High Pressure Aeroponics

Hey Guys! How is it going? I just got back to school. It is an early year; we go a full week before Labor Day. I miss Maine and party days of summer already. The summer grow is in bloom and looking pretty good for my first outdoor aero grow.
I have six plants in a triple 5 gal bucket aero system. Each bucket is standalone, recirculating. The bottom pail holds the nutes and pump with a hole in the lid to reclaim the runoff nutes, all controlled by a short-cycle timer encased in a Zip-lock bag outside. The middle bucket is the root zone. It has a hole in the middle aligned with the hole in the rez pail. Instead of a lid on this bucket, another black net pot pail sits which houses the plant.

( The small tote is an areo cloner, ...disregard the clones.)

I cut into my deck to gain access to the ground. I dug out about 36 inches of dirt to make space for the buckets, and placed them below grade. Insulation and weed fabric isolates them. It's been in the 90's this summer, but the geothermal has kept the RZC quite cool. Digging the pots into the ground solved the heat issue nicely! I built a locking screen room around them with Agromark fabric obscuring the birds-eye view. They have been growing all summer. They have really grown.

( @!%& !!!!... I really don't know why I can't get this pic to rotate and save so that you guys can view it normally. Maybe my ethanol or,,,damn it, so frustrated...five bloody times...)

Well, sorry about the skewed view, rest assured these ladies are well over 7 feet tall now. They are in bloom and the stink is pungent. I'm sure that they are going to attract predators soon, so I have the Arlo's all in place. I think I need a gnarly attack dog.
I'm going to start a new batch, maybe in September, in the tent inside. I'm searching for a crazy high THC strain. Well, anyway, I need to make another strong drink now... I have to brace for day two with the students... I hope everyone is well, and I'll talk to you guys soon.

Later!

- ZXC

Thank you for this thread. I am putting together a high pressure aero system myself here in Massachusetts with a pressure tank and a few solenoids, humidity/temperature sensors hooked up to a Raspberry Pi. i work in software by day, so I've actually written this nice little software suite for control and remote monitoring, with customizable rules for triggering each solenoid. For example, if the temperature in the root zones exceeds a certain point, humidity drops too low, or it's been too long since the last trigger it will open up for a specified duration. I have to do some experimentation myself of course for my own build, but I'm wondering if you might have some advice for some of these optimization metrics based on your experiences. I will try to document my findings once I get dialed in, and if you think this project of yours might benefit from this sort of automation perhaps we could share some knowledge!

dstroy said:

IDK why I’d use anything other than the container size I am right now. I’ve gotta move plants from my veg area to my flower area. Chamber size has nothing to do with droplet size out of the nozzle, so I’m not really sure why you are talking about it? Unless you’re saying that the container is smaller and will cause the mist to coalesce? Well, it doesn’t really matter how large the root chamber is, as long as the roots sit in air. So my buckets sit in another bucket, with holes punched in it so the roots never sit in water ever. Even with a huge root chamber the roots will hit the bottom.

Yeah, droplet size is important.

IDK where you got the under one second thing but that’s dumb. You have to feed long enough to keep the whole rootball moist. I have accumulators and solenoids

The reason why I’m giving you such a hard time is because you talk like you know exactly for sure how to do something, and then grow plants that look like that. Crispy.

Also, you act like you know how to grow HPA, when you never had a successful grow with it. I mean, I’ve been doing this for about a year and I’m just now starting to get a handle on it. FFS. You’ve been a member here for a long time and shouldn’t have a problem finishing a decent looking plant.

I grow crispy plants too, but they look fuckin better than what you posted by a long shot. Just don’t give out advice on methods when you’re not qualified to, because you never had a successful grow with HPA.

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I know this is old, but have been launching my own bucket hpa design which I've been testing on 2 buckets with seedlings. I've been struggling with root growth and they always are struggling to stand up. They are drowning imo amd I was already thinking of a 2 bucket design as I have 12 buckets now for my 2 rooms. Can you clarify your 2 bucket system please? I've got tefen 1gph 3 per bucket facing down like yours and 1 bucket facing up from the bottom. Both exhibit the same symptoms, but the roots are better on face down. Ty.

Pd1434 said:

I know this is old, but have been launching my own bucket hpa design which I've been testing on 2 buckets with seedlings. I've been struggling with root growth and they always are struggling to stand up. They are drowning imo amd I was already thinking of a 2 bucket design as I have 12 buckets now for my 2 rooms. Can you clarify your 2 bucket system please? I've got tefen 1gph 3 per bucket facing down like yours and 1 bucket facing up from the bottom. Both exhibit the same symptoms, but the roots are better on face down. Ty.

