Kratom

A few years ago my Wife had an injury that's triggered a series of painful surgeries.
She manages her pain pretty well with her current meds plus the weed I grow; but we're always looking for something to help reduce opiate intake.

After researching Kratom for a while, I decided to try it & bought 100 grams of Red Vein Bali Kratom powder.
Here's what I've noticed so far. Other experiences, opinions and advice welcome.

Kratom tastes AWFUL. --- I have yet to figure out how to get the desired dosage (5-8g for me) without just "getting it down" however I can.
--- all recipes welcome!!
--- So far lemonade & kombucha mask the bitterness best, thinking capsules may be the solution...
Kratom works, shockingly well. I find that the above mentioned 5-8g mentioned above acts much like a vicodin or similar opiate.
--euphoria, pain relief, warmth, slight itchiness --- very similar.
--I have taken as much as 15g and found it difficult to get down, caused stomach upset, and wasn't THAT much stronger than the 5-8g range I've been taking.
From reading elsewhere, it seems that there is some risk of addiction, though not as much as opiates.

We're cautiously optimistic that my Wife will be able to use Kratom periodically as a "tolerance reducer" for her pain management schedule.

The Mayo Clinic doesn't make it sound good.

PadawanWarrior said:

The Mayo Clinic doesn't make it sound good.

Kratom: Unsafe and ineffective

Users revere kratom for mood enhancement and fatigue reduction, but safety issues and questions about effectiveness abound. Learn more before trying it.

www.mayoclinic.org

Click to expand...

They also don’t recommend marijuana, what your point?

I used Kratom for a few years after I had my shoulder reconstructed. Capsules. You can get empty ones online and fill them yourself.

Just know, Kratom is addictive too, and when I was taking it twice a day for months and months on end, I got terrible withdrawal symptoms if I missed a day. That stupid restless leg bullshit in addition to other symptoms.

Also, I haven’t used traditional opiates since 2016 for pain. Or really much at all since then. But I discovered after a car accident in 2019 that despite years of being clean off opiates, that my tolerance was very much still high. As high as when I was taking opiates daily.

Good luck to you and your wife

PadawanWarrior said:

The Mayo Clinic doesn't make it sound good.

Kratom: Unsafe and ineffective

Users revere kratom for mood enhancement and fatigue reduction, but safety issues and questions about effectiveness abound. Learn more before trying it.

www.mayoclinic.org

Click to expand...

@PadawanWarrior , @J232 & @Metasynth --- especially with OTC herbs like this, cautious, heavily researched experimentation is the call.
I posted here specifically hoping to get responses on all sides as we proceed - THANKS!

I use it when I've been careless with my back or my old-guy knees really fire up. (Edit - more than Ibuprofen will handle)
For my Wife, it's been strictly a tolerance reset - she spent one week switching from one to the other and back - and was able to lower her intake by a few pills / day when she went back on the opiate prescription.

While I'm certainly not against western medicine, I find that I often notice some obvious conflicts of interest:
Most clinics and traditional western med schools will not change stance on cannabis, or have just gone silent on the issue.
Why?
They would have to admit that at least some - if not all - of what they've been teaching & preaching has been either wrong or outright lies.
Not good for their reputations.

Big pharma has even more interest in stifling honest research - the potential disruption to their pipeline could reach billions of dollars.

And there is ZERO interest in curing ANY disease:
It's simple - a cure is a one-time sale; no return business expected until the next generation shows up in the office.
A maintenance drug allows the customer to live with their disease - cancer, diabetes, malaria etc. are FAR more profitable.
Instead of a one time sale, the company has multiple streams of monthly income for the duration of the customer. --- Pretty cold, eh?
Last major disease cured? --- Polio. It cost pharmaceutical companies millions - billions in today's economy.

FWIW, our favorite plant is next.
As cannabis is finally receiving acceptance in the medical and general societies, big tobacco has taken notice... (I'll keep growing my own, TYVM)

Lockedin said:

A few years ago my Wife had an injury that's triggered a series of painful surgeries.
She manages her pain pretty well with her current meds plus the weed I grow; but we're always looking for something to help reduce opiate intake.

After researching Kratom for a while, I decided to try it & bought 100 grams of Red Vein Bali Kratom powder.
Here's what I've noticed so far. Other experiences, opinions and advice welcome.

