken the bull by the horns and tried as many T5 variables as you have. Kudos! And who gave you the idea for the title of this thread? ME
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
As anyone reading this will see, we disagree on SOME things. First you said specifically 550 was the catalyst, not 500-600 as I have consistently stated.
What I meant by 550nm is that it is a combination of green and yellow light. It's right in the middle of 500-600. I don't see why you would need to have a range between 500nm and 600nm to give you the same results as using 550nm. This is similar to the idea that you can get by with 460nm blue light instead of using a combination of 440nm and 480nm. I see little difference between using 550nm vs. 500-600nm. Plus, that whole spectrum range is already covered quite well by any white LED or tri-band T5 HO.
And it's 630 that 'aways' absorbs more than 660s,
That's funny you say this because in your last post you said not to make "absolute" statements. LOL
630 without 660 will do a better job than the opposite, though both have a place at the table.
This is where I draw the line and totally disagree. I think you need to experiment more with the 660nm wavelength and do more research. I have about 15 people that would also back me up on this. We also both need to keep in mind that certain strains will prefer extra 500-630nm wavelength. Maybe we need to make a new thread that only focuses on ONE STRAIN? Through my own research I am trying to find a middle ground of spectrum that "all strains" can enjoy.(If possible.)
You also told me to increase my w/d cycles in HPA, way beyond what worked, but I tried them for several weeks, before dropping way back to where I am now, and seeing better results than I did without experimenting. Meaning you were not 100% right, but neither were you 100% wrong.
What does this have to do with light spectrum? I merely told you the timing that some lettuce growers use for Aero, I didn't speak of it as an absolute. I made this quite clear many times in your thread. I said repeatedly that it was only a starting point. So basically you did exactly what I told you to do and you found your happy medium. Yeah, I'm guilty of not staying on topic in your thread as well, but try to keep it to a minimum, especially since this is only page 2.
You're learning a lot (and have learned a lot from me, as I from others) but making absolute statements here boxes you into a corner with no way out. And I know that is not your intention. No one I am aware of has taken the bull by the horns and tried as many T5 variables as you have. Kudos! And who gave you the idea for the title of this thread? ME
I tried your idea by using the Redsuns as the main red light spectrum in my fixture that I do not yet have 660nm lamps for yet. I needed to balance the blue in my fixture and it was the only pure Red lamp I could use. I noticed that the plants responded well, but I am still not convinced that 630nm is more ideal than 660nm. No freakin way. And the idea of this thread was a combination of you, Poly, and my own ideas as my other thread was not intended to be used for light spectrum analysis. You have already had your juice box here many times, I don't understand why you are trying to seek out this "credit" for so many things. LOL BTW, The majority of the learning I have received has been from biology, botany, physics, and quantum mechanics classes I took while in school. I am also learning a lot from the LED and T5 forums here, but only the minor details. I find it hard to believe that you know exactly "what" I have learned up to this point. :) I don't want this to come across as arrogance, but I would like to keep this type of talk to a minimum and focus on the topic at hand.

Feel free to experiment with as much 630nm wavelength as you want, but be sure to experiment with equal amounts of 660nm so that you can actually develop an accurate idea of what they do.

One reason I believe the 660nm wavelength to be such a good choice over any others is because it is smack dab in the middle between 630nm and 690nm.(Red and Deep Red) I believe 660nm has the capability to achieve the same results as combining 630nm and 690nm. In essence, it's the best of both worlds. As you can see from the chart below, the 630nm wavelength is actually closer to orange, not true red. Chlorophyll A peaks around 690nm while chlorophyll B peaks around 630nm. 660nm is conveniently right in the middle allowing a higher light absorption rate without having to use 2 different wavelengths.
 

kinetic

Well-Known Member
Until we can see this outmatched growth you guys seem to be proclaiming, you sound like knowledgeable sex ed teachers that are virgins.

One of the points made is that different strains respond better to different wavelenghts. Great. So if I want to grow my w.w. standard and have a led setup for it I would have to change out my setting if say I wanted to grow Mauii Wauii, And yet again if I wanted to throw some Cali Kush in my setup.

The great thing about my hid setup is that it just works. I'm chomping at the bit for some solid LED action, especially for flower. I do appreciate the effort.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Looks like uploading pics is working again.

This is various bud/cola pics of one hybrid Indica/Sat plant. from lowest branch to top she is ~ 3ft X 2 X 2. Flowered under 2/8 Zoomed + 2 Coral Waves + 3 Red Suns + one 660. The buds do not give at all when squeezed. Even the lowest buds are almost golf ball size and they are over 3ft from the bulbs


IMG_1034.jpgIMG_1035.jpgIMG_1036.jpgIMG_1033.jpg


This is from another site.

