bodhi seeds

The Bud Whisperer

Well-Known Member
So a quick clarification, Genetic Drift is misused in the cannabis community. In science it refers to shifts in the gene pool when a portion of a population is suddenly removed, reducing genetic variation or shifting it towards certain mutations that survive the shift in lieu of the ones that disappear.

When people describe "genetic drift" in cannabis they're actually referring to epigenetics theory, which is a theory that questions whether you can force phenotypical changes to alter inheritable gene expressions without altering the actual genetic make up of an organism.

Im not a botanist so you'll have to bear with me a bit, but essentially the idea is that if a plant has a gene that isn't triggered, and then you force it to trigger so that it shows a different expression, will it's offspring show the new expression as well. The argument usually comes up in the cannabis world when discussing intersex traits due to the long held belief that if you force a plant to show intersex traits for breeding its offspring will be more likely to be intersex, but it could apply to the stress applied to trying to keep a plant alive and a certain size for an extended period. Essentially the idea is that you aren't changing the genetics, your just triggering a latent gene that was already there, changing the phenotype of the plant, and once that's done, any clone taken would obviously show the same phenotypical change.

It's all a theory at the moment, so I'm certainly not stating the above as factual, but I also think we need to keep an open mind on the discussion.

Ive been researching this a lot lately because I'm having a weird experience with my Mass Super Skunk cut. Mom underwent a really stressful period, then the next cutting I ran grew completely differently than the original. Same smell, same taste, but the structure and yield were worlds apart from the first couple runs. I attributed it to my growing so I tried again, but the same result. Now I'm flowering the mom and again, same result. The terps are the same as before, but the plants structure is completely different and the yield is immensely diminished. I'm still not sure what happened, but trying to figure it out basically taught me that I don't know half what I thought I did.

Anyways, sorry for the wall of words guys lol. Just obviously a topic I've had on my mind.

Edit: removed a couple posts I apparently stoney started and never posted lol
Thank you, this is an excellent clarification!
(I should have stayed in science class instead of ditching school to get drunk.)
 
Last edited:

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
I hope all are having a great Saturday. Gentle mist/sprinkle we so need. Filtered air for us allergy folks. And open the winders type temps.

Space monkeys are looking close to done here. Added a few watts of light to avoid PM that is rampant outside the greenhouse. No issues beyond my failing to rinse diatomaceous earth off way back.

They did not like heat over 98F. Humidity did not matter with adequate CFM. I maxed out my feed at 1050PPM before slight tip burn and claw.

Really close to GG4. Just tamer for growth parameters this run.

My 2 cents. I'll share what I think if needed. Peace. 003.jpg005.jpg006.jpg007.jpg008.jpg009.jpg
 

Cutkeeper

Active Member
So a quick clarification, Genetic Drift is misused in the cannabis community. In science it refers to shifts in the gene pool when a portion of a population is suddenly removed, reducing genetic variation or shifting it towards certain mutations that survive the shift in lieu of the ones that disappear.

When people describe "genetic drift" in cannabis they're actually referring to epigenetics theory, which is a theory that questions whether you can force phenotypical changes to alter inheritable gene expressions without altering the actual genetic make up of an organism.

Im not a botanist so you'll have to bear with me a bit, but essentially the idea is that if a plant has a gene that isn't triggered, and then you force it to trigger so that it shows a different expression, will it's offspring show the new expression as well. The argument usually comes up in the cannabis world when discussing intersex traits due to the long held belief that if you force a plant to show intersex traits for breeding its offspring will be more likely to be intersex, but it could apply to the stress applied to trying to keep a plant alive and a certain size for an extended period. Essentially the idea is that you aren't changing the genetics, your just triggering a latent gene that was already there, changing the phenotype of the plant, and once that's done, any clone taken would obviously show the same phenotypical change.

It's all a theory at the moment, so I'm certainly not stating the above as factual, but I also think we need to keep an open mind on the discussion.

Ive been researching this a lot lately because I'm having a weird experience with my Mass Super Skunk cut. Mom underwent a really stressful period, then the next cutting I ran grew completely differently than the original. Same smell, same taste, but the structure and yield were worlds apart from the first couple runs. I attributed it to my growing so I tried again, but the same result. Now I'm flowering the mom and again, same result. The terps are the same as before, but the plants structure is completely different and the yield is immensely diminished. I'm still not sure what happened, but trying to figure it out basically taught me that I don't know half what I thought I did.

Anyways, sorry for the wall of words guys lol. Just obviously a topic I've had on my mind.

Edit: removed a couple posts I apparently stoney started and never posted lol
I’ve heard tissue culture can reverse epigenetic changes. hopefully cost will come down for hobby level growers soon.
 

supershitfuck

Well-Known Member
So a quick clarification, Genetic Drift is misused in the cannabis community. In science it refers to shifts in the gene pool when a portion of a population is suddenly removed, reducing genetic variation or shifting it towards certain mutations that survive the shift in lieu of the ones that disappear.

When people describe "genetic drift" in cannabis they're actually referring to epigenetics theory, which is a theory that questions whether you can force phenotypical changes to alter inheritable gene expressions without altering the actual genetic make up of an organism.

