Landraces and "weak lights"

Hey ya'll newbie here and a for sure landrace newbie. I have a selection of mostly Indica landraces and I want to do most if not all indoors.

could I start these plants indoors under t5 lights for the first couple weeks or would that not be a good way to start them, my other option is to start under a 600 watt mh, but if I don't have to... Thanks for any and all insight!

yes you can start them under t5s and seedlings actually love t5s ime but you gotta keep them extremely close like a 1-2 inches away right from the start. light has to be super close when they break soil and they should never touch the actual bulbs or tips will get damaged and even burn so gotta keep an eye on it all the time and since they produce heat unlike leds you shouldn’t let your soil dry out either or the seedlings will die.

crimsonecho said:

yes you can start them under t5s and seedlings actually love t5s ime but you gotta keep them extremely close like a 1-2 inches away right from the start. light has to be super close when they break soil and they should never touch the actual bulbs or tips will get damaged and even burn so gotta keep an eye on it all the time and since they produce heat unlike leds you shouldn’t let your soil dry out either or the seedlings will die.

Click to expand...

Even legit landraces should be okay under t5? I have to be sure as this ones are pretty expensive.

I use a 1000w HID from start to finish. Mainly a 1000w Hortilux HPS, at 24in. I want my plants to grow fast, and they aint gonna grow fast under a T5. It will work yes. It aint optimal.

JBonez420 said:

Even legit landraces should be okay under t5? I have to be sure as this ones are pretty expensive.

Click to expand...

Any cannabis is fine under t5s to start. They are actually excellent for germination, providing the mild light and additional heat the seeds need to germinate well. Here is a good germination guide to get you started right https://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Germination-Guide. Keep in mind, when you start with T5s, the plants get used to that mild light, so be very careful when you switch to another light source-start with more distance than you think they need, then gradually decrease the distance between the plant and light source. Good luck!

jimihendrix1 said:

I use a 1000w HID from start to finish. Mainly a 1000w Hortilux HPS, at 24in. I want my plants to grow fast, and they aint gonna grow fast under a T5. It will work yes. It aint optimal.

Click to expand...

waste of electricity could get same or better results with weaker lamp closer.... unless you have 2x2m of sedlings then its okej XD
allsoo seedlings like blue a lot more than red(HPS)

jimihendrix1 said:

I use a 1000w HID from start to finish. Mainly a 1000w Hortilux HPS, at 24in. I want my plants to grow fast, and they aint gonna grow fast under a T5. It will work yes. It aint optimal.

Click to expand...

They are growing better under t5s

Been using 1000w HID since they came out in 1977- 1978. I used metal halide until Hortilux came out with the Hortilux HPS in the 90s, which is Blue enhanced I dont think its a waste of light either. In nature at high altitude, and along the equator they get blasted with high amounts of light, and UVA/B from day one. I also never get light burn, or leaf cupping ect. No signs of light stress. I also use a Gavita 1150w DE from seedling-flowering with great results. The tems in the rooms I use these lights in ranges from 78f-84f, and I have tremendous fresh air flow.
I also start all my seedlings out with Solacure UVA/B bulbs. 2x 32w bulbs in every 4 x 4 area. And use through flowering.

I used to use 8ft T12 SHO Fluro in the mid 70s before they even had HID, and in no way did they grow better under those lights. Alot more chance of stretching. They dont use as much water, and more chance of damping off.
Seedlings/Marijuana developed in nature to high outputs of light, and UV.
Ecuador, Columbia, have some of the highest amounts of UV ever recorded. Especially Ecuador. Add in High Altitude, and you have extremely high light, and UV levels.

Ive got a mother plant of old Barneys farm G13 x Haze from 2010, and in a 20 gallon container of Promix BX, with 60 days veg, I pull 22oz from 1 plant under 1000w HID from start to finish. In a 4 x 4 area. Only thing I do to the plant is to bend it over, and grow a bush. No topping.... I do shake it vigorously several times a day. Plants are much stronger, and grow faster started under strong light. One thing is though you have to have alot of airflow, or CO2. I also have a breeze going through the garden, so every plant is getting some kind of movement. I dont have a strong wind, but every plant is moving. I also use a fan on seedlings. I usually point the fans between the bulbs, and the plant canopy. Never directly on the plants.