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sure

nozzles

http://www.mrdrip.com/680--34-GPH-Barbed-Mist-Nozzle-Bag-of-5_p_332.html

top bucket:
has this in it
https://www.amazon.com/Strainer-Disposable-Filters-Elastic-Opening/dp/B06XBLFPFJ/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=mesh+paint+strainer&qid=1553737879&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-3-catcorr

bunch of small holes punched in the bottom with a tapered reamer to drain into the bottom bucket

bottom bucket:
plumbing to pump out, or have passive drain or whatever

I use the black leaktite buckets and lids, they sell them at home depot

that's it

I feed for about 2.5-3 seconds every 180 seconds at 1.2-1.6EC, I have a controller that I built that takes care of all of that. I use megacrop, mammoth p, hydroguard , and emerald harvest calmag.

I hope this helps out

Ty d. I've added the second bucket & the strainer filters. I'll post some pics in a few. I'm going to use the buckets for now and continue to pursue some larger containers I also bought. I like your bucket system for several reasons and will post some pics soon.

Things improved with the addition of the 2nd bucket. Perhaps it's insulating the root zone. Ty again.

Hi Folks,

I'm planning a drain to waist HPA system and need an advise on how to properly test the pump settings prior to load my tank with nutrients.
I got the tank and pump from the pictures below. The tank is rated at 125psi operating pressure and I already pressurized it at 88-90psi.
The pump itself has a builtin pressure regulator and according the documentation if I unscrew the regulator nut it will lower the shut off pressure.
However I want to test the shut off prior to load the tank with water. What is the best way to do that?

Thx in advance.

All you need is a bucket of water, a piece of tubing fitted with a pressure gauge (preferably glycerine filled) and a shut off valve. Prime the pump and tube with water, close the valve as you watch the pressure gauge. That should give you the cut-out pressure. To get the cut in pressure,pressurise the tube and turn off the pump. Very slowly open the valve as you watch the pressure gauge and listen for the click from the pumps pressure switch. You may need to do this a few times because it will happen real fast. You need to know the cut-in pressure as it dictates the air precharge for the accumulator. If the air precharge is higher than the pumps cut-in pressure, the tank will run completely dry before the pump will turn on. You need the air precharge to be 2psi below the pump cut-in pressure so there is a little left in the tank when the pump turns on. External pressure switches are much better than the switches fitted to pumps. An external will allow you to adjust the cut-in and cut-out pressures independantly. The deadband on an onboard switch is usually fixed and not very wide, typically 30psi. If you plan to run the tank from 90psi-120psi, its not a problem.
The capacity of the accumulator will be the nominal figure, it`ll usually be 10%-11% less in practice for larger tanks. If you run it from 90psi-120psi it will hold around 14.5L (3.92us gal) of nutes. If you run it 80-120 that would give you around 19.8L (5.23 us gal).
If you are running dtw, installing a pressure reducer is a good idea, the nozzle flowrate will be different at 120psi vs 90psi, if its a constant 90psi, the nozzle flowrate/mist quality will be more consistant and the tank will run for longer.

Jist noticed you have the filter on the outlet side of the pump. It would be better on the inlet side so it protects the pump as well..

Thx Atomizer,

The setup above is a test one - both inlet and outlet were connected to a bucket of water and I tried to adjust the cutoff but without much success - it was always cutting off at around 160psi. I'm not worried about the cut in as the pump will only be used to pressure the tank once as I'm planning to run drain to wait. The capacity will be sufficient for around 2 weeks, so I'll have to load it again every 2 weeks after it gets empty.

My main struggle is with the adjustment of the cutoff. I guess I'm struggling to understand the basics here.
My tank is air pressurized at 88-90psi and I want to run the water pressure for the nozzles at 80psi. If my pump is cutting off at 160 psi and I try to load the tank with water, I assume the bladder will blow. So I need to adjust the cut off at a lower value? And what should be it?
Also can you recommend an external pressure switch?

If you are manually charging the tank the cut-out isnt important as long as its above the pressure you want in the tank. You simply wait for the gauge to reach the desired pressure and manually turn off the pump. I charge my 25L and 100L accumulators from 80-140 using the same method and a single pump which is physically disconnected after so it cant be accidentally turned on by me or anyone else. The cut-in pressure is important if you want to top up the charge before the tank is empty, for example, you decide to go away for the weekend or you need an extra half day`s run time on the nutes before switching. Manual charging allows you to add as much or as little as you want to the tank at any time. A pressure switch will only fill it when its empty and wont stop until its full.
If you want to run 80psi you cant use 88psi air precharge because the water must be 88psi to get into the tank. The bladder is surrounded (and squashed flat) by air at 88psi, water at 80psi cant flow into the bladder Without a pressure reducer, the nozzle pressure will mirror the tank pressure. You set the reducer to 80psi or whatever the minimum tank pressure is and it will maintain that regardless of the tank pressure. I use caleffi brand reducers but as long as its adjustable and can handle the maximum pressure, any brand will be fine.
The run time of the accumulator depends on the total system flowrate and the timing. Assuming the tank has a realworld capacity of 17.6 us gallons and you charge it from 80psi to 120psi, the system would be running about1.4L (0.37 us gal) of nutes per day to get 2 weeks out of it.

dicknixon said:

Thank you for this thread. I am putting together a high pressure aero system myself here in Massachusetts with a pressure tank and a few solenoids, humidity/temperature sensors hooked up to a Raspberry Pi. i work in software by day, so I've actually written this nice little software suite for control and remote monitoring, with customizable rules for triggering each solenoid. For example, if the temperature in the root zones exceeds a certain point, humidity drops too low, or it's been too long since the last trigger it will open up for a specified duration. I have to do some experimentation myself of course for my own build, but I'm wondering if you might have some advice for some of these optimization metrics based on your experiences. I will try to document my findings once I get dialed in, and if you think this project of yours might benefit from this sort of automation perhaps we could share some knowledge!