Im not a botanist so you'll have to bear with me a bit, but essentially the idea is that if a plant has a gene that isn't triggered, and then you force it to trigger so that it shows a different expression, will it's offspring show the new expression as well. The argument usually comes up in the cannabis world when discussing intersex traits due to the long held belief that if you force a plant to show intersex traits for breeding its offspring will be more likely to be intersex, but it could apply to the stress applied to trying to keep a plant alive and a certain size for an extended period. Essentially the idea is that you aren't changing the genetics, your just triggering a latent gene that was already there, changing the phenotype of the plant, and once that's done, any clone taken would obviously show the same phenotypical change.

It's all a theory at the moment, so I'm certainly not stating the above as factual, but I also think we need to keep an open mind on the discussion.

Ive been researching this a lot lately because I'm having a weird experience with my Mass Super Skunk cut. Mom underwent a really stressful period, then the next cutting I ran grew completely differently than the original. Same smell, same taste, but the structure and yield were worlds apart from the first couple runs. I attributed it to my growing so I tried again, but the same result. Now I'm flowering the mom and again, same result. The terps are the same as before, but the plants structure is completely different and the yield is immensely diminished. I'm still not sure what happened, but trying to figure it out basically taught me that I don't know half what I thought I did.

Anyways, sorry for the wall of words guys lol. Just obviously a topic I've had on my mind.

Edit: removed a couple posts I apparently stoney started and never posted lol
That makes sense to me, that's why i'm kinda worried about my bonsai collection, sounds too good to be true
 

sadboy92

Well-Known Member
So a quick clarification, Genetic Drift is misused in the cannabis community. In science it refers to shifts in the gene pool when a portion of a population is suddenly removed, reducing genetic variation or shifting it towards certain mutations that survive the shift in lieu of the ones that disappear.

When people describe "genetic drift" in cannabis they're actually referring to epigenetics theory, which is a theory that questions whether you can force phenotypical changes to alter inheritable gene expressions without altering the actual genetic make up of an organism.

Im not a botanist so you'll have to bear with me a bit, but essentially the idea is that if a plant has a gene that isn't triggered, and then you force it to trigger so that it shows a different expression, will it's offspring show the new expression as well. The argument usually comes up in the cannabis world when discussing intersex traits due to the long held belief that if you force a plant to show intersex traits for breeding its offspring will be more likely to be intersex, but it could apply to the stress applied to trying to keep a plant alive and a certain size for an extended period. Essentially the idea is that you aren't changing the genetics, your just triggering a latent gene that was already there, changing the phenotype of the plant, and once that's done, any clone taken would obviously show the same phenotypical change.

It's all a theory at the moment, so I'm certainly not stating the above as factual, but I also think we need to keep an open mind on the discussion.

Ive been researching this a lot lately because I'm having a weird experience with my Mass Super Skunk cut. Mom underwent a really stressful period, then the next cutting I ran grew completely differently than the original. Same smell, same taste, but the structure and yield were worlds apart from the first couple runs. I attributed it to my growing so I tried again, but the same result. Now I'm flowering the mom and again, same result. The terps are the same as before, but the plants structure is completely different and the yield is immensely diminished. I'm still not sure what happened, but trying to figure it out basically taught me that I don't know half what I thought I did.

Anyways, sorry for the wall of words guys lol. Just obviously a topic I've had on my mind.

Edit: removed a couple posts I apparently stoney started and never posted lol
i won’t go into too much detail since it’s only tangentially related, but I took a prescription once and experienced side effects that lasted well beyond discontinuation of the drug (epigenetic change). I corrected this with a cycle of repeated stimulus deprivation and reintroduction. Also HDAC inhibitors, which may very well be possible with plants, and water fasting, but I don’t think a plant analogue for that exists. Hope that helps—or perhaps food for thought.
 

Gentlemencorpse

Well-Known Member
I have heard you can "fix" a genetic that's been breeded and breeded in salt grows over the years by letting it go one season outdoors and it'll regain it's natural or full potential, and it'll be better for growing in organic then... that's just some stuff i heard on youtube tho, don't quote me
I'm not sure if it would fix epigenetic variations but some natural sun and fresh air can definitely rescue a plant in rough shape. I had a plant earlier this year that I thought root aphids had killed. Stuck it on my back porch to dispose of and it perked right back up. Stuck it in an abandoned planter of used dirt and ignored her, and now here she is lol20210930_171144.jpg
 

supershitfuck

Well-Known Member
Have been smoking uncured Old Soul this week, the big-round-bud phenos are a killer, it's very strong weed, one hit outta the pipe and you get this powerful uplifting high, puts you in a good mood, could be overwhelming, morning stuff, the flavor is fresh, nutty mint pine, the smoke is on the thin side
 

Dreaming1

Well-Known Member
Never thought of inactive genes “triggered” by external factors and reproduction of that expression being incorporated into future cuts.
Interesting thoughts
"I thought" this happened in the next generation. Where environment turned on a gene and it could be passed on..? So the offspring exhibited altered traits from the parents within same strain.
And Is fast & furious genetic drift where you grow a cut for a long time and it starts to lose the appeal of the earlier ones? Like smell and yield. Can you keep an annual alive for too long? Or like cloning a sheep gets you a baby sheep that is genetically as old as the original sheep and dies sooner? From t cycle mutations or something..?
Idk. Harvest time for sure though.
 
>
Top