Fox farm ocean Forrest ph

PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Herb potman said:
So I have been watering my plants with just ph adjusted water at 6.5 ph and ppm at 160. And when I check my run off 2 plants are 6.0 ph and the other 2 are 5.1 ph and all there ppm amounts fall between 3000- 4000. Wtf that seems high But this is my first grow so Iam assuming that’s the hot soil that ppl keep talking about. Plants seem healthy besides some white dots on 2 plants and one leaf that has some burnt Can anyone help explain the ph and ppm levels Iam getting and why.
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Don't worry about measuring runoff in soil grows. In hydro, it can be a usefull tool, but not for soil.
green_machine_two9er said:
Ph adjusting plain water for soil is going to cause problems. There is no benefit as fox farm, as well as most fortified soils are buffered are the soil level. Drowning it in acid will kill all the good beneficial microbes which are feeding your plants.

I know this is not what most people say.... keepyour ph adjustments for when your feeding a nutrient solution. That’s the only time itmatters. ( with in reason) if water ph is 8plus then it’s prob a water problem to begin with.
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Wattzzup said:
This

Water with tap. Even if it’s 8. Pics
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While it's true that soil microbes will adjust soil ph, I disagree that it's not beneficial to adjust the ph to a more desirable range before feeding.

Consider this: soil microbes have to work to readjust the soil ph, while they could be doing other things. Don't you want your microbes to be working on other things for your plant, instead of adjusting the ph for you, when you could just do it yourself? Also, if the microbes are adjusting the soil to 6.5, and you add 8ph water, you are likely killing off microbes. A little ph down to get the feed to 6.5 will certainly have create a more accommodating aqueous solution for your soil life.
 
Wattzzup

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Don't worry about measuring runoff in soil grows. In hydro, it can be a usefull tool, but not for soil.


While it's true that soil microbes will adjust soil ph, I disagree that it's not beneficial to adjust the ph to a more desirable range before feeding.

Consider this: soil microbes have to work to readjust the soil ph, while they could be doing other things. Don't you want your microbes to be working on other things for your plant, instead of adjusting the ph for you, when you could just do it yourself? Also, if the microbes are adjusting the soil to 6.5, and you add 8ph water, you are likely killing off microbes. A little ph down to get the feed to 6.5 will certainly have create a more accommodating aqueous solution for your soil life.
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While I understand what you’re saying. The amendments have a ph buffer as well. Again no need for me to ph.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Wattzzup said:
While I understand what you’re saying. The amendments have a ph balancer as well. Again no need to ph.
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I understand. I agree that there's no "need", but that doesn't mean that it can't be beneficial. It would be good to know what the ph of the soil is, and adjust the water ph accordingly. Keep in mind, the difference between a ph of 6 and 8 is very drastic:

 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I understand. I agree that there's no "need", but that doesn't mean that it can't be beneficial. It would be good to know what the ph of the soil is, and adjust the water ph accordingly. Keep in mind, the difference between a ph of 6 and 8 is very drastic:

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Unfortunately I think you may be wrong, at least when it comes to organic living soil. Any ph down product will always be detrimental to microbe populations. In soil you build with proper buffers and soil conditioners to keep ph in the range, from the ground up. Not phed water from the top down.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
green_machine_two9er said:
Unfortunately I think you may be wrong, at least when it comes to organic living soil. Any ph down product will always be detrimental to microbe populations. In soil you build with proper buffers and soil conditioners to keep ph in the range, from the ground up. Not phed water from the top down.
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If you think that I am wrong, feel free to disprove my assertions with facts. The reality is that microbes will be happier fed a water ph'd the same as the soil medium the microbes are existing in (50ppm of ph adjustment won't hurt much in the grand scheme of things), vs giving a watering that comes out of the tap 10x (difference between 6.5 and 7.5) to 100x (difference between 6.5 and 8.5) more alkaline than the soil ph. Again, feel free to disprove me with facts.
 
BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
WrEkkED said:
I def will not anymore. Makes it way easier for me.
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Why make soil hard, the article explains any next step in working towards a stable pH with alkalinity and fertilizer choice.

Soil microbes are there if you feed them, they live where plants live so growing one is growing another you don't need to alter anything or worry about it.
 
BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
If you think that I am wrong, feel free to disprove my assertions with facts. The reality is that microbes will be happier fed a water ph'd the same as the soil medium the microbes are existing in (50ppm of ph adjustment won't hurt much in the grand scheme of things), vs giving a watering that comes out of the tap 10x (difference between 6.5 and 7.5) to 100x (difference between 6.5 and 8.5) more alkaline than the soil ph. Again, feel free to disprove me with facts.
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Add liquid seaweed to pH 8 tap water and wait a week, did microbes show up and eat? Your disproved.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
BBQtoast said:
Add liquid seaweed to pH 8 tap water and wait a week, did microbes show up and eat? Your disproved.
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I never said that microbes won't do that job. What I said is that they are more efficient when you give them the ph they are used to, rather than shocking them with a drastically different ph. Also, it's *you're.
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
If you think that I am wrong, feel free to disprove my assertions with facts. The reality is that microbes will be happier fed a water ph'd the same as the soil medium the microbes are existing in (50ppm of ph adjustment won't hurt much in the grand scheme of things), vs giving a watering that comes out of the tap 10x (difference between 6.5 and 7.5) to 100x (difference between 6.5 and 8.5) more alkaline than the soil ph. Again, feel free to disprove me with facts.
[/QUOTE
PJ Diaz said:
I never said that microbes won't do that job. What I said is that they are more efficient when you give them the ph they are used to, rather than shocking them with a drastically different ph. Also, it's *you're.
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i think the idea is. It is more shocking to the microbes to feed phosphoric acid, hydrochloric acid(ph down-up). Remember what that shit did in elementary school. It Will melt teeth in matte if weeks. Can’t be beneficial for micro herd. No way around it. Now if your goal is to feed plants with chelated nutrients then yes, by all means ph because that’s the only time it matters.

