is plant rotation really necessary?
- Thread starter Dboi87
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PuffinTuff420
Member
Depends on how even your light distribution in your set up and how much room the plants have between each other, if both are sufficient then no you don't really need to rotate in my experience. A rule of thumb i go by is (at least) 10,000 lumens per plant and about 6 inches or more between them. if you have taller plants on the outside of the room and the lights are centered then yes deffinetly rotate at least once a day.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
You don't have too if you scrog or have multiple bulbs on either side. You don't have to if you don't want. Rotating should be done with all lighting methods. To get the best over all coverage and yield and quality.
Fyi lumens doesn't mean anything to plants. Lumens by definition is visible light to the human eye. Plants / chlorophyll absorb wave lengths that we don't normally see. Its par you want to measure. Umole/s / watts2
Fyi lumens doesn't mean anything to plants. Lumens by definition is visible light to the human eye. Plants / chlorophyll absorb wave lengths that we don't normally see. Its par you want to measure. Umole/s / watts2
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
No, you don't have to rotate. All that happens is the plant will grow towards the light and bush up on that side.
Put it this way, in nature, plants don't rotate. And they are nearly always side-lit, as the sun is very rarely overhead (and only for a couple of hours or so each day at the height of summer). For the most part, the sun is always shining at an angle - to the north in the sourthern hemsphere, and to the south in the northern hemisphere - which is why vertical lighting is actually more "natural" than horizontal lighting.
I never rotate and I've been growing vertically for almost 10 years. It's not worth the trouble.
Put it this way, in nature, plants don't rotate. And they are nearly always side-lit, as the sun is very rarely overhead (and only for a couple of hours or so each day at the height of summer). For the most part, the sun is always shining at an angle - to the north in the sourthern hemsphere, and to the south in the northern hemisphere - which is why vertical lighting is actually more "natural" than horizontal lighting.
I never rotate and I've been growing vertically for almost 10 years. It's not worth the trouble.
Shivaskunk
Well-Known Member
The sun is totally different than an HPS..and it moves all day (well the earth moves) so its hitting the plants from many different angles..vertical and horizontal are equally natural indoors lol although I've found that a combination of the two works very well. So Mr Prawn Connery you are really making the argument for rotating.
If you scrog or train your plants to face your stationary light then you don't necessarily need to rotate..or if you have multiple lights hanging vert then it's less needed..but I promise that if you rotate your plants it will make a difference.
Common sense tells you that even if you get great results not rotating that you are very likely to do better if you do..unless like mentioned above if you train and manipulate the apical meristem growth auxins in order to create a vertical flat canopy. The more bud nodes that you have getting intense light the more bud you get.
If you scrog or train your plants to face your stationary light then you don't necessarily need to rotate..or if you have multiple lights hanging vert then it's less needed..but I promise that if you rotate your plants it will make a difference.
Common sense tells you that even if you get great results not rotating that you are very likely to do better if you do..unless like mentioned above if you train and manipulate the apical meristem growth auxins in order to create a vertical flat canopy. The more bud nodes that you have getting intense light the more bud you get.
PuffinTuff420
Member
Yes PAR means Photosynthetic Active response zone is the part of the light spectrum plant utilizes for growth but that is only a fraction of the lighting equation,same is true with lumens but light intensity is the magnitude of light energy per unit of area. It is greatest near the bulb and diminishes rapidly as it moves away from the source.for example plants two feet away from a lamp recieve one-fourth the amount of light recieved by plant one foot away from light source, an hid that imits 100,000 lumens produces a paltry 25,000 lumens two feet away. a 1000 watt hid that emits 100,000 watt that emits 100,000 initial lumens yields 11,111 lumens 3 feet away. The close marijuana is to a light source, the more PAR watts it recieves and the better it grows, as long as its not too close that heat from the lamp causes burned foliage.the relationship and the light emitted from a point source (bulb) and distance are defined by the inverse square law. This law affirms the intensity of light changes in inverse proportion to the square of distance I=l/d2 Intensity=light output/distance2. 1 lumen is equal to the amount of light emitted by one candle that falls on one square foot of surface one foot away. Lumens emmitted are only one part of the equation. lumens recieved by the plant are much more important. Lumens recieved are measured watts-per-square-foot also known as foot-candles (fc) one foot candle equals the amount of light that falls on one square foot of surface located one foot away from one candle.watts per square foot is easy to calculate but is erroneous way to calculate usable light for a garden. It measures how many watts are available from a light source in an area.mounting height is not considered in watts per square foot, nor does it consider PAR watts or efficiency of the bulb.Calculating foot candles or lux is a more accurate way to estimate the amount of light plants recieve, but it still lacks the precision of a light meter that calculates foot candle or lux. PAR and light spectrum play a huge role in growth rates. Marijuana needs light to