Something to chew on, regardless of lamp choice:
As one can see, the CREE Neutral White (I call it 'Goldilocks', because it's almost 'just right'
) has a RSPD that still allows nearly ~25% of its total power in the blue range (and plants only really 'need' ~8-10%), and more than 1/3 of which (i.e. the area under the curve) is over ~580nm or so (which has a Photosynthetic RS of over 90%!) - which is much better than even your typical 'Enhanced HPS'.

Couple that with strong white light (green-response chlorophyll extending throughout and deep into leaf structures, with a net effect at or near that of the (mostly) surface-level blue and reds), which also takes care of most of the ~660nm+ you actually need for photomorphogenesis - and you can get by with 630nm reds just fine.

(i.e. 630nm red is ~95% of the PSR of 660nm, AND they currently still have ~20-30% greater radiometric efficiency - as well as being cheaper than the deep reds - so there's more 'bang for the buck'):

 

mrcourios

Member
Alright after more reading I'm thinking my lamp order will consist of these.
Flora Sun
Aqua Sun
Red Sun
Coral Wave
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Pet most indicas like kushes nd blueberry originate from asia and middle east etc....Sativas originate below the equator, africa, south america etc.... We agree on that. In the U.S. we don't get any uvb or IR and not much deep red. In those countries where indicas originate, they do get that part of the spectrum from the sun.

So I think you got it backwards and fonz gets it right on that point...

Your girls are looking awesome
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
Until we can see this outmatched growth you guys seem to be proclaiming, you sound like knowledgeable sex ed teachers that are virgins.

One of the points made is that different strains respond better to different wavelenghts. Great. So if I want to grow my w.w. standard and have a led setup for it I would have to change out my setting if say I wanted to grow Mauii Wauii, And yet again if I wanted to throw some Cali Kush in my setup.

The great thing about my hid setup is that it just works. I'm chomping at the bit for some solid LED action, especially for flower. I do appreciate the effort.
This is why I'm growing multiple strains under the lights. Hopefully I can find a spectrum that all strains do well under that will still outshine HID in more than one way. I've seen phenomenal results using only neutral white LEDs mixed with Deep Red 660nm at almost a 50/50 ratio. I may end up going this route when all is said and done. Blue light is only needed in such small quantities for flowering that the white LEDs provide more than enough of it. I may just have to build multiple DIY LED fixtures. LOL

I've seen some amazing shit happen with the Florasun T5's mixed with 6500K white T5's at a 50/50 ratio so I know it works quite well. I've also done this with a 250w MH mixed with 128w of 630/660nm Red LEDs.

Just so everyone knows my best growth that I've ever seen so far from any of my tests have been from a combination of 250w MH 6.4k Sunpulse lamp and 4 of the Kessil h150 Red in a 2' x 2' cabinet. I used it through veg and through flower. I've never seen such healthy, lush, non-stretched out happy growth before. And the nice thing was that I didn't have to switch any lamps out at any point in time. I have a photo for comparison if anyone wants to see the difference between that mixture and a stand-alone 400w HPS. The plants are half the height, twice the thickness, and twice the bud size.
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
^^^^^^^^^The other test I did uses the 250w MH but with added blue light. This is where there was a division between strains. My Sativa's kept flowering very well and finished real nice under the added blue light and my Sour Diesel fell very short. The Sour D did much better under a 3k MH stand alone 1000w MH. Did better under the HPS as well. So it really does boil down to strain at some point towards the last 3 to 4 weeks of flower. I really am just trying to find the middle ground if possible.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
to be honest even though i am downsizing into one tent i am partly excited since i will be flowering under my t5 now... so i will have some more relevant info to put in on the subject in all honesty i think a 1 to 1 ratio is best with a few specialty bulbs mixed in (420nm coral wave redsun ect) honestly im starting to think the best setup would be almost all florasuns as far as general flowering of strains goes good reads guy i dont have much to add since you all are saying the same things but disagreeing on slight difference but none the less pertinent information. as far as MH goes well ask away i can tell you almost anyhing about them, you said you where using a 3000k mh fonz? what brand you have spectrum chart, to be honest there are few MH bulbs that should really be used for growing since they cover the most par of any bulbs. ratio wise cept LED
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
personally i see MH as a better bulb than HPS but not by itself for flower, but MH in combo with t5 which i was im having a tough time deciding between MH and HPS, sounds like a combo punch from hell since you could focus on reds more in your flouros and use the 580-630 nm from the MH as the catylst instead of HPS and ovee doinging the amount of red needed. or maybe vice versa more blue in the t5 and hps but i cant see these light doing anything for each other as far as interaction wise other than covering a broader spectrum and the added IR from hps
 
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