First organic grow, is this nute burn?

I think I gave them a little too much top dressing. I was reading that its harder to burn plants with organics but I think its still burn. Or maybe I'm wrong? Any guesses?

Did this coincide with the topdressing? What did you topdress with? In the past I managed to burn my plants easily with guano, it's not only possible, it's very likely to happen.

Did the whole plant shift to that lime green color all at once, overnight or very quickly?

Or did the color change creep on slowly, from the top down? Or maybe the bottom up?

Two other strains in the grow, one seems perfect the other has this brown crispy on some of the leaves.

I use a mix of gia green bloom, EWC, gypsum and oyster shell flour. Maybe I used too much calcium? Its weird how I feed them the same and every other variable is the same but some strains act differently?

youraveragehorticulturist said:

Did the whole plant shift to that lime green color all at once, overnight or very quickly?

Or did the color change creep on slowly, from the top down? Or maybe the bottom up?

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That strain has always been that color, my last grow with it too.

Some strain ask for more nitrogen in flower just like mine i thought that the worm casting will be enought nîtrogen but the bloom and ewc was not enought .

50/50 ratio when flow is my solution to keep them green
444 and 284 +ewc not needed to succes
I topdress it at 3 week in 12/12+

And it might be magnesium lock up ...i use some unsulfured grandma molasses to help that and feed the bacteria ! Tea spoon a gallon and i stop at 6 week it taste harsh if i dont stop it .

To much light 1200 ppfd ...push it to the limit

swedsteven said:

Some strain ask for more nitrogen in flower just like mine i thought that the worm casting will be enought nîtrogen but the bloom and ewc was not enought .

50/50 ratio when flow is my solution to keep them green
444 and 284 +ewc not needed to succes
I topdress it at 3 week in 12/12+

And it might be magnesium lock up ...i use some unsulfured grandma molasses to help that and feed the bacteria ! Tea spoon a gallon and i stop at 6 week it taste harsh if i dont stop it .
View attachment 4768105
To much light 1200 ppfd ...push it to the limit
View attachment 4768108

Click to expand...

Ok thanks for your reply, I'll add more 444 in bloom.

They are at week 6 now of flower so I'm going to no longer top dress and chop at week 9.

swedsteven said:

Some strain ask for more nitrogen in flower just like mine i thought that the worm casting will be enought nîtrogen but the bloom and ewc was not enought .

50/50 ratio when flow is my solution to keep them green
444 and 284 +ewc not needed to succes
I topdress it at 3 week in 12/12+

And it might be magnesium lock up ...i use some unsulfured grandma molasses to help that and feed the bacteria ! Tea spoon a gallon and i stop at 6 week it taste harsh if i dont stop it .

To much light 1200 ppfd ...push it to the limit

Click to expand...

This.

VILEPLUME said:

Two other strains in the grow, one seems perfect the other has this brown crispy on some of the leaves.

I use a mix of gia green bloom, EWC, gypsum and oyster shell flour. Maybe I used too much calcium? Its weird how I feed them the same and every other variable is the same but some strains act differently?

Click to expand...

Gypsum and OSF are loaded with Calcium, so you've very likely locked up the Mg. Mg deficiency is quite obvious in the very first photo you posted.

Consider that Mg, K, and Ca are all intertwined with one another. When one is in excess, the other two will be locked out. If one is deficient, the other two won't be able to be absorbed.

In your shoes, I'd be foliar feeding with Epsom Salts multiple times a week.

Continuing to top dress is just fine, however there's no need to top dress with Gypsum or OSF. OSF is for buffering your pH and a dose of Calcium, Gypsum is Calcium and Sulfur. Pretty much never going to be a need to top dress with either of those amendments.

Only top dress you should ever need for your plants is the 4-4-4 stuff or the Gaia Green bloom mix (since you mentioned you use Gaia Green products). Those products and compost are all you should ever need to top dress with.

Could always be worse, and fortunately your plants are almost finished. Just take it as a lesson learned my friend.

Though, I'd be wary of using that soil for any future grows due to the excess Calcium inputs in the soil. This problem is likely to rear its head again should you run this soil no-till.

kratos015 said:

This.




Gypsum and OSF are loaded with Calcium, so you've very likely locked up the Mg. Mg deficiency is quite obvious in the very first photo you posted.

Consider that Mg, K, and Ca are all intertwined with one another. When one is in excess, the other two will be locked out. If one is deficient, the other two won't be able to be absorbed.

In your shoes, I'd be foliar feeding with Epsom Salts multiple times a week.

Continuing to top dress is just fine, however there's no need to top dress with Gypsum or OSF. OSF is for buffering your pH and a dose of Calcium, Gypsum is Calcium and Sulfur. Pretty much never going to be a need to top dress with either of those amendments.

