Achillesactual
Well-Known Member
Aero cloner I'm in the process of making.
I'm torn between using ultrasonic fogger or using a mister/ dewey mister. What does everyone think would work best?
Building Aero Cloner
- Thread starter Achillesactual
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Aero cloner I'm in the process of making.
I'm torn between using ultrasonic fogger or using a mister/ dewey mister. What does everyone think would work best?
I tried floggers, and while they can work, the problem is they generate a lot of heat, which quickly raises your water temp, leading to root rot. You could try hpa (high pressure aero) which creates a fog like mist inside the root chamber
You will need a deep cycle timer with ~ ONE second maximum on time, repeat every ~ one minute (or less) cycles 24/7
You will need a deep cycle timer with ~ ONE second maximum on time, repeat every ~ one minute (or less) cycles 24/7
Keesje
Well-Known Member
It does not make that much of a difference what you use.
As long as there is water and oxygen and the water is not too cold and not too hot, it will work.
It is more a price thing. Those foggers are a bit expensive and when they brake down it costs a lot to replace them.
Also with foggers you can not add nutes, because it is impossible to break down nutes in fog like drops.
Also the disc can get too much calcium on it and work less.
Misters are also good. Can get clogged, but easy to replace.
Aquariumpump can break down, but it is not too expensive to have a spare one.
Another option is to use sprinklers (like the green one in the pic) Easy to clean, don't clog that fast.
Buy also T-pieces with 1/2'' thread if you want to use more sprinklers.
Otherwise use just 1 that you screw somehow on the output of your aquariumpump.
You can use such a green one. You will be surprised how widespread the water goes.
Otherwise you can also put one of those lawn sprinklers on top op your pump (if you have enough height)
If the stems get wet every 10 minutes for a 1 or a few minutes it is ok.
People make to much of a fuss about it.
If you have a cheap timer which is 15 minutes on 15 minutes off, it is also ok.
But as PhatNuggz said... the only risk is that your water can heat up too much.
You can also make your own timer from a regular 15 minutes on/off timer.
There are posts here how to do it. One is by me.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/harvest-a-pound-every-three-weeks.116859/page-598
As long as there is water and oxygen and the water is not too cold and not too hot, it will work.
It is more a price thing. Those foggers are a bit expensive and when they brake down it costs a lot to replace them.
Also with foggers you can not add nutes, because it is impossible to break down nutes in fog like drops.
Also the disc can get too much calcium on it and work less.
Misters are also good. Can get clogged, but easy to replace.
Aquariumpump can break down, but it is not too expensive to have a spare one.
Another option is to use sprinklers (like the green one in the pic) Easy to clean, don't clog that fast.
Buy also T-pieces with 1/2'' thread if you want to use more sprinklers.
Otherwise use just 1 that you screw somehow on the output of your aquariumpump.
You can use such a green one. You will be surprised how widespread the water goes.
Otherwise you can also put one of those lawn sprinklers on top op your pump (if you have enough height)
If the stems get wet every 10 minutes for a 1 or a few minutes it is ok.
People make to much of a fuss about it.
If you have a cheap timer which is 15 minutes on 15 minutes off, it is also ok.
But as PhatNuggz said... the only risk is that your water can heat up too much.
You can also make your own timer from a regular 15 minutes on/off timer.
There are posts here how to do it. One is by me.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/harvest-a-pound-every-three-weeks.116859/page-598
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Keesje
Well-Known Member
Adding to all this...
I did several tests with different cloning systems.
3 things came out all the time.
1. The 'best system' does not exist.
It all depends on what you like, how much money you have to spent, how much space you have.
Kratky will work as well, so it is all no big deal.
2. Temperature is important.
When your water is below 19-20 C / 66-68 F it will also work. It just takes longer before roots show. Also don't make your water to warm. Although I have to do more tests on this.
3. The strength and quality of the mother.
I had perfect set ups and still no roots from 1 strain, and plenty of roots from another strain. Some people claim that their system is best because they have easy and strong mothers. And other people ditched a perfect system because they just had lousy cutlings.
I did several tests with different cloning systems.
3 things came out all the time.
1. The 'best system' does not exist.
It all depends on what you like, how much money you have to spent, how much space you have.
Kratky will work as well, so it is all no big deal.
2. Temperature is important.
When your water is below 19-20 C / 66-68 F it will also work. It just takes longer before roots show. Also don't make your water to warm. Although I have to do more tests on this.
3. The strength and quality of the mother.
I had perfect set ups and still no roots from 1 strain, and plenty of roots from another strain. Some people claim that their system is best because they have easy and strong mothers. And other people ditched a perfect system because they just had lousy cutlings.