most nutrients companies sell beneficial bacteria inoculates in some way to re boost the herd and salts and acid kill off the living portion of the soil.
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PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
green_machine_two9er said:
i think the idea is. It is more shocking to the microbes to feed phosphoric acid, hydrochloric acid(ph down-up). Remember what that shit did in elementary school. It Will melt teeth in matte if weeks. Can’t be beneficial for micro herd. No way around it. Now if your goal is to feed plants with chelated nutrients then yes, by all means ph because that’s the only time it matters.

most nutrients companies sell beneficial bacteria inoculates in some way to re boost the herd and salts and acid kill off the living portion of the soil.
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Depends on the ppms. I'm not saying that the chemicals in ph up/down are "good" for microbes, per se. What I'm saying is that 20ppms of those chemicals will have less of a negative effect on the microbes, compared to a aqueous solution that is 100x more acid or alkaline than the environment that the microbes are thriving in.

Again, depends on the ppms. As an example, bleach is bad to drink umkay, however at 2ppms it's considered safe and in some cases is better water to drink than untreated water (unless you like Giardia).
 
BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Here's some science to support the idea of the importance to maintaining proper soil ph for your microbes:

If you just wanna cut to the conclusion, here it is:

View attachment 4798593
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Proper soil pH nothing to do with water pH, fortunately we have lime so that counteracts acidification.

Water pH doesn't directly affect soil population either as the study suggests.

Quoting stuff is not helping your argument.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
BBQtoast said:
Proper soil pH nothing to do with water pH, fortunately we have lime so that counteracts acidification.

Water pH doesn't directly affect soil population either as the study suggests.
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It suggests nothing of the sort. Here is another study to also support my position, and which also describes how soil ph imbalances can take place, which do indeed include mineralization from water or feed: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsufs.2020.00106/full

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Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Consider this: soil microbes have to work to readjust the soil ph, while they could be doing other things. Don't you want your microbes to be working on other things for your plant, instead of adjusting the ph for you, when you could just do it yourself? A
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is it really like this? or is the acidification of organic soil a somewhat normal process, that is going to happen anyway due to:
- Ammonia breaking down into nitrate
- H+ release of roots and microbes
- slight composting process of the substrate
etc
 
BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
It suggests nothing of the sort. Here is another study to also support my position, and which also describes how soil ph imbalances can take place, which do indeed include mineralization from water or feed: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsufs.2020.00106/full

View attachment 4798749
View attachment 4798750
View attachment 4798751
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I don't balance mineralisation with pH up or down in soil and doing that can lead to a false idea I have balanced lime, soil, microbes and all chemistry in it with a simple addition based on metered reading.

The text you have posted suggests so to, when you have balanced soil lime fertilizer and microbes why would waters small amount of mineralisation unbalance that.

Consequently I cannot dump pH 9 water on third world acidified land and bring it back to normal levels so some tribe can now grow wheat and feed his family instead of starvation and war.
 
BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
I also spent a little time in Google, there are plentiful species of organisms that colonize soil from ph4 to 8, these are all what we want and fit into out tight range of 5.5 to 6.5. Even if your soil is out of pH for any kind of reasonable plant growth it isn't for everything else.

In a sterile soil of ph4 the addition of am fungi gave better growth than a higher pH of 5 even above.

Some of these species had proton pumps and exchanged Al and H to internally regulate their pH.

pH was important, I could find a paper on how glomulous xxxxxxx couldn't produce mycelium tubes at ph5 but another paper where ten other species that didn't produce tubes under ph5 did over that figure.

The more you read the more you think, holy fuck changing my water pH is not doing anything.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
BBQtoast said:
I also spent a little time in Google, there are plentiful species of organisms that colonize soil from ph4 to 8, these are all what we want and fit into out tight range of 5.5 to 6.5. Even if your soil is out of pH for any kind of reasonable plant growth it isn't for everything else.

In a sterile soil of ph4 the addition of am fungi gave better growth than a higher pH of 5 even above.

Some of these species had proton pumps and exchanged Al and H to internally regulate their pH.

pH was important, I could find a paper on how glomulous xxxxxxx couldn't produce mycelium tubes at ph5 but another paper where ten other species that didn't produce tubes under ph5 did over that figure.

The more you read the more you think, holy fuck changing my water pH is not doing anything.
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Well said. i 100% agree.
I do not 100% disagree with what diaz is saying either. A lil phing is not going to hurt anything but its not needed. Common sense says that he is right but the real world shows it really dont matter. You are not going to change the ph of the medium with just ph'ed water in a couple months. sometimes it takes years.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Earthjuice and water = a ph of around 4.0 with a meter. You can use that as is for the whole cycle an not run into ph problems.
In the case of Earthjuice , im going to assume the meter cannot read the organic matter in the food so its not actually 4.....or maybe it is. it doesnt matter. the medium will buffer it 95% of the time.
 
BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
Earthjuice and water = a ph of around 4.0 with a meter. You can use that as is for the whole cycle an not run into ph problems.
In the case of Earthjuice , im going to assume the meter cannot read the organic matter in the food so its not actually 4.....or maybe it is. it doesnt matter. the medium will buffer it 95% of the time.
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The organic matter isn't in salt form, it has a potential to be when broken down, meters cannot read potential acidity so most organics don't register a real reading just the electro conductivity of what forms are at present.

You shouldn't pH organics or read it, like soil it's more complicated.
 
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