Only top dress you should ever need for your plants is the 4-4-4 stuff or the Gaia Green bloom mix (since you mentioned you use Gaia Green products). Those products and compost are all you should ever need to top dress with.

Could always be worse, and fortunately your plants are almost finished. Just take it as a lesson learned my friend.

Though, I'd be wary of using that soil for any future grows due to the excess Calcium inputs in the soil. This problem is likely to rear its head again should you run this soil no-till.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'll add some Epson salts to my watering.

The reason I was adding Gypsum and OSF was because my soil is about 15% coco. Someone here in another thread said i needed to add it. But now I'm realizing that the Gaia green 444 and bloom probably have enough Calcium.

VILEPLUME said:

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'll add some Epson salts to my watering.

The reason I was adding Gypsum and OSF was because my soil is about 15% coco. Someone here in another thread said i needed to add it. But now I'm realizing that the Gaia green 444 and bloom probably have enough Calcium.

Click to expand...

Not sure who said that, but no need to add that just because you're running coco. Used to make my supersoil with coco before switching to peat, never top dressed with gypsom or OSF.

And foliar feed with Epsom if possible, plants will absorb it much better that way.

Plant looks great for the most part though. Believe me, it could be so much worse.

kratos015 said:

Not sure who said that, but no need to add that just because you're running coco. Used to make my supersoil with coco before switching to peat, never top dressed with gypsom or OSF.

And foliar feed with Epsom if possible, plants will absorb it much better that way.

Plant looks great for the most part though. Believe me, it could be so much worse.

Click to expand...

Thanks again for your reply.

I'm not going to do no-till but I am going to save as much soil as I can then mix it with ocean forest, like a 50/50 ratio. Besides adding some 444 and EWC to the mix, should i add crushed dolomite lime or OSF? If its too much Cal, what else should I add when reusing soil?

Thanks, yeah the plants are ok. I feel I almost perfected my synthetic grow in coco and got the best weed ice ever smoked. Like before I thought I was a 9/10 grower now I feel like a 5 or 6.

Older pic of one of my coco plants seconds before trimming...

VILEPLUME said:

Thanks again for your reply.

I'm not going to do no-till but I am going to save as much soil as I can then mix it with ocean forest, like a 50/50 ratio. Besides adding some 444 and EWC to the mix, should i add crushed dolomite lime or OSF? If its too much Cal, what else should I add when reusing soil?

Thanks, yeah the plants are ok. I feel I almost perfected my synthetic grow in coco and got the best weed ice ever smoked. Like before I thought I was a 9/10 grower now I feel like a 5 or 6.

Older pic of one of my coco plants seconds before trimming...

View attachment 4768592

Click to expand...

Nice buds
But dont reuse this soil ...shes no good any more un less you add pure peat and perlite to it with only 444

You need to resuply the lime every 6 month with peat ....promix have plenty off lime for 6 month.
Every second grow for me.

swedsteven said:

Nice buds
But dont reuse this soil ...shes no good any more un less you add pure peat and perlite to it with only 444

You need to resuply the lime every 6 month with peat ....promix have plenty off lime for 6 month.
Every second grow for me.

Click to expand...

Sounds good I will mix straight perlite and peat with it. How much lime per gallon do you add?

Also do you have pictures of your bud in late bloom? I'd like to see how its suppose to look in an organic grow.

And any other tips that you recommend that maybe I'm missing?

I am not sure how much lime i go check my old post lol i think 1/4cup each 5gallon off promix iff i remember but Google it sry

And my remix lol i just top dress half cup off 444 each 5 gallon pot and remix the first 2 inch and ready to go again thats how i reuse it but the lime wiil be waiting next grow i check my soil ph with a cheap test npk ph test kit
And ill add half cup ewc because i have it ...

VILEPLUME said:

Sounds good I will mix straight perlite and peat with it. How much lime per gallon do you add?

Also do you have pictures of your bud in late bloom? I'd like to see how its suppose to look in an organic grow.

And any other tips that you recommend that maybe I'm missing?

Click to expand...

This grow i was top dressing a lot more like 2 time more and only 50/50 284 and 444 ...1cup each 5 gallon each 3 weeks and like 5 compost tea.
I think i need to look back lol that was my best yield to lol

VILEPLUME said:

Thanks again for your reply.

I'm not going to do no-till but I am going to save as much soil as I can then mix it with ocean forest, like a 50/50 ratio. Besides adding some 444 and EWC to the mix, should i add crushed dolomite lime or OSF? If its too much Cal, what else should I add when reusing soil?