grow. the light must have the proper spectrum and intensity to ensure rapid growth. light is comprised of several bands of color. Each color in the spectrum sends the plant a seperate signal each colr in the spectrum promotes a different type of growth. Plants need and use only certain portions of the light spectrum however, and the most important colors in the spectrum for maximum chlorophly production and photosynthesis response are in the blue and red range. The main portiion of light used by plants is between between 400-700 nanometers (nm) this region is called the Photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) zone. PAR watts is the measurement of the actual amount of specific photons a plant needs to grow. Photons are a measure of light energy. Light energy is radiated and and assimilated in photons. Photosynthesis is nesassary for plants to grow is activated by the assimilation of photons. blue photons are worth more PAR watts than red photons, but scientists have difficulty measuring the exact difference.Each color of light triggers different plant functions. Positive tropism, the plant ability to to orient leaves towards light, is controlled by spectrum. while light bulbs will never really be as good for plants as the sun it is sufficient enough.Light is also measured in Keulvin temperature which expresses the exact color a bulb emits (almost always on the box of bulb) bulbs with a kelvin temperature from 3000-6500 are best for growing marijuana. The PAR explains that that plants use specific portions of the light spectrum a complete range from blue to red. Lamps with a spectrum similar to a PAR rated bulb can use Kelvin temperature of a bulb to ascertain the aproximate PAR rating for a bulb. The Color Corrected Temperature (CCT) of a bulb is the peak kelvin temperature at wich the colors in a bulb remain stable. We classify bulbs by thier CCT rating wich tells us the overall color of the light emmited. Companies use a Color Rendering Index (CRI) the higher the CRI the better the bulb is for growing.
Hiddenface
Active Member
OMG! WHAT?! The only obvious benefit gained from rotating your plant is stretch and growth. The side with the light will develop faster. I have never experienced an increase in flower (bud) production and its not likely you will either. The only two realistic reasons ,in my experience, for rotating is: (1) you need the stretch for training later on or, (2)you intend to throw those bad girls outdoors later. Otherwise, the bud growth will be maximized daily on the side with the most intense light . Go ahead and try a side by side comparison. Rotate two plants during veg. then switch to flower . Continue swinging one round and round and the other press relatively flat and against the wall with the branches restrained and spread evenly to maximize the light coverage. Please report back with dry weight. Proper training and minor pruning is of course always advised. Results will vary in relation to system situation and possibly bias. "Common sense".........never mind , decided not to touch this one this time.
Hiddenface
Active Member
Sorry Dboi87 to answer your question its like Prawn basically said its a waste of time. You would be better off putting the light over head and putting the plant in a smaller enclosure so the reflective material you would attach to the walls would take care of light distribution and side lighting.
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Indeed the sun does arc from horizon to horizon . . . but it always shines on one side - the south-facing side if you are in the northern hemishere, or the north-facing side if you are in the southern hemisphere. (Different story if you are on the equator - which most of us aren't.)
For example, if you decide to put solar panels on your roof to generate electricity, which direction do you face them? Answer that, and you will confirm what I have been saying all along . . .
Actual practice (empirical evidence - not theory) has proven to me different.Shivaskunk said:
Don't think I didn't try rotating my plants when I first started growing vertically almost 10 years ago - I did. Which is why I now know it's a waste of time
This is correct. But what happens to those nodes when you rotate them AWAY from the light? You get stringy growth - less density - on all sides, because each side is only getting maximum light each time it is rotated towards the light. So instead of getting 12 hours of intense light, seven days a week, each node is now only getting 12 hours 3-4 days a week - half the PAR (photosynthetically active radiation).Shivaskunk said:
However, if you leave your plants in one position, the nodes that face the light grow bigger and denser, while those on the "dark side" hardly grow at all. The plant simply transfers all its growth energy into the nodes/branches where the most light is.
Just like it does in nature
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Indeed the sun does arc from horizon to horizon . . . but it always shines on one side - the south-facing side if you are in the northern hemishere, or the north-facing side if you are in the southern hemisphere. (Different story if you are on the equator - which most of us aren't.)
For example, if you decide to put solar panels on your roof to generate electricity, which direction do you face them? Answer that, and you will confirm what I have been saying all along . . .
Actual practice (empirical evidence - not theory) has proven to me different.
Don't think I didn't try rotating my plants when I first started growing vertically almost 10 years ago - I did. Which is why I now know it's a waste of time
This is correct. But what happens to those nodes when you rotate them AWAY from the light? You get stringy growth - less density - on all sides, because each side is only getting maximum light each time it is rotated towards the light. So instead of getting 12 hours of intense light, seven days a week, each node is now only getting 12 hours 3-4 days a week - half the PAR (photosynthetically active radiation).
