LED lights not doing so good.

At 1700umol and 645w, the Gavita 1700e is rated to run a 4 x 4 area at 24 inches/2 feet height for optimum results, and is a direct replacement for a 1000w HID. Namely Hortilux HPS as it is the highest umol of any Single Ended HID at 1600umol.

Weve run our 1700e at 24 inches recommendations for veg for almost 4 months. We start seedlings under these lights. Unrooted Clones get no direct light from these , and we use the excess side lighting from the LED ( Keep it a good bit away ) for rooting clones vs fluorescent, thought sometimes we use both.

I only ever used the cheapo SE no name MH and HPS bulbs they did a good job. I cannot speak for hortilux as iv'e never used one. However i did use SunXXL "xlarge" reflectors. Do those Gavitas run the same diode these HLG600 do? Forgive me for asking this but when you say 24'inches do you mean at full brightness? What i planned on doing was running 3 HLG600 over the 4x8 at about 60 percent brightness at about 22 inches? The mothers grow into the lights at about 30% brightness and they don't seem to mind. no where near the damage i'm seeing in flower.

The only plants in flower that are doing any good are the ones practically in the shade. they have dusty trichs and small flowers. waiting on the new clones to recover so i can speak on that. the two tables are in isolation from each other

Yes, we run them 100% at 24 inches from the start. Except for rooting clones, and then as with a powerful 1000w Hortilux HID slowly move the rooted clones closer and closer over about a week or so, until they get full light.

We also veg in large containers, and we grow Sativa Dom plants that stretch up to 5x their size. We grow large plants because we are in an unfriendly state, and plant count is important.
We root in 32oz Deli Containers...... From Uline... Way cheaper than 18oz cups... and come in 32oz.... Less than $100 for 500 of them..... We usually veg in a 5 gallon grow bag for 2 months from rooted clone/seedling-veg, and then put the bag down in a 20 gallon bag, or Rubbermaid Container for flowering, and cut the 5 gallon bag off the plant, and now its in a new 20 gallon container. We may veg 1 more week.
If you do slow growing Indica, I dont usually go over a 10 gallon container tops.
We get 20z from a ONE Mr Nice Super Silver Haze clone thats vegged 60 days in 5 gallons Promix BX, under 1000w Hortilux HPS, and flowered 65-70 days under 1000w. 20 gallons PM-BX.

In a month or so we will do a trial run of the Gavita 1700e for flowering. But for veg the 1700e seems to do just as good of a job as a 1000w HID.

But IMHO if one has the proper ventilation, feeding program, theres no reason one cant run those lights at 100% at 24 inches in a 4 x 8.

Gavita ddoes say you can run the 1700e at 36 inches, but generally Ive found one can push the limits pretty good, except for those DE HID. The infrared will fry your plants at anything less than 36 inches.

A 2100umole Gavita Dual Ended 1150w bulb can be run at 36 inches if you can keep it cool. We also run 1150w Gavita DE bulbs. Infrared on these is huge. We use them at 40 inches.

I think the Samsung Diodes LM301b are the same on both the Gavita, and HLG.

We also supplement UVA/B with Solacure Flower Power Bulbs. 4 x 4 ft x 2x 4ft 32w for each 4 x 4 area. Run 8 hours a day at 24 inches, and 12 hours a day a 36-40 inches. We also use these in veg. Clones have to be slowly broken in.
This bulb goes down to 280nm. Very powerful. Has the best glass in the business for transmitting UVA/B at 280nm..... Built in Reflector in the Bulb. Reflecting UVA/B with a normal reflector is Useless.

I wonder. the CNS17 apt don't have any Zinc,Iron among other things. My TDS was only 600 with the MH/HPS with R/O water. Maybe they're actually Underfed? The FloraMicro has everything maybe that needs to be upped? idk just a thought. still waiting for the clones they are @900 TDS right now too early to tell

Guaranteed Analysis: CNS17GROW

• Total Nitrogen (N): 3.0%, 0.14% Ammoniacal Nitrogen, 2.86% Nitrate Nitrogen
• Available Phosphate (P2O5): 2.0%
• Soluble Potash (K2O): 4.0%
• Calcium (Ca): 2.8%
• Magnesium (Mg): 0.5%, 0.5% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
• Sulfur (S): 1.10%, 1.10% Combined Sulfur (S)
• Manganese (Mn): 0.05%, 0.05% Water Soluble Manganese (Mn)
• Molybdenum (Mo): 0.0005%

Okay NVM they are stupid with their label,

Q: If CNS17 is complete, why are some micronutrients not listed on the guaranteed minimum analysis?
A: To comply with state registration regulations certain micronutrients were omitted from the guaranteed minimum analysis on the label due to their concentrations being low in comparison to the macronutrients. CNS17 does contain all essential micronutrients in the formula including boron (B), manganese (Mn), iron (Fe), zinc (Zn), copper (Cu), molybdenum (Mo), and nickel (Ni). When used at the recommended applications rates CNS17 will deliver all essential micronutrients at the proper ratios.