Thanks, yeah the plants are ok. I feel I almost perfected my synthetic grow in coco and got the best weed ice ever smoked. Like before I thought I was a 9/10 grower now I feel like a 5 or 6.

Older pic of one of my coco plants seconds before trimming...

Click to expand...

Glad to be of service. But, let me instead ask you some questions.

Why do you want to re-mix with Ocean Forest?
Why are you wanting to add lime/OSF?

Dolomite and OSF are both liming agents meant to buffer soil/peat moss. You do not need to top dress with these, pretty much ever. Excess applications of either will result in pH fluctuations and Calcium toxicity.

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I mean no insult by what I'm about to say. You're a coco/synthetic grower. Contrary to the seemingly popular belief, there's nothing wrong with that. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and if coco/synthetics is your tried and true method then stick with that my man. Absolutely no shame in that.

It is true that a living soil is capable of providing one with the absolute best flavor profiles, however one shouldn't risk having to go through trial and error just to experience this.

Don't give up just yet, but stick to what works for you too. Instead of converting your entire grow into a no-till/living organic soil, run one or two pots in your room with living soil and do the rest with the coco/synthetic line up that has shown you good results.

Synthetics and living soil are two different animals. In a synthetic grow, you are in charge of providing the plants with everything they need. In a living soil, the soil is responsible for providing the plants with everything they need.

In my personal opinion, the reason you're experiencing mediocre results with living soil techniques is because you are trying to approach it on the same level as a synthetic grow. The reverse is true too. In a synthetic grow, you can't simply let your synthetics be in charge. This would be as disastrous.

Stick with what's been working for you and what you've already got dialed in, and do an experiment with living soil on the side until you get it dialed in too. In the meantime, do more reading and research into living soil.

This is all I do with my living soil grows.

Base soil is 40% peat/40% perlite/20% compost

Amend the base soil with 1/2c neem and kelp meals each, and 1/2c 4-4-4 or 5-5-5 Dr Earth blend per cuft of base soil for organic amendments. Then amend with 4c Basalt per cuft of soil.

Throw into pots, use VAM mycorrhizae for each seedling/clone transplant. Water only until veg cycle starts.

Top dress with neem and 5-5-5 Dr earth blend all of veg. Cover top dress with compost. I do this every two weeks. Water with diluted coconut water every 2 weeks.

Prior to flower, top dress with Karanja Meal and bloom mix (mine is G&M 4-6-4 mix). Cover with compost. Repeat this top dress consistently throughout flower every 2 weeks. I keep watering with diluted coconut water until flower stretch has stopped.

The idea is to keep your soil fed, not the plant. The soil will take care of the plant, our job is to take care of the soil. The soil's job is to take care of the plant. We do nothing for the plants, only the soil.

Foliar sprays are as follows.

Epsom Salts + Protekt is the base foliar feed for me. 2-3 times a week.
Once a month I will add Liquid Kelp/Seaweed and TM7 to the base foliar spray.

Literally all I do. Nothing expensive, nothing extravagant.

kratos015 said:

The idea is to keep your soil fed, not the plant. The soil will take care of the plant, our job is to take care of the soil. The soil's job is to take care of the plant. We do nothing for the plants, only the soil.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

The microbes and rhizobacteria and mycelium are the true gardeners who feed our plants.

Our job is to be the custodian of a healthy balanced biodiverse soil in which they can thrive and do our work for us.

kratos015 said:

Glad to be of service. But, let me instead ask you some questions.

Why do you want to re-mix with Ocean Forest?
Why are you wanting to add lime/OSF?

Dolomite and OSF are both liming agents meant to buffer soil/peat moss. You do not need to top dress with these, pretty much ever. Excess applications of either will result in pH fluctuations and Calcium toxicity.

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I mean no insult by what I'm about to say. You're a coco/synthetic grower. Contrary to the seemingly popular belief, there's nothing wrong with that. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and if coco/synthetics is your tried and true method then stick with that my man. Absolutely no shame in that.

It is true that a living soil is capable of providing one with the absolute best flavor profiles, however one shouldn't risk having to go through trial and error just to experience this.

Don't give up just yet, but stick to what works for you too. Instead of converting your entire grow into a no-till/living organic soil, run one or two pots in your room with living soil and do the rest with the coco/synthetic line up that has shown you good results.

Synthetics and living soil are two different animals. In a synthetic grow, you are in charge of providing the plants with everything they need. In a living soil, the soil is responsible for providing the plants with everything they need.

In my personal opinion, the reason you're experiencing mediocre results with living soil techniques is because you are trying to approach it on the same level as a synthetic grow. The reverse is true too. In a synthetic grow, you can't simply let your synthetics be in charge. This would be as disastrous.