However, if you leave your plants in one position, the nodes that face the light grow bigger and denser, while those on the "dark side" hardly grow at all. The plant simply transfers all its growth energy into the nodes/branches where the most light is.
Just like it does in nature
I Just saw a house in the hills yesterday where almost the whole roof was covered in solar panels on all sides. I'm so jealous of that house
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Cri . I have seen bulbs with lower cri perform better. Especially with led. WIth lumens. Adding more yellow increase lumens but lowers par..kelvin is based on black body radiator scale and is in no way an accurate measurement of spectrum or par.. Thats puts a hole in all that copy and pasting.
Yes blue region has more photons than red. Chlorophyll absorbs more red region than blue. Green helps plants absorb more photons in other areas. 75% of light chlorophyll absorbs is between 650nm -700nm
Inverse square law applies to intensity of a single point of light vs linear. Theres is about 5 different models of inverse square law.
http://m.pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/4/684.full
http://m.jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/11/3107.full
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/isql.html#c1
Superstealthaus
Member
So I can put my plants like 4 inches away from my led grow light? Currently about 8-9 inches away plants only 6 inches tall
Superstealthaus
Member
Shiiiiiiit ok thanks
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Go to the led and other lighting section for anymore help if needed. Plus plenty of led grows going on there
Shivaskunk
Well-Known Member
Yeah so light movers do nothing for yield either huh? You will absolutely see more uniform buds by rotating plants with natural shape that aren't under direct light. Outdoors where the sun moves all day long and changes angle as the seasons change you will get better yields than under indoor lighting. YES the sun is far more powerful but you will also notice that the buds on every side of your plant get uniformly large. Your tops will always be largest by virtue of the nature in which cannabis directs growth hormones. They also get full light constantly. Your lower buds..as you will obviously notice will get bigger if they are the ones facing your light while the bud sites that are shaded will develope slower and be smaller. In much the same way that if you take your tops and leave the lower buds to mature..if you rotate your naturally shaped plants in order to get more even amounts of light to the bud sites you will get more uniformly mature buds. This should indeed increase your yield.
There is a reason that lighting companies that sell products to indoor growers come up with light movers/spinning lights and why we all use reflective materials on our walls to capture as much light as possible/get light to the places that aren't directly under light. ...ys common sense tells you that a bud that gets more light will develope better.
I will agree with and defer to Prawn Connery on vertical growing as he does it very well and I don't have much experience. Definitely a vertical scrog is going to give you fantastic results. Or having enough lights to cover all sides of plants grown in the typical xmas tree or rounded shrub.
If your stupid ass had actually read my post I clearly stated that vertically scrog your plants will give you the best results. If you grow your plants without scrog I will absolutely say that rotating them will give you better results...or having enough lights to fill your area with light on all sides. Ive done it and my buds were anything but wispy.
But like this guy says..just try it for yourself and see what works best for you.
Shivaskunk
Well-Known Member
I just train my plants for the nodes/branches that I want to see bud on and cut the rest away.
Indeed the sun does arc from horizon to horizon . . . but it always shines on one side - the south-facing side if you are in the northern hemishere, or the north-facing side if you are in the southern hemisphere. (Different story if you are on the equator - which most of us aren't.)
For example, if you decide to put solar panels on your roof to generate electricity, which direction do you face them? Answer that, and you will confirm what I have been saying all along . . .
Actual practice (empirical evidence - not theory) has proven to me different.
Don't think I didn't try rotating my plants when I first started growing vertically almost 10 years ago - I did. Which is why I now know it's a waste of time
This is correct. But what happens to those nodes when you rotate them AWAY from the light? You get stringy growth - less density - on all sides, because each side is only getting maximum light each time it is rotated towards the light. So instead of getting 12 hours of intense light, seven days a week, each node is now only getting 12 hours 3-4 days a week - half the PAR (photosynthetically active radiation).
However, if you leave your plants in one position, the nodes that face the light grow bigger and denser, while those on the "dark side" hardly grow at all. The plant simply transfers all its growth energy into the nodes/branches where the most light is.
Just like it does in nature
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
I also scrog, but I do grow the odd indica in my set-up, and they're a little harder to bend into shape without breaking branches etc. So when I have Christmas trees, I don't bother rotating and just let them bush out near the light. Works for me.
Sir.Ganga
New Member
Rotating you plants does two things for any room, 1st. it allows for a more even plant all the way around and second and most important IMO is space. Clones may all come from the same mom but will all grow differently depending on where you took them, by rotating them equally you will eventually know how many actually fit in your grow and be able to max out the area every time without overgrow. Good Luck