Fox Farm Trio only users don't use the feeding schedule!

DankDave420

DankDave420

Well-Known Member
I have an engineering background and mindset and want to put in my conclusion on this subject that seems to cause a lot of confusion. I have gone over their schedules extensively and really know I have it figured out when looking at the old version of the schedule. The confusion mostly arises because anytime anyone mentions FF nutes many instantly refer to the FF feeding schedule.

The schedule is only any good if you use the whole line up.
If you are just using the trio it will not give you optimal ratios. The other nutes even it out, for example:
Boomerang and Wholly Mackeral are started before Grow Big on the schedule, they both have a decent N ratio. Adding Grow Big as well that early would fry your babies.
But stand alone, Grow Big can start as soon as it is vegging, as soon as it needs N, when the cotyledons start yellowing up.

Also there are points later in the schedule where all three of the Trio are used in conjunction. Just look at the ratio of just the trio. It is not optimal. It is being optimized by the other nutes, and the solubles make a huge impact on those ratios.

When using only the trio, it is better to follow the instructions on the bottle. As far as using Big Bloom continuously, Grow Big in Veg, and Tiger bloom in flower. The actual PPM of the solution needed will vary as I will soon explain.

Every part of the schedule backs this up if you look at it, it is engineered to give the optimal ratios using all of the products, not just the trio.

I can't elaborate on what the PPM comes out compared to the schedule because I only have the Trio. But I only speculate that it would fry most of our plants. I can't imagine using all of that in one gallon of water. Also my botany skills are lacking but that PPM is clearly optimized for certain light levels at optimum conditions, 1000 watt light so many feet away on a certain size container on a certain size perfectly filled canopy, I once heard from a self proclaimed expert.
Your plants probably need much less!
Plus your strain, phenotype, health of plant, all vary the optimal amount of required nutrients.

I have no doubt using just the right amount of all thier products in thier test conditions would give you amazing results. But that is just too much for most of us. Especially most of us noobs that seem to be the ones that go straight to the FF.

So there is a very good reason the nute's label varies from the schedule. So you can buy all thier products and have the ratios all calculated up for you, or just buy what you need and follow the simple directions on the bottle. You don't just keep adding more and more on top of other nutrients without changing the ratios.

So we trio only users have no use for the schedule at all. And in my opinion we have no use for more nutrients than needed until we get the basics nailed down and learn to understand what our plants are telling us. We have to be able to grow a healthy plant first of all and having more fertilizers may make having the perfect ratios a possibility, but it also just unnecessarily complicates things for noobs that need to just make it to harvest without killing thier crop.

Stick with the basics: the Trio, Cal-mag if you use RO, maybe a carb.

Start with a lower than recommended dose of nutes. Learn to read your plants. Learn to WATER PROPERLY! And make sure you PH your water! Master that and then think about micro-managing 20 nutrients for a little bigger yield, 2% more THC, and of course get that dank top shelf flavor.

None of us ever get a perfect harvest on the first couple of grows, expecting to will just be a disappointment. Just make it to harvest without fucking it up too bad, and cure it right, and you will have an enjoyable crop.
 
Last edited:
scoots_mc

scoots_mc

New Member
Thx! A cpl questions. Bottle on BB uses TBSP and online sched uses TSP for unit of measure. Big difference there. You are saying 3-4 TBSP per gallon of water throughout all phases? Then just TSP for GB in veg and TSP for TB in flower? Just trying to boil it down to simple like you say.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
Trio will work fine by itself .... The others are mostly supplements .
The schedule ( regardless of new or old ) is a GUIDE ONLY . And it is way too easy to over analyze and read too much from the charts. I used the trio basics , the cha Ching , beastie and open sesame.

It is NOT to be run as stated - the ppm ratio and ranges are what they run under OPTIMAL CONDITIONS - since we are regular ( non lab controlled ) growers we
adjust according to PLANTS RESPONSE not what is written.

If using FFOF soil PLUS the trio - you will burn the shit out of your plants easily.
Their soil has a lot of Nutes already mixed in. I do not or felt the need to start seedlings on the trio as stated in schedule. I let soil " carry " plant into week 5 of growth , then start at 1/2 strength ( of schedule ) using teaspoon per gallon. I check the PPM of my mix always before adding to plants as these will spike it up. Big Bloom is the organic part of the trio and I use this more often. Grow big works great on plants with a long veg stage or if you plan to grow out a bigger plant before flip . Tiger Bloom works ok as bloom , but find other Nutes better - like MaxiBloom , Dynagro bloom , etc.