Kratom tastes AWFUL. --- I have yet to figure out how to get the desired dosage (5-8g for me) without just "getting it down" however I can.
--- all recipes welcome!!
--- So far lemonade & kombucha mask the bitterness best, thinking capsules may be the solution...
Kratom works, shockingly well. I find that the above mentioned 5-8g mentioned above acts much like a vicodin or similar opiate.
--euphoria, pain relief, warmth, slight itchiness --- very similar.
--I have taken as much as 15g and found it difficult to get down, caused stomach upset, and wasn't THAT much stronger than the 5-8g range I've been taking.
From reading elsewhere, it seems that there is some risk of addiction, though not as much as opiates.

We're cautiously optimistic that my Wife will be able to use Kratom periodically as a "tolerance reducer" for her pain management schedule.

Click to expand...

Kratom is just as addictive as some of the other opiates available. I know because I've been using opiates for pain management for about ten years straight. I had a harder time getting of Kratom than Tramadol and codeine.

The thing that differ Kratom from other opiates is that it binds strongly to both the Kappa and MU receptors, that's why Kratom is more stimulating than most other opiates because of it binding to the Kappa receptor sites.

There's actually an analog in Kratom that's on paper way stronger than diamorphine(heroin) so you should be cautious about Kratom and it's addictive properties.

I was on Kratom for a year before I weened myself of it. Was down to like 2 grams a day but still had two weeks of total lethargy and low mood when getting of it.

Metasynth said:

I used Kratom for a few years after I had my shoulder reconstructed. Capsules. You can get empty ones online and fill them yourself.

Just know, Kratom is addictive too, and when I was taking it twice a day for months and months on end, I got terrible withdrawal symptoms if I missed a day. That stupid restless leg bullshit in addition to other symptoms.

Also, I haven’t used traditional opiates since 2016 for pain. Or really much at all since then. But I discovered after a car accident in 2019 that despite years of being clean off opiates, that my tolerance was very much still high. As high as when I was taking opiates daily.

Good luck to you and your wife

Click to expand...

Just re-read your post. Got me thinking.

Addiction
My Wife has a hand injury; we're currently talking with the surgeon about the game plan for her 4th surgery - multiple incisions, bicep to fingers.
She's been riding the opiate train for a few years now - actively managing opiate addiction has been a fact of life for us for a while now.

To get an idea what her pain level is - one of the options on the table for her upcoming surgery is complete amputation at the wrist....

Sucks!! - not the reality either one of us wanted, or worked most of our lives for.


Tolerance lowering /reset
Is our primary goal. As stated above, we're well past worrying about addiction - we're in it - this is a long-term war to gain at least some control of her pain-killer intake until the surgeries (potentially 2 more) are completed.

Growing weed has helped her much - a solid indica like Herijuana helps her to reduce her pill intake considerably, but we're always searching for other tools to help us in the search.

Believe me, nobody wants to be in this position --- searching the internet for way to help your best friend manage (not remove) severe pain while not killing her is a desperate venture at best.
I certainly never imagined that I'd be trolling pages asking complete strangers how they like their alt-drugs. Dark way to look at it, but IMHO real.

If I may ask - what is your strategy(ies) for pain management?

If you are going to do Kratom just dont use the "parachute method" My son did and It got caught in his throat and he was by himself choking with no air. He ran out of the house towards the neighbors and collapsed/fell hard on a landscape timber that hit him square in the chest and it knocked it loose. He gasped hard for air and sucked it down his lungs and aspirated. Had double lung pneumonia in 12 hours and a fever of 104 and climbing. Doctor said his youth and the fact he had such healthy lungs saved him. If he had been any older he would have died.

oh...I left out the 8 days in the hospital, losing his job. And those damn shots in the stomach every day so if you want to use Kratom powder I recommend mixing mix it in a liquid or something like it says on the label.