Achillesactual
Well-Known Member
Thanks Keesje, I'm going to try and make the ultrasonic fogger work since it's arriving today, but if i can't keep temperatures in a effective range I'll just make it a high pressure mister based system.
Great point in it having more to do with the materials that you intend on cloning, and less about the system you use. I've always just used peat pucks or rockwool cubes and aloe but enjoy new projects and figured it would be cool to experiment!
Great point in it having more to do with the materials that you intend on cloning, and less about the system you use. I've always just used peat pucks or rockwool cubes and aloe but enjoy new projects and figured it would be cool to experiment!
where did you get those lpa mist heads?It does not make that much of a difference what you use.
As long as there is water and oxygen and the water is not too cold and not too hot, it will work.
It is more a price thing. Those foggers are a bit expensive and when they brake down it costs a lot to replace them.
Also with foggers you can not add nutes, because it is impossible to break down nutes in fog like drops.
Also the disc can get too much calcium on it and work less.
Misters are also good. Can get clogged, but easy to replace.
Aquariumpump can break down, but it is not too expensive to have a spare one.
Another option is to use sprinklers (like the green one in the pic) Easy to clean, don't clog that fast.
Buy also T-pieces with 1/2'' thread if you want to use more sprinklers.
Otherwise use just 1 that you screw somehow on the output of your aquariumpump.
You can use such a green one. You will be surprised how widespread the water goes.
Otherwise you can also put one of those lawn sprinklers on top op your pump (if you have enough height)
If the stems get wet every 10 minutes for a 1 or a few minutes it is ok.
People make to much of a fuss about it.
If you have a cheap timer which is 15 minutes on 15 minutes off, it is also ok.
But as PhatNuggz said... the only risk is that your water can heat up too much.
You can also make your own timer from a regular 15 minutes on/off timer.
There are posts here how to do it. One is by me.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/harvest-a-pound-every-three-weeks.116859/page-598
As to o/o times: 15/15 is very bad for developing the reason to use mist heads in the first place. I am currently using a analog deep cycle timer with a low setting of ~ 30 SECONDS. I am still dialing in the root chamber environment in order to get root hairs. I am forced to increase off time, now up to 15 minutes: the roots look nothing lie when I use my digital timer with a short cycle of ~ 2 SECONDS
System is the same: Can you guess which of these 2 pictures are on the ~ 2 second on/3 minute off cycle?
1st pic getting 3x as much water per day and 15x more per misting so the roots didnt get chance to breathe. 2nd pic shows the trick, once you figure the amount of water needed per day, is to spread it out as evenly as possible. If the system can provide the same mist coverage with 1sec/90sec or 0.5sec/45sec they`ll do even better. The daily flowrate is no different. Misting for16minutes once a day also delivers the same amount but that will only result in dead plants 
Achillesactual
Well-Known Member
All of this is greatly informative for making my system better. What type of timer are you guys using to only have something on for a 1second or sub one second interval?
dstroy
Well-Known Member
Atomizer is talking about the solenoid “dead time” and the period thereafter in which line pressure builds to acceptable levels. The “dead time” plus t zero is the minimum achievable pulse time. Sometimes, time to open is different from time to close so you have to account for that as well.
Achillesactual
Well-Known Member
The ultrasonic mister is cool but I think I would see better results with a submersible pump on a timer rigged up to some misters. So I'm going to order a 400gph pond pump and timer off of amazon. The timer I found is only 20$ and can be set to a loop cycle with as little as one second on.
Will rig the ultrasonic mister up in my tent to keep humidity in optimal range.
Will rig the ultrasonic mister up in my tent to keep humidity in optimal range.
Keesje
Well-Known Member
You guys make it all much too complicated.
Things with your roots can get wrong due to so many reasons.
Perhaps the water one uses is too cold.
If the roots then get cold water for a longer period (lets say 15 minutes), the roots get too cold.
Which can cause for example root rot (yes, root rot can appear at low temperatures as well)
Perhaps if the water would have been warmer, the roots would have been great.
If one uses let's say rockwool as a medium in your netpotand you put the stem in there, and you will spray the netpot for 15 minutes and then the off for 45 minutes... yes, then there is a huge chance your stems or roots will die. Because there is no oxygen available.
(the roots absorb the little DO there is, and they the dead water will block Oxygen in a gaseous state to get to the roots. This can also happen in nature when there is heavy rainfall and the ground is full with dead water)
If one would have used hydroton instead for example, the water would have gone, the stem and the roots would be moist. And plenty of air, rich with oxygen between the pebbles.
Then 15 minutes is no problem at all.
As long as your roots get water and oxygen, it is ok.
In a Kratky system the stems would be in the water 24/7 and still they will develop roots.
There is always DO in water. Also in water that stands still.