The fox farm trio salts up fast , that is why you start lighter than stated.
 
DankDave420

DankDave420

Well-Known Member
Hi guys. I just want to add that I am by no means an expert on this. Fox Farms should make it more clear in my opinion. I am just sharing my personal conclusion from what I have learned about the nutrient ratios and what I will be using. If you are having deficiencies showing of certain nutrients you should make adjustments. This is why I say you have to learn to read your plants and understand what they are telling you.
 
DankDave420

DankDave420

Well-Known Member
The feeding schedule uses less because it accounts for the additional nutrients on the schedule. I would definitely start lower than thier recommendations on either the bottle or the feeding schedule. The Big Bloom is not very potent, it would take alot to burn your plants. It is mostly micro nutrients and organics. Still thier recommendations are high because they are based off certain optimum conditions. A good thing to go by is your PPM requirements for your plants. Most people start with a 1/4 to half strength and either go up until they show signs of over feeding, or only go up if they show deficiencies. What burns one plant can be too low for another.
scoots_mc said:
Thx! A cpl questions. Bottle on BB uses TBSP and online sched uses TSP for unit of measure. Big difference there. You are saying 3-4 TBSP per gallon of water throughout all phases? Then just TSP for GB in veg and TSP for TB in flower? Just trying to boil it down to simple like you say.
Click to expand...
 
DankDave420

DankDave420

Well-Known Member
SdMEDgrower said:
What u mean a carb? super helpful post btw great job!
Click to expand...
I mean carbohydrates. Virtually all of the big fertilizer companies make one. Some examples are Sweet Raw, Bud Candy, FF Bembé, Blue Gold Super Carb, FloraNectar. I personally use blackstrap molasses.
Thier main use is to feed the soil microbes.
Some also claim that it sweetens thier flowers.
Some, like Bud Candy, the flavored Raw products, and FloraNectar actually contain fruit extracts that flavor your end product.
The advantage of the plant specific products over molasses is they often contain other micros like sulfur which is a necessary, often overlooked nutrient that aids in ripening. I am considering buying Sweet Raw just to get the supplemental sulfur, but as of now have only ever used molasses.
Also many will switch from Cal-mag to a Mag-Sulfur supplement when the buds are starting to ripen up and use carbs separately, but now I am moving away from keeping it simple and going off subject.
Just get a carb with sulfur included and you will be all set. But NOT SULFURED MOLASSES!!!! It is different from what I hear and will ruin your crop!!
 
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DankDave420

DankDave420

Well-Known Member
SdMEDgrower said:
What u mean a carb? super helpful post btw great job!
Click to expand...
And I probably could have left that off when saying "the basics". I started using Blackstrap Molasses as a Cal-Mag supplement trying to kill two birds with one stone. I never noticed a cal-mag deficiency but, I started doubting molasses was enough because of lack of sources backing that up. So I got Cal-Mag anyways since I do use RO. But I kept using molasses as well since my soil is microbe rich and my plants were healthy. Some people may not consider it necessary. But then I want to one up that and get more sulfur. So that is where I start getting more and more supplements that probably aren't necessary. So I probably went against my own advice already. But that is why I say keep it basic. If you start adding tons of stuff right from the beginning you don't have an idea of what each does. And you may be spending alot of money on things you never needed that may even be hurting your crop. I grew before with spring well water without either Cal-Mag or molasses and couldn't really tell you if it made a difference. I guess the true basics are just N-P-K and maybe trace minerals and micro nutrients available in all the basic trusted formulas. The point being you don't need thier whole line up to get good product. And if you can't get the basics right it isn't going to matter how many different bottles of nutes you buy.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
DankDave420 said:
I mean carbohydrates. Virtually all of the big fertilizer companies make one. Some examples are Sweet Raw, Bud Candy, FF Bembé, Blue Gold Super Carb, FloraNectar. I personally use blackstrap molasses.
Thier main use is to feed the soil microbes.
Some also claim that it sweetens thier flowers.
Some, like Bud Candy, the flavored Raw products, and FloraNectar actually contain fruit extracts that flavor your end product.
The advantage of the plant specific products over molasses is they often contain other micros like sulfur which is a necessary, often overlooked nutrient that aids in ripening. I am considering buying Sweet Raw just to get the supplemental sulfur, but as of now have only ever used molasses.
Also many will switch from Cal-mag to a Mag-Sulfur supplement when the buds are starting to ripen up and use carbs separately, but now I am moving away from keeping it simple and going off subject.
Just get a carb with sulfur included and you will be all set. But NOT SULFURED MOLASSES!!!! It is different from what I hear and will ruin your crop!!
Click to expand...