• Clones and seedlings: 5,000–7,000 lux
• Vegetative growth: 15,000–50,000 lux
• Flowering: 45,000–65,000 lux
• Maximum recommended amount of light: 75,000 lux

i know you can achive a shit load more with a 1000W soo yes its a waste of electricity you are probably forced to put it high above the plant covering a huge space and your plant is using 1/10 of light coverage. some better lamps have a knob you turn it to 10% power and enjoy the same growth at lower height for lot less electritiy

jimihendrix1 said:

Been using 1000w HID since they came out in 1977- 1978. I used metal halide until Hortilux came out with the Hortilux HPS in the 90s, which is Blue enhanced I dont think its a waste of light either. In nature at high altitude, and along the equator they get blasted with high amounts of light, and UVA/B.
I also start all my seedlings out with Solacure UVA/B bulbs. 2 in every 4 x 4 area. And use through flowering.

I used to use 8ft SHO Fluro in the mid 70s before they even had HID, and in no way did they grow better under those lights. Alot more chance of stretching. They dont use as much water, and more chance of damping off.

Ive got a cut of old Barneys farm G13 x Haze from 2010, and in a 20 gallon container of Promix BX, with 60 days veg, I pull 22oz from 1 plant under 1000w HID from start to finish. Plants are much stronger started under strong light.

Click to expand...

I have never seen 8ft bulbs maybe is yet to come…

Thank you to all who commented and I hope you all have a wonderful day!! I just wanna give these landraces a real good start.

Bukvičák said:

I have never seen 8ft bulbs maybe is yet to come…

Click to expand...

Theyve been making 8ft T12 bulbs since the 1930s. Super High Output. 75w-110w. Those are what most people used before there were HID bulbs. I used Cool White. 4100k.
T8 didnt come out until 1981. They also make 8ft-T8. Theyre more powerful than the T12s. But werent invented when I used fluroescent. I went to HID when they first came out in 1977-78. The first bulb available was a 1000w Metal Halide that was used in the Navy submarines for growing veggies, because they didnt come up for months at a time. It was so fragile they wouldnt guarantee it in shipping. About 6-8 months later they came out with the Super Nova. It was also 1000w-110,000 lumens. I used those for almost 20 years.

1. 8 ft. - T12 - Fluorescent Tube Lights - The Home Depot
   
   https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lighting-Light-Bulbs
   ...
   Philips 8 ft. 110-Watt T12 Cool White 4100K High Output Linear Fluorescent Tube Light Bulb (2-Pack) Model# 205443. ( 245) $1948. ($9.74 /bulb)

amneziaHaze said:

• Clones and seedlings: 5,000–7,000 lux
• Vegetative growth: 15,000–50,000 lux
• Flowering: 45,000–65,000 lux
• Maximum recommended amount of light: 75,000 lux

i know you can achieve a shit load more with a 1000W soo yes its a waste of electricity you are probably forced to put it high above the plant covering a huge space and your plant is using 1/10 of light coverage. some better lamps have a knob you turn it to 10% power and enjoy the same growth at lower height for lot less electricity

Click to expand...

I use it at 24 inches for seedlings. Veg 20 inches.. In a 4 x 4 area. Flowering I can get them as close as 16-20 inches.

With a 1150w DE Gavita, I have the bulbs at 40 inches throughout. From seedling-flowering.

Clones I use 4ft T8 Cool White Fluroescent, or have the clones 6 feet away from direct light if the HID.

How many lux is the sun??? The sun is anywhere from 32,000 LUX-128,000 Lux. You can bet at the equator, and in the Andes Mountains, its at the higher end of the spectrum. Using the watts, to Lux calculator. A 1000w HPS, in a 4 x 4 area is 78711 lux.

Also like I said, theyre getting more than that on a sunny day, in Ecuador/Columbia, at 8000ft altitude. You also have t have constant fresh air, or CO2, or it is a waste of light.
Ive never had 1 problem growing like this since 1977-78. I also start seedlings-veg on 24/0 light schedule. Every 3 days I turn the lights out for 4 hours to let the ballasts cool of.

Works for me.

i use a LED 60W at 1inch works same. but as i told you if you have a 4x4 then its great. for one plant 1000W is an overkill at seedling stage.

yea you are right about 128 000 lux sun but whenever i plant anything in the summer if its in direct sunlight it will burn to crisps

jimihendrix1 said:

Theyve been making 8ft T12 bulbs since the 1930s. Super High Output. 75w-110w. Those are what most people used before there were HID bulbs. I used Cool White. 4100k.
T8 didnt come out until 1981. They also make 8ft-T8. Theyre more powerful than the T12s. But werent invented when I used fluroescent. I went to HID when they first came out in 1977-78. The first bulb available was a 1000w Metal Halide that was used in the Navy submarines for growing veggies, because they didnt come up for months at a time. It was so fragile they wouldnt guarantee it in shipping. About 6-8 months later they came out with the Super Nova. It was also 1000w-110,000 lumens. I used those for almost 20 years.