I’m running qb and will never go back to hps since converting. It’s something your doing wrong not the lights, shouldn’t bash a light because you don’t know how to use them properly.

So what are the options if the light can only be 20 inches away from the plants max? I don't have a umol meter. I'm also not really good at math lol

Remember there are 3 of these hlg600rspec lights over a 4x8 area. i didnt plan on running them at 100%

Its hard to think i killed so many by not feeding them enough. It has not been that long and i can already tell that upping the nutrition has dramatically help the situation. I didn't realize how weak the food has been all this time. So far huge difference.

seems like each kind of light requires it's own growing style. perhaps one of the expert LED growers could post instruction about unique problems when growing with LEDs like low grow room temperature or cal-mag deficiency or other problems not common with other lights (not to imply other forms of grow lights don't have their special needs)

newbplantgrower420 said:

why do they demand more MG exactly? whats the scientific reason behind it?

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lack of UVA which help plant absorp calcium and other minerals. some growers supplement their LED or HPS light with UV bulbs or CMH to get UV

Well I stopped using EC meters with HID because after a while i could just tell. i probably ended up feeding them weaker strengths because the HID drove them to drink too much water from all the heat. So the nutes were on the weak end of things anyways. Now with the LED's and CO2 without the intense canopy temps they need more food. On top of that the roots are much healthier. I never have pushed a TDS of more than 900ppm. If anyone has anything to say about the TDS with CO2 and LED's i would like to hear it.

For fun i put 2 hlg320XL over a 4x4 canopy about 8 inches away at 100% brightness just to see how fast/how much it damages them and after 3 days the damage was apparent but nothing like what i have been seeing. I recharged the water chiller with butane and now i can get my 1/4hp chiller to bring the temps of 275 gallons of water in a 87f room down to 67f with 6 45w pumps that run 24/7 but that's the limit. I'm pretty sure the thing was low when they sent it to me so i put stop leak in it too. But my 1/10 hp chiller can only handle 20 gallons with 6 45w pumps in a 90f room and get it down to 66-67. it does work some magic on root quality tho.

As far as UV/A/B/C what about a tanning bed bulb. I though about getting 2 4ft bulbs and running them down the center of the LED lights and running them a few minutes a day. I just put it last on the list of things to do right now because of the other issues

SDK420 said:

i notice some twisting on the leaves. Now i use 2 different ph meters to keep the ph between 5.8 6.1. What else could cause the twisting do you think its the res temps?

here is a pic about 6 days after transplant they are starting to recover but with twisting.

the light are turned up pretty high at 70%@ 30 inches

View attachment 4648183

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Nice set up. I was reading from the beginning glad you figured out they needed to be farther then 18inches. I just got some led, burnt my plants when they where 33inches. I was impressed. I'm on my first run with them the buds are stacking up nice!

SDK420 said:

i notice some twisting on the leaves. Now i use 2 different ph meters to keep the ph between 5.8 6.1. What else could cause the twisting do you think its the res temps?

here is a pic about 6 days after transplant they are starting to recover but with twisting.

the light are turned up pretty high at 70%@ 30 inches

View attachment 4648183

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Thats a 4x8 and your pulling 35grams a plant? What is that 83 plants right there?

norcalreppin77 said:

Nice set up. I was reading from the beginning glad you figured out they needed to be farther then 18inches. I just got some led, burnt my plants when they where 33inches. I was impressed. I'm on my first run with them the buds are stacking up nice!

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Thankyou,
problem is by the time they stretch they are gonna be about 20 inches away from the light. Which is why i put 3 lights over a table so i could get better coverage. I'm sure this go the roots can be ruled out because they look great. I also raised the nute ppm. It does seem like they are doing better with the higher nute ppms. too soon to speak for sure if they will make it this time ill know more in a week. I am fairly certain the lights are good that its something im doing. it is a learning curve i don't have much ceiling height

Under HPS i was getting between 15-35 g's depending on how even the canopy is. I have seen as much as 50 g's on a single cola with 10 dollar HPS bulbs. Most ever pulled on a single table is 4.7 LBS with an indica dom strain with 20 dollars in HPS lights. HPS heats everything up including the earth and im sure u guys are no stranger to $2500 electric bills. i don't need to blow another transformer.