Stick with what's been working for you and what you've already got dialed in, and do an experiment with living soil on the side until you get it dialed in too. In the meantime, do more reading and research into living soil.

This is all I do with my living soil grows.

Base soil is 40% peat/40% perlite/20% compost

Amend the base soil with 1/2c neem and kelp meals each, and 1/2c 4-4-4 or 5-5-5 Dr Earth blend per cuft of base soil for organic amendments. Then amend with 4c Basalt per cuft of soil.

Throw into pots, use VAM mycorrhizae for each seedling/clone transplant. Water only until veg cycle starts.

Top dress with neem and 5-5-5 Dr earth blend all of veg. Cover top dress with compost. I do this every two weeks. Water with diluted coconut water every 2 weeks.

Prior to flower, top dress with Karanja Meal and bloom mix (mine is G&M 4-6-4 mix). Cover with compost. Repeat this top dress consistently throughout flower every 2 weeks. I keep watering with diluted coconut water until flower stretch has stopped.

The idea is to keep your soil fed, not the plant. The soil will take care of the plant, our job is to take care of the soil. The soil's job is to take care of the plant. We do nothing for the plants, only the soil.

Foliar sprays are as follows.

Epsom Salts + Protekt is the base foliar feed for me. 2-3 times a week.
Once a month I will add Liquid Kelp/Seaweed and TM7 to the base foliar spray.

Literally all I do. Nothing expensive, nothing extravagant.

Click to expand...

Nice! I like simple.How much compost do you add over your dry fert?A cup or so per 5 gallon?.
Coconut water is this something you make?

I remember reading about your 40/40/20 mix about a month or so ago.I made a 15 g batch.Its been sitting since.My previous was the normal 1/3-1/3-1/3. My clones leaves shrivelled a little, assuming it was a little hot.
I planted a clone last week into this new mix and so far so good.

Appreciate all your help,cheers.

myke said:

Nice! I like simple.How much compost do you add over your dry fert?A cup or so per 5 gallon?.
Coconut water is this something you make?

Click to expand...

However much compost it takes to cover the top layer of the soil.

Coconut water can be found in most gas stations and grocery stores. Just make sure it says 100% coconut water and there's no added sugar or extra ingredients.

Coconut water is loaded with cytokines, which will make your node growth explode while simultaneously making node spacing shorter. It is best used on seedlings/clones old enough to top and all the way until flower starts. I stop using it after the flower stretch is done, as there really is no need after that.

myke said:

I remember reading about your 40/40/20 mix about a month or so ago.I made a 15 g batch.Its been sitting since.My previous was the normal 1/3-1/3-1/3. My clones leaves shrivelled a little, assuming it was a little hot.
I planted a clone last week into this new mix and so far so good.

Appreciate all your help,cheers.

Click to expand...

There is very little compost on the market that is actually good enough to be used at a 1:1:1 ratio I have found. It needs to be fully decomposed and aged properly. Only Oly Mountain and Coast of Maine products have impressed me.

IMO, unless you're making EWC/compost yourself it will causes issues in terms of soil texture for a few reasons. For one, unless this compost is perfectly light, fluffy, and airy then it will clump on you. Before adding compost to your soil, see how it reacts when you water it. Is it similar to coco coir? Or does it clump? If it clumps, this WILL happen in your soil. This is never a good thing.

The compost clumping on you will become a bigger problem when you're running no-till. Consider this, 33% is peat when you start a no-till mix right? Well, over a few runs that 33% peat moss will react with the organic inputs in your soil and become compost. So, after about a year or so your mix won't be 33% peat/perlite/compost. Once the peat and organic amendments decompose over time, you'll be left with something closer to 20-25% peat, 33% perlite, and 40-45% compost. And that doesn't even account for soil compaction, which is the #1 killer of no-till grows.

This is why I run 40% peat/40-45% perlite/15-20% compost, because that ratio accounts for all of the above issues. This way, when the peat and amendments decompose the soil compaction won't be as bad over time. This is because you'll still have sufficient peat moss, and the amount of perlite in your soil will ensure there is adequate aeration and drainage in your soil. The perlite will also help delay the effects of soil compaction. Soil compaction is inevitable. If it not a matter of if, but when and how long until it happens.

Furthermore, compost is the only thing that can be top dressed. Can't top dress more aeration into your mix. It is infinitely better to forgo having tons of compost in your soil because it can be put on your soil at literally any time.

You'll like the 40/40/20 ratio. In fact, upon mixing it I'm sure you immediately noticed how much lighter and fluffier it is. Imagine what your roots are going to think about that!