1. 8 ft. - T12 - Fluorescent Tube Lights - The Home Depot
   
   https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lighting-Light-Bulbs
   ...
   Philips 8 ft. 110-Watt T12 Cool White 4100K High Output Linear Fluorescent Tube Light Bulb (2-Pack) Model# 205443. ( 245) $1948. ($9.74 /bulb)

Click to expand...

Oh now I see T12…

amneziaHaze said:

i use a LED 60W at 1inch works same. but as i told you if you have a 4x4 then its great. for one plant 1000W is an overkill at seedling stage.

yea you are right about 128 000 lux sun but whenever i plant anything in the summer if its in direct sunlight it will burn to crisps

Click to expand...

When I grow outside I start my seedlings outside in April, in direct sunlight, and have never in 50 years had them burn. Im in Kentucky. I may cover them at ight if its going to get too cold for them. Our last threatening day of frost is May 15th. We also grow corn, tomatoes, pepper plants. and tobacco in open fields, in direct sun with no problems. Ive put plants that were started inside, with no UVA/B, and put them outside in direct sun, and fried them. Total destruction. Ive never had a seedling started outside in direct sun burn.

Bukvičák said:

Oh now I see T12…

Click to expand...

Yes T8 werent invented until 1981. T5 were invented in the 90s.

amneziaHaze said:

i use a LED 60W at 1inch works same. but as i told you if you have a 4x4 then its great. for one plant 1000W is an overkill at seedling stage.

yea you are right about 128 000 lux sun but whenever i plant anything in the summer if its in direct sunlight it will burn to crisps

Click to expand...

I also have a 645w Gavita 1700e I use for veg, at a height of 24 inches. Its 1780umol. They claim 1700, bit it tests closer to 1780umol. The Hortilux 1000w HPS is 1881umol.

How does all that corn, and wheat survive out on the plains in Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, where its flat as a pancake, and no shade at all? It doesnt burn.

okej jimi if i have questions for what will work without any data what is better/best but it just works i will remember you.
to tell somebody to use 1kW lamp to start one seedling that will go outside in a couple of weeks....

amneziaHaze said:

okej jimi if i have questions for what will work without any data what is better/best but it just works i will remember you.
to tell somebody to use 1kW lamp to start one seedling that will go outside in a couple of weeks....

Click to expand...

I dont just start 1 seedling dude. I never stated that. I also mainly use clones. Not seeds. And I also never stated I always run 1 plant per 1000w HID. I said I can get 22oz from 1 plant in a 4 x 4 from an old Barneys Farm G13 X Haze mother I have. I often run 2 plants per 1000w HID in 20 gallon pots, and then I can strategically locate 5 gallon containers around the edges. Running 2 per light requires less veg time. You have to veg 1 clone 2 weeks longer to get 22oz I normally use 3x 1000w Hortilux, or 2x 1000w Hortilux, and 1x 1150w Gavita DE fixture. But it works out best for me if I use 3x 1000w Hortilux HPS bulbs.

Last harvest I used 3x 1000w Hortilux HPS, with 6 plants, all of the same strain in 20 gallon containers, and 5x 5 gallon containers on the edges of the garden. I pulled 83oz. Strain was 2010 G13 x Haze

Between me, and my buddy, we have 12 different mother plants. 1 goes back to year 2000, and is AK47 from a pack of seeds from 1997. It wont produce but 14oz per plant in a 20 gallon container. Maybe 8oz per plant if I run 2 per light. 2 per light usually gives a slightly better harvest. Another is a 2001 NL5, and it will only produce 6oz per plant,, at the most. Closer to 4-5oz in 5 gallon containers.so I use more 5 gallon containers for that strain. Its useless to run it in 20 gallon containers, unless you veg it for 3-4 months. Which 2 months is he max I veg. Usually closer to 45 days if I run 2 of the G13 x Haze per light. Ill run 5x 5 gallon containers with the NL5, and get 20oz-25oz per light with 60 days veg

I vegged all of them last time in 5 gallon containers, under 1000w, and then transplanted 6 of them into 20 gallon containers when I flowered them. They stretch 3-4x their size in 20 gallon containers, and only 1.5-2 times their size if kept in 5 gallon containers. Theyre rootbound in 20 gallon containers by chop time. You can pull the whole container full of medium out of the container in one massive root ball.

Im also running clones, not seeds.

It also wouldnt make sense to run just 1 seed under 1000w, especially if you dont know if its male or female, and I dont do feminized seeds.

But I never said I use 1000w HID. for 1 seedling. You did.