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That project sounds very interesting. What sensor did you choose for meassure the humidity in the root chamber?

ZxcStaz said:

Results after crunching data:

- Accumulator Tank Data analysis:

100-80 psi @ 2s intervals = 17.5 hrs. 2 gal. fluid consumed
80-60 psi @ 2s = 75 hrs. 4 gal. consumed

Max Total = 4 days/6.5 gal without re-pressurizing.

Extrapolation for system total volume @ 40 psi final pressure and 14.5 gal total pressurized volume equals approximately 8-9 days without refill.

- Conclusions:

In accordance to Tefen nozzle specification data sheets, and empirically, pressure reduction equivocates to a flow reduction, as shown by these time-pressure-volume data. Practical considerations include impacts to saturation rates, droplet size, and frequency of effluent removal. Visual comparison of droplet size and mist density did not reveal notable discrepancies. Qualitative hand saturation comparisons support the idea that the root zone will uniformly and adequately covered. Timing of an effluent removal pump can be estimated, once a specific pump is chosen. Flow rates and timing intervals will be calculated and tested for said device.

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greetings. Read a few of your back and forth and wanted to respond...1.5 yrs later.
been growing aero for20+ yrs with great success. Hard lessons in the early years but once you get your environment, nutrient schedule, remote view and automation under control. You’ll slay it! aeroponics is a lifestyle. You have a few short ours without water or you’re dead without water. Have redundancy in place ( heat, water, pump issues, power outages, etc..). I used jet pumps (1+ hp), large 140 gallon reservoir, air pumps pushing air from the outside to the routes, two Self cleaning metal misters per 69 litre container. I spaced 4 ft apart 4.5 feet in rows, 1.5 feet from the wall. timer: 35-40 seconds on, 20 minutes off. Reservoir has an overflow and a float valve. led’s and double ended vertical fixtures kill it in the intr canopy space. led’s around the perimeter and on the ceiling above the girls. single led tubes ith will do, ganged up to 8. monitor your vid and you’re good. I drop the temps @ the to low 50’s to pull out the tricombs and treps. glacier water.
that’s my 2 cents.

PetFlora said:

a sterile rez should prevent filter clogging. My mist heads had screens in each, which constantly got clogged. I resorted to placing an inline filter which was much easier to access and check and clean the filter

I forget the company, check irrigation filters, but this one is an inline push type (quick release)

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130 micron disc filter inline w the jet pump. New self cleaning misters have spring inside each, moves up and down in the chamber every time misters go on. Always find redundancy, paddles in the gutter pipe act as sensors and will shut of lights or set alarms if water doesn’t go through gutter pipe back to Rez.

Hey there...just found this thread and I'm still on the first page, but after doing tons of reading and research I designed almost an identical system, so I'm very excited to catch up!

Here's a pic of my parts. I'm using round containers, however and was hoping I could get away with a single mister per bin, but it seems I need to get some teflon thread sealant for fitting that came with my accumulator tank so have to make a trip to home-grow depot to pick some up later today before I can do any more testing.

I also ordered a couple baggies of kale and stevia seeds to maybe plant alongside my motherplant and to perhaps to expand this concept outdoors for the summer season.

Valhellion said:

timer: 35-40 seconds on, 20 minutes off.

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In poker circles, they call it a "level." It's when someone posts something that appears serious, but is really a joke. At first, that's what I thought that your post was. Glacier water? But I've decided that you're for real, and I'd like to understand the science behind your super-long "on" time. It makes no sense to me, as forum leaders talk about fractions of a second for on-time. Commonly accepted aeroponic principles would say that a long on-time would drench the roots, and give you a dwc result.

A fatman excerpt:
"There is also the issue that roots release exudate and that this and salts on the roots not taken in by the tips of the hair roots need to be washed off between spray cycles as this Ph is not controllable otherwise. This is handled by supplying fog to the plants growing chambers at all times...The fog does however wash off exudate and salts between each spray fluid thereby always assuring the roots are always supplied the properly sized atomized mist at a proper and constant pH."

Is anyone doing anything in successful practice with fog, spray methods, spray cycles, or flushing to address root exudates?

I am about to harvest my third grow which is my first attempt at HP Aeroponics ScrOG. I have had no issues with misters clogging but do get some brown sludge in my filters (from seaweed extracts?). What can I flush my system with to remove any residues before I start my next grow?

I was thinking hot water with some dish soap?

Awesome build too, was the pump reliable ?

I built a system but I was using cheap Chinese diaphragm pumps that would fail randomly.