Botanicare sweet is mostly Magnesium Sulfate and water. It also has multiple forms of soluble sugars.

The product was not intended to feed the micro life. And molasses or other additives are not either. It's a myth. The biology present shares food with the plants in a symbiotic relationship. Sure if there is more carbs introduced they will eat it but the plants produce the carbs all by themselves. So "feeding" the microbes would deter them from the job we want them to do.

The theory in horticulture in giving sugar is to get the plant to directly uptake it increasing the whole cycle.

And the mag sulfate is supposed to help with plant stress and increase terpenes.

The instructions say to stop giving during final ripening. Not sure why anyone would feed plants carbs when we want the buds to taste smooth.

The 24 hr dark period before harvest is to get the carbs in the plant back down to the roots before we cut the flowers even.
 
T

Tripping With Rocks

Well-Known Member
I've been growing using the Fox Farm trio, Cha Ching, Beastie Bloomz and Open Sesame, and various types of soil before I settled on Happy Frog. I use water only during veg, then half the recommended strength once a week throughout flowering. You can use more, but you'll be wasting it at best.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
To me .... adding this and that will NOT get you greater product ... you could throw molasses , unicorn piss and whatever at a plant and will mean nothing if you are running shitty genetics.

Adding molasses is the cheapest alternative to those retail products - which ironically have molasses in them . You can get the same effect from honey and assorted simple sugars . Soils are the best medium for these but thru personal experience it added no benefit . As long as you have a thriving soil you are set. It makes ZERO sense to do multi bottle feeds on ANY plant . I kicked FF to the curb ( i still have a little left ) for much SIMPLER nute lines ( 2 or 3 part mixes ).

Dynagro / GH are easy to use and erases the confusion. I use DR. EARTH -(3/3/3 ) for grows in veg and then use maxibloom for flower Dr. Earth also has a great bloom agent called : Flower Girl.

If your medium Is light and not very ammended , then FF shines but if you are running a more complete soil mix , it will be too hot to use in most conditions unless you start very light (1/4 - 1/2 strength ). Even the DR. Earth " liquid solution " has 2% molasses already in it. Dynagro is another very complete ( no brainer ) feed ... i mix one capful per gallon water - it buffers my tap water to 6.5 and rarely have to adjust. It works beautifully for my hempy grows.


Keep shit simple ...
 
Kaotic

Kaotic

Well-Known Member
DankDave420 said:
I have an engineering background and mindset and want to put in my conclusion on this subject that seems to cause a lot of confusion. I have gone over their schedules extensively and really know I have it figured out when looking at the old version of the schedule. The confusion mostly arises because anytime anyone mentions FF nutes many instantly refer to the FF feeding schedule.

The schedule is only any good if you use the whole line up.
If you are just using the trio it will not give you optimal ratios. The other nutes even it out, for example:
Boomerang and Wholly Mackeral are started before Grow Big on the schedule, they both have a decent N ratio. Adding Grow Big as well that early would fry your babies.
But stand alone, Grow Big can start as soon as it is vegging, as soon as it needs N, when the cotyledons start yellowing up.

Also there are points later in the schedule where all three of the Trio are used in conjunction. Just look at the ratio of just the trio. It is not optimal. It is being optimized by the other nutes, and the solubles make a huge impact on those ratios.

When using only the trio, it is better to follow the instructions on the bottle. As far as using Big Bloom continuously, Grow Big in Veg, and Tiger bloom in flower. The actual PPM of the solution needed will vary as I will soon explain.

Every part of the schedule backs this up if you look at it, it is engineered to give the optimal ratios using all of the products, not just the trio.

I can't elaborate on what the PPM comes out compared to the schedule because I only have the Trio. But I only speculate that it would fry most of our plants. I can't imagine using all of that in one gallon of water. Also my botany skills are lacking but that PPM is clearly optimized for certain light levels at optimum conditions, 1000 watt light so many feet away on a certain size container on a certain size perfectly filled canopy, I once heard from a self proclaimed expert.
Your plants probably need much less!
Plus your strain, phenotype, health of plant, all vary the optimal amount of required nutrients.

I have no doubt using just the right amount of all thier products in thier test conditions would give you amazing results. But that is just too much for most of us. Especially most of us noobs that seem to be the ones that go straight to the FF.