Im on opioids too and I hate it but its either that or stay on the couch all day and I have too many things to do. Kratom isnt on my list of things to try. I have upped my Ibuprofen and that has cut down on one of three pain pills a day. Ive tried the back injections, CBD and high CBD cannabis neither seem to help much.

medicaloutlaw said:

If you are going to do Kratom just dont use the "parachute method" My son did and It got caught in his throat and he was by himself choking with no air. He ran out of the house towards the neighbors and collapsed/fell hard on a landscape timber that hit him square in the chest and it knocked it loose. He gasped hard for air and sucked it down his lungs and aspirated. Had double lung pneumonia in 12 hours and a fever of 104 and climbing. Doctor said his youth and the fact he had such healthy lungs saved him. If he had been any older he would have died.

oh...I left out the 8 days in the hospital, losing his job. And those damn shots in the stomach every day so if you want to use Kratom powder I recommend mixing mix it in a liquid or something like it says on the label.

Im on opioids too and I hate it but its either that or stay on the couch all day and I have too many things to do. Kratom isnt on my list of things to try. I have upped my Ibuprofen and that has cut down on one of three pain pills a day. Ive tried the back injections, CBD and high CBD cannabis neither seem to help much.

Click to expand...

Ouch! Glad he's ok.

I avoid most pills, and find that I only need strong pain relief a few times a month now - hopefully less as my back rehabs and I re-learn that I'm not 22 anymore....
I had a bad Oxycontin habit (as opposed to a good one?) I developed in my late 30's following an injury - 240+mg snorted daily
After a few months of that - I ran out all at once - no tapering at all. ouch.
A good thing, in retrospect: After that little taste of hell, pills & I have a very different relationship...
Weed is the only thing that I take daily atm.

My Wife however, will be taking some form of pain medication for the foreseeable future. So to me it only makes sense to research all available options - and when it seems relatively safe - careful, journaled experimentation.

fwiw - she hasn't tried it yet. She wants to look into it a little further - and she's seen my face trying to drink the "tea"

Lockedin said:

Ouch! Glad he's ok.

I avoid most pills, and find that I only need strong pain relief a few times a month now - hopefully less as my back rehabs and I re-learn that I'm not 22 anymore....
I had a bad Oxycontin habit (as opposed to a good one?) I developed in my late 30's following an injury - 240+mg snorted daily
After a few months of that - I ran out all at once - no tapering at all. ouch.
A good thing, in retrospect: After that little taste of hell, pills & I have a very different relationship...
Weed is the only thing that I take daily atm.

My Wife however, will be taking some form of pain medication for the foreseeable future. So to me it only makes sense to research all available options - and when it seems relatively safe - careful, journaled experimentation.

fwiw - she hasn't tried it yet. She wants to look into it a little further - and she's seen my face trying to drink the "tea"

Click to expand...

That sucks man. Ya, you gotta do what you gotta do. I hope she finds something to help.

The best way to consume Kratom (IMO) is to fill up 000 capsules with it like you can buy here:

Don't rely on information you read on the mayo clinic website that doesn't even have any citations for their claims.

Sweet spot for new users would be 3-6 grams. You won't get much more benefits by doing morejust increase likelihood of getting dizzy. If you do capsules be ready to swallow 6-8 big ass capsules lol easiest way is to measure out 4-6g and get something to chase it. I started out using Gatorade or chocolate milk but once you get a hang of it you should try to switch to water or you will ruin your teeth if you don't brush immediately after lol. Take a deep breath then put your Kratom on your tongue. You want to take a breath first because if you breath in even a little you will cough the powder everywhere and trust me you don't want that. Once it's on your tongue pour water in your mouth and swish it around a couple seconds until you feel you can swallow it without gaging, then swallow lol at that point you have done your first toss n wash. I was on fent patches after work accident and doctors doped me up 25 hours a day to the point of me not being good for my family. Kratom got me completely off the narcotics and I tapered off the kratom 12-14 months later. I keep some around for flair ups etc but try to stay 4-6.. 4-6 grams every 4-6 hours. Good luck

have u tried using decarboxylated cannabis extract orally yet?
i've been consuming well over a gram a day for over 7 years now.
3 capsules a day right now 400mg each.
not just a pain reliever but will actually heal.
i am interested in kratom and everything else the govt told us was bad.