SDK420 said:

Thankyou,
problem is by the time they stretch they are gonna be about 20 inches away from the light. Which is why i put 3 lights over a table so i could get better coverage. I'm sure this go the roots can be ruled out because they look great. I also raised the nute ppm. It does seem like they are doing better with the higher nute ppms. too soon to speak for sure ill know more in a week.

Under HPS i was getting between 15-35 g's depending on how even the canopy is. I have seen as much as 50 g's on a single cola with 10 dollar HPS bulbs. Most ever pulled on a single table is 4.7 LBS with an indica dom strain with 20 dollars in HPS lights. HPS heats everything up including the earth and im sure u guys are no stranger to $2500 electric bills. i don't need to blow another transformer.

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4.7lbs off a 4x8 is bad ass shit. I need to work on getting there. I'm shooting for 2-2.5 right now. I'm running soil so I need to re-evaluate and get on the hydro train.

norcalreppin77 said:

4.7lbs off a 4x8 is bad ass shit. I need to work on getting there. I'm shooting for 2-2.5 right now. I'm running soil so I need to re-evaluate and get on the hydro train.

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Hydroton is a pita to clean. ill give you a tip. weld a short lawnmower blade to a piece of rebar and use it as a stirrer in a mortar mixer in a 50gallon sterlite tub about half full of water. it turns the roots into basically a liquid u can rinse out. then its just shake shake shake under heavy water stream after disinfection

Use a 5gallon bucket with tiny holes in the bottom to submerge into the tub after ur done stirring and drop a pump into the bucket to drain the tub. sorta like a strainer

I'm kind of concerned with the twisting leaves tho. Not sure what to think. i have been using 1g of 56% chlorine a day/every other day. which is suppose to be around 4-5 ppm chlorine. water temps 67. who knows maybe i'm over reacting

I know chlorine reacts with iron and other things. im wondering if its worth using

SDK420 said:

I'm kind of concerned with the twisting leaves tho. Not sure what to think. i have been using 1g of 56% chlorine a day/every other day. which is suppose to be around 4-5 ppm chlorine. water temps 67. who knows maybe i'm over reacting

I know chlorine reacts with iron and other things. im wondering if its worth using

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I havent done alot of hydro or had that problem very often so I couldn't tell ya.

SDK420 said:

maybe you should try a 1000whps. for you people that are getting the same result from the LEDS u must just not be that good at growing

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"U mUsT NoT Be GoOd aT gRoWiNg" says the imbecile who cant grow under an HLG... get a life bud

SDK420 said:

So what are the options if the light can only be 20 inches away from the plants max? I don't have a umol meter. I'm also not really good at math lol

Remember there are 3 of these hlg600rspec lights over a 4x8 area. i didnt plan on running them at 100%

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3 lights:

For 32.0 sqft, used for 12.0 Hours a day, using 3.0 LEDS running at 620.0 watts with an efficacy of 2.5 pf
TOTAL LED PPF output of 4650.0 μmol/m^2/s in a space of 32.0 ft^2 or 2.972896 m^2
Daily Light Integral (DLI) @ 1ft = 68 mol
Totaling at 58 Watts/ft^2
Total Power consumption = 1860.0 Watts/hour
Monthly power consumption = 679 kwh
Monthly Power Costs (NO AC) = 136 moneys. Anually: 1629 moneys
AVG PPFD @ 1.0ft = 1564 μmol
AVG PPFD @ 1.5ft = 1043 μmol
AVG PPFD @ 2.0ft = 782 μmol

Well... Unless you're running CO2 and perfect conditions you may be killing your powerbill and your plants, lol. You can definitely run just two of those and you'll still be doing more than great. They seem to be designed to cover a 4x4 each.

2 of your lights:

Daily Light Integral (DLI) @ 1ft = 45 mol
Totaling at 39 Watts/ft^2
Total Power consumption = 1240.0 Watts/hour
Monthly power consumption = 453 kwh
Monthly Power Costs (NO AC) = 91 moneys. Anually: 1086 moneys
AVG PPFD @ 1.0ft = 1043 μmol
AVG PPFD @ 1.5ft = 695 μmol
AVG PPFD @ 2.0ft = 521 μmol