So there is a very good reason the nute's label varies from the schedule. So you can buy all thier products and have the ratios all calculated up for you, or just buy what you need and follow the simple directions on the bottle. You don't just keep adding more and more on top of other nutrients without changing the ratios.

So we trio only users have no use for the schedule at all. And in my opinion we have no use for more nutrients than needed until we get the basics nailed down and learn to understand what our plants are telling us. We have to be able to grow a healthy plant first of all and having more fertilizers may make having the perfect ratios a possibility, but it also just unnecessarily complicates things for noobs that need to just make it to harvest without killing thier crop.

Stick with the basics: the Trio, Cal-mag if you use RO, maybe a carb.

Start with a lower than recommended dose of nutes. Learn to read your plants. Learn to WATER PROPERLY! And make sure you PH your water! Master that and then think about micro-managing 20 nutrients for a little bigger yield, 2% more THC, and of course get that dank top shelf flavor.

None of us ever get a perfect harvest on the first couple of grows, expecting to will just be a disappointment. Just make it to harvest without fucking it up too bad, and cure it right, and you will have an enjoyable crop.
Click to expand...
Fox farm chart is indeed for all or almost al of its nutrients on chart, if you don’t have that then you go by the bottles directions on the back, I’ve been using all of their nutrients except for the wholly mackerel and boomerang, don’t need it I use big bloom in slightly increasing amounts for a young seedling that’s not in veg yet. I wait until the water leafs start turning yellow and drop off til I add veg nutrients big bloom grow big etc. I am very strict with how much nutrients I give my plants , I first introduce it with a very minimal amount and increase every other nutrient watering, being water,nutrient,water,nutrients alternatively.
I found Kelp works really good from the beginning to near end and helps with metabolism and uptake. Plants are 2 months and almost 3 weeks old, vegged for 5 weeks and switched to flower 12-12 from 18-6. Make sure you add trace minerals to your water first then the secondary nutrients , DO NOT SHAKE CONTAINER WHEN ADDING EACH NUTRIENT, GENTLY FLIP THE JUG UP AND DOWN VERY SLOWLY TO VERY SLOWLY MIX THE NUTRIENTS IN THE WATER, I LEARNED MY LESSON AND GOT WRONG PH READINGS FOR A WHILE.. ONLY ONCE YOU MIX ALL NUTRIENTS AND GET THE RIGHT PH READING THEN YOU CAN SHAKE AND MIX WELL. *EDIT* This is my first grow indoors, been helping my dad with his grow outdoors for years, also these are 2 clones one on left is XXX OG and the taller on right is Alien Cookies. Can’t wait to pop my gelato seeds. These pics are from 2 weeks ago, so they were about a month in flowering. Thwy are looking much beastly now lol I’ll put some pics up when they wake up tonight.
 

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Last edited:
Kaotic

Kaotic

Well-Known Member
Budzbuddha said:
To me .... adding this and that will NOT get you greater product ... you could throw molasses , unicorn piss and whatever at a plant and will mean nothing if you are running shitty genetics.

Adding molasses is the cheapest alternative to those retail products - which ironically have molasses in them . You can get the same effect from honey and assorted simple sugars . Soils are the best medium for these but thru personal experience it added no benefit . As long as you have a thriving soil you are set. It makes ZERO sense to do multi bottle feeds on ANY plant . I kicked FF to the curb ( i still have a little left ) for much SIMPLER nute lines ( 2 or 3 part mixes ).

Dynagro / GH are easy to use and erases the confusion. I use DR. EARTH -(3/3/3 ) for grows in veg and then use maxibloom for flower Dr. Earth also has a great bloom agent called : Flower Girl.

If your medium Is light and not very ammended , then FF shines but if you are running a more complete soil mix , it will be too hot to use in most conditions unless you start very light (1/4 - 1/2 strength ). Even the DR. Earth " liquid solution " has 2% molasses already in it. Dynagro is another very complete ( no brainer ) feed ... i mix one capful per gallon water - it buffers my tap water to 6.5 and rarely have to adjust. It works beautifully for my hempy grows.


Keep shit simple ...
Click to expand...
Honestly their all nutrients either synthetic or full organic, I just use less of foxfarms and I use all their nutes my plants are coming beautifully and starting to smell skunky and sweet, I also use earth juice hi brix every few weeks or so and a couple times right when I flush for it’s first feedings. A lil bit goes a long way with FF that’s all, their ingredients are bomb lol
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
No way I'm wasting my time following some ridiculous schedule involving changing amounts of over a dozen different bottles of overpriced stuff. I can't believe people go through all this trouble to end up with over fertilized, raspy looking plants.