I mean when the surface of the water is in contact with the air, so air pressure can put oxygen in the water.
I did several tests with different systems; They all develop roots. Some faster as the other ones.
It has often more to do with the water temperature.
And with the strain as well.
Of course your roots must stay wet/moist almost all of the time, because Oxygen can only be absorbed by roots when they are wet.
Don't make growing cannabis in some NASA-blablabla business with ''intervals of 0.50 seconds'' and nonsense like that.
Yes, it will work, but 5 minutes on / 10 minutes off will work as well, and your yield will be just as big / slightly bigger/ slightly smaller.
But you spend a lot of money on stuff and the chances they will break down are realistic, and then you can not drive to Home Depot and buy new stuff quickly.
I use DIY timers with pegs of 45 sec's. Only reason I uses these is because if I let the pump run for 15 minutes on/off, the water will warm up too much.
@PhatNuggz
I buy most of my things in China.
I just go online and buy all kinds of different things. It costs nothing and I like to experiment.
I think I test 20 different misters/sprayers. The green ones in the pic work best for me.
They are so basic and cheap. 5 Pcs for $ 1.50 including shipping.
Things with your roots can get wrong due to so many reasons.
Perhaps the water one uses is too cold.
If the roots then get cold water for a longer period (lets say 15 minutes), the roots get too cold.
Which can cause for example root rot (yes, root rot can appear at low temperatures as well)
Perhaps if the water would have been warmer, the roots would have been great.
If one uses let's say rockwool as a medium in your netpotand you put the stem in there, and you will spray the netpot for 15 minutes and then the off for 45 minutes... yes, then there is a huge chance your stems or roots will die. Because there is no oxygen available.
(the roots absorb the little DO there is, and they the dead water will block Oxygen in a gaseous state to get to the roots. This can also happen in nature when there is heavy rainfall and the ground is full with dead water)
If one would have used hydroton instead for example, the water would have gone, the stem and the roots would be moist. And plenty of air, rich with oxygen between the pebbles.
Then 15 minutes is no problem at all.
As long as your roots get water and oxygen, it is ok.
In a Kratky system the stems would be in the water 24/7 and still they will develop roots.
There is always DO in water. Also in water that stands still.
I mean when the surface of the water is in contact with the air, so air pressure can put oxygen in the water.
I did several tests with different systems; They all develop roots. Some faster as the other ones.
It has often more to do with the water temperature.
And with the strain as well.
Of course your roots must stay wet/moist almost all of the time, because Oxygen can only be absorbed by roots when they are wet.
Don't make growing cannabis in some NASA-blablabla business with ''intervals of 0.50 seconds'' and nonsense like that.
Yes, it will work, but 5 minutes on / 10 minutes off will work as well, and your yield will be just as big / slightly bigger/ slightly smaller.
But you spend a lot of money on stuff and the chances they will break down are realistic, and then you can not drive to Home Depot and buy new stuff quickly.
I use DIY timers with pegs of 45 sec's. Only reason I uses these is because if I let the pump run for 15 minutes on/off, the water will warm up too much.
@PhatNuggz
I buy most of my things in China.
I just go online and buy all kinds of different things. It costs nothing and I like to experiment.
I think I test 20 different misters/sprayers. The green ones in the pic work best for me.
They are so basic and cheap. 5 Pcs for $ 1.50 including shipping.
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got a link
Keesje
Well-Known Member
https://tr.aliexpress.com/item/5-Adet-G-1-2-Sulama-Ya-murlama-Su-Buhar-P-sk-rtme-Bah-e-im/32678252669.html?spm=a2g10.search0104.3.19.378e12e9jmDwkz&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_319_5729915_317_10696_10084_453_10924_454_10083_10618_10920_10921_10307_10922_10301_10821_5730815_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=d08802af-46a7-4ae5-bf04-b4dd8f2a98e5&algo_expid=d08802af-46a7-4ae5-bf04-b4dd8f2a98e5-3
It is in turkish, but you can set it to English or any language you want. You can also change the currency.
wha
what a nightmare. After 4 times loading my cc info an still getting rejected, they ask for security info like passport, drivers license... it is not worth it
Keesje
Well-Known Member
Really?
I just had to give them my creditcard number, and that was all.
Weird.
Try again perhaps and then make sure that they are aware what country you're from.
What happens if you use this site.... https://www.aliexpress.com/
I just had to give them my creditcard number, and that was all.
Weird.
Try again perhaps and then make sure that they are aware what country you're from.
What happens if you use this site.... https://www.aliexpress.com/
It was a similar story when everyone was growing in soil and someone suggested hydro
I wouldnt recommend using an interval of 0.5 seconds, its nowhere near enough time between mistings