Be careful ive been trying to quit for almost a year already and my withdrawls are alot worse than any other opiate withdrawls ive had wish i never tried it

Kratom is just as addictive and much less effective as other opioids. Now if you're using strictly to wean yourselves off of pills, then great, I know a few people who have traded pharmaceuticals for Kratom and are much better off for it. That's a good start towards the ultimate goal of quitting. But make no mistake, after a few weeks it will give you zero pain relief and you'll be left servicing an addiction every 6 hours.

REALLY appreciate all of these responses!
All should be read and understood by anyone considering this class of medication.

My Wife tried it and so far reduced the strength of her daily pain med, then reduced the kratom to none. About a week of use .- effectively lowering her tolerance.
And for her, that's the plan for now.

As I said above - I kicked a 240mg oxy habit the hard way a long time ago, alcohol not long after. Not tooting my horn at all - saying that I REALLY FUCKED UP (gentlest terms I can think of) - and learned from the experience.
Hope other people can learn from the "homework" shared here instead of doing their own.

For me - I'm finding kratom has its place when:
Ice / Heat / Stretching / Topicals / A bowl or three / Ibuprofen (about in that order) - don't work - and I need strong medication.
- I grow other things for recreation.
I haven't taken it in a while - no need until today. Kinda jacked myself up playing yesterday and woke up in a bad way.
Took 3 grams - it was that or two of the pills from my last prescription - 5mg opiate / 500mg acetaminophen --- oh, and expired a year ago. Flushed.
Should get me through what's left of work - I should be able to stretch better this evening - the bruises will be reminders of the good time I had!

Lockedin said:

A few years ago my Wife had an injury that's triggered a series of painful surgeries.
She manages her pain pretty well with her current meds plus the weed I grow; but we're always looking for something to help reduce opiate intake.

After researching Kratom for a while, I decided to try it & bought 100 grams of Red Vein Bali Kratom powder.
Here's what I've noticed so far. Other experiences, opinions and advice welcome.

Kratom tastes AWFUL. --- I have yet to figure out how to get the desired dosage (5-8g for me) without just "getting it down" however I can.
--- all recipes welcome!!
--- So far lemonade & kombucha mask the bitterness best, thinking capsules may be the solution...
Kratom works, shockingly well. I find that the above mentioned 5-8g mentioned above acts much like a vicodin or similar opiate.
--euphoria, pain relief, warmth, slight itchiness --- very similar.
--I have taken as much as 15g and found it difficult to get down, caused stomach upset, and wasn't THAT much stronger than the 5-8g range I've been taking.
From reading elsewhere, it seems that there is some risk of addiction, though not as much as opiates.

We're cautiously optimistic that my Wife will be able to use Kratom periodically as a "tolerance reducer" for her pain management schedule.

Click to expand...

I like getting some honey and mushing kratom into it in a bowl, adding enough until it just barley holds the kratom together, like a play dough. I noticed honey mildly increased duration.

I roll them into a capsule shape, they taste so little I could use water, but I still like using orange juice. It takes abit to make, but you won’t really taste a thing.

I usually toss and wash with some kind of citrus juice, if you mix the powder well with the liquid it tastes less bad than mixing the powder in your mouth but that’s how I do it.

some people use oblate it’s like an edible wrap thing, they wrap kratom in it and use it as like a parachute to consume the kratom.

I used to use heroin heavily and use kratom to fill the spot instead of suboxone or methadone. It also helps my mood and pain, the reasons I got into heroin.

I’ve found kratom to be very easy to withdrawal from physically, much easier than harder opiates, but I could easily agree it may feel like coming off codine or trams.

It’s addictive, mentally and physically. Just be aware and be conscious of it.

Buy a pill packer for about $25 and some 00caps which fit a half gram each and watch some YouTube videos. I have been taking Kratom for years. It’s nowhere even near as bad to get off that compared to opiates. You get restlessness and watery nose and eyes but it’s not even close.

BodegaBud said:

Buy a pill packer for about $25 and some 00caps which fit a half gram each and watch some YouTube videos. I have been taking Kratom for years. It’s nowhere even near as bad to get off that compared to opiates. You get restlessness and watery nose and eyes but it’s not even close.

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For me the withdrawls have been alot worse shit sucks

Natem1923 said:

For me the withdrawls have been alot worse shit sucks

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Shit man how much were you taking?? To me I can’t see how anyone can overuse Kratom. I take too much I just feel like shit. Now opiates are a different story LOL