 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
No way I'm wasting my time following some ridiculous schedule involving changing amounts of over a dozen different bottles of overpriced stuff. I can't believe people go through all this trouble to end up with over fertilized, raspy looking plants.
Click to expand...
Exactly.... if you look at the CHART between week 5-7 ... they are listing 8 DIFFERENT Bottles for the mix ! ......

Ummmm ... hell no .

Technically you can run GROWBIG for Veg .... Tiger for Bloom and call it a day.
 
SPLFreak808

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
MagicalMinded1 said:
so if everyone on here is downing fox farms feeding schedule why are we purchasing their products at all?
Click to expand...
To be fair, feeding ratios/levels can swing very heavily from different phenotype/environment combinations.

You cant really use a feeding chart and expect a perfect plant without getting somewhat lucky, If i remember correctly most fox farm products are supposed to be semi-dialed for outdoor fruiting plants in sunny areas.

Fox farm products are pricey, good for those who don't have time & space to build soil but you can go a lot longer with more optimal ratios by building your own soil and at a fraction of the cost.
 
T

Teacherttom

Member
DankDave420 said:
I have an engineering background and mindset and want to put in my conclusion on this subject that seems to cause a lot of confusion. I have gone over their schedules extensively and really know I have it figured out when looking at the old version of the schedule. The confusion mostly arises because anytime anyone mentions FF nutes many instantly refer to the FF feeding schedule.

The schedule is only any good if you use the whole line up.
If you are just using the trio it will not give you optimal ratios. The other nutes even it out, for example:
Boomerang and Wholly Mackeral are started before Grow Big on the schedule, they both have a decent N ratio. Adding Grow Big as well that early would fry your babies.
But stand alone, Grow Big can start as soon as it is vegging, as soon as it needs N, when the cotyledons start yellowing up.

Also there are points later in the schedule where all three of the Trio are used in conjunction. Just look at the ratio of just the trio. It is not optimal. It is being optimized by the other nutes, and the solubles make a huge impact on those ratios.

When using only the trio, it is better to follow the instructions on the bottle. As far as using Big Bloom continuously, Grow Big in Veg, and Tiger bloom in flower. The actual PPM of the solution needed will vary as I will soon explain.

Every part of the schedule backs this up if you look at it, it is engineered to give the optimal ratios using all of the products, not just the trio.

I can't elaborate on what the PPM comes out compared to the schedule because I only have the Trio. But I only speculate that it would fry most of our plants. I can't imagine using all of that in one gallon of water. Also my botany skills are lacking but that PPM is clearly optimized for certain light levels at optimum conditions, 1000 watt light so many feet away on a certain size container on a certain size perfectly filled canopy, I once heard from a self proclaimed expert.
Your plants probably need much less!
Plus your strain, phenotype, health of plant, all vary the optimal amount of required nutrients.

I have no doubt using just the right amount of all thier products in thier test conditions would give you amazing results. But that is just too much for most of us. Especially most of us noobs that seem to be the ones that go straight to the FF.

So there is a very good reason the nute's label varies from the schedule. So you can buy all thier products and have the ratios all calculated up for you, or just buy what you need and follow the simple directions on the bottle. You don't just keep adding more and more on top of other nutrients without changing the ratios.

So we trio only users have no use for the schedule at all. And in my opinion we have no use for more nutrients than needed until we get the basics nailed down and learn to understand what our plants are telling us. We have to be able to grow a healthy plant first of all and having more fertilizers may make having the perfect ratios a possibility, but it also just unnecessarily complicates things for noobs that need to just make it to harvest without killing thier crop.

Stick with the basics: the Trio, Cal-mag if you use RO, maybe a carb.

Start with a lower than recommended dose of nutes. Learn to read your plants. Learn to WATER PROPERLY! And make sure you PH your water! Master that and then think about micro-managing 20 nutrients for a little bigger yield, 2% more THC, and of course get that dank top shelf flavor.

None of us ever get a perfect harvest on the first couple of grows, expecting to will just be a disappointment. Just make it to harvest without fucking it up too bad, and cure it right, and you will have an enjoyable crop.
Click to expand...
Just came across this(couple yrs late)and this is absolutely what i needed to validate my own suspicions! LOL! No probs by going by what's on The bottle!
 
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