N deficient? not enough water?

Hey again
Like I said, I'm new haha. Over about the last week I've noticed the original feeder leaves on all of my plants started to get yellow. Being day 21 feom seed now, I didn't think much of it. But, last night I noticed that the original set of serrated leaves were starting to yellow some at the ends, and I noticed it much more this morning. Mostly, the leaves all seem nice and straight, and all the new growth is still looking good, but a couple leaves are slightly curled down. I'm having a bit of a hard time deciding exactly what it is. I think I may have been under watering, as I did a test this morning on a cup of the soil (same size and all, just no plant in it.) and it took about 5 times what I had been watering to get a 20% runout from the bottom (5oz of water for runout in a 16oz cup, and I had been just giving 1oz.) before hitting that, most of the bottom was quite dry. But, I think they may be lacking nitrogen too, as the leaves seem to indicate that more. What do you all think it is? I went ahead and added a bit more nitrogen this morning, and gave them a full watering. Also please not that the browned/missing section in any pictures is definitely from when they got too hot about 10 days ago.

Let me know any thoughts and suggestions you have please!

-Peach

Looks like a little burn and a little overwatered. When I get bigger it should be ok. Wait to water a little longer.

Do you have a way to measure ph?

Looks like nut burn and irregular watering. Those babies as too young for nuts

I think either hungry for nutes, or overwatering (not letting them dry enough between waterings). I'm leaning toward hungry because they're small for 21 days from sprout. They have that "bonsai" appearance which I think indicates hunger. (This is my 20-day from sprout. That's a "2gal" #2 container. The leaves are 12" across.).

What soil do you use? What nutrients do you intend to use? I would do 1/4 to 1/2 strength (not the label, but 1/4 to 1/2 what you would use in full veg.).

EDIT: The prior two posters could be correct. I think it depends on what soil you're using. I think they're way too small for 21 days from sprout (if that's when you began counting days). They look like they're trying to grow, but bonsai'ing.

I thought about over-watering as well, but it seems unlikely to me, just because of the test I did this morning to see how much itd take, and the fact that it took 5x as much as I'd been giving. I unfortunately don't have a way to test ph, but I know ff happy frog is pretty low ph, and with the added nitrogen and our well water, it should be sitting at about 6.5ish is my guess. They're not crispy leaves at all though, except for that part that's browned from the heat that one time. I have been waiting til the soil is fully dry though to water.

That's what I'm leaning towards too. I know they're small for their age for sure compared to other peoples, so I'm really thinking they're lacking nutrients. they're White Widow in 50/50 FF Happy Frog and Ecoscraps, and the nutrients are homemade with coffee grounds, molasses, and powdered phosphoric acid, mixed to about a 2-1-1, and applied in very small amounts. I fed once before, about a week ago, but it was a super small amount. I just fed again this morning thinking it's mostly probably just a nitrogen deficiency.

az2000 said:

I think either hungry for nutes, or overwatering (not letting them dry enough between waterings). I'm leaning toward hungry because they're small for 21 days from sprout. They have that "bonsai" appearance which I think indicates hunger. (This is my 20-day from sprout. That's a 2gal container. The leaves are 12" across.).

What soil do you use? What nutrients do you intend to use? I would do 1/4 to 1/2 strength (not the label, but 1/4 to 1/2 what you would use in full veg.).

EDIT: The prior two posters could be correct. I think it depends on what soil you're using. I think they're way too small for 21 days from sprout (if that's when you began counting days). They look like they're trying to grow, but bonsai'ing.

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I would agree, but you don't measure nut strength by days old, but over-all plant strength. You main problem truely looks like watering irregularity; weak root systems. First pic looks very green.

PeachyBuds said:

I thought about over-watering as well, but it seems unlikely to me, just because of the test I did this morning to see how much itd take, and the fact that it took 5x as much as I'd been giving.

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I don't think that's a good test of watering. Just wait for the container to feel light. Dig a finger 1" into the soil to see if it feels dry. Then water until there's runoff. I like 20% runoff, but when they're young like this it doesn't matter. Especially if you're not feeding anything, then it really doesn't matter. (The runoff is to minimize salt build up, which won't occur if you're not feeding.).

What kind of water? Tap? What is the ppm of your tap water? If you have hard water that will cause problems.

Right, I know nutrients shouldnot be measured by how old they are. I just noticed how slow they were going, and added a very small amount to see if it'd help. I can't think it'd be an issue of over watering. they've only got about an ounce of water per day in these cups, which I found this morning only wets about the top 1/3 of the cup. So maybe the top was over watered and the bottom underwatered?

PeachyBuds said:

in 50/50 FF Happy Frog and Ecoscraps, and the nutrients are homemade with coffee grounds, molasses, and powdered phosphoric acid, mixed to about a 2-1-1, and applied in very small amounts.

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I like soil without nutrients in it. If you want to do a living, organic soil you should hang out on the organics forum. You could be creating acidity with coffee grounds. It's hard to say. IMO it's better to start simple. When there's stuff in the soil, you don't know what it's doing. Maybe transplant into #1 "1gal" containers with a better soil, no "additions" and feed.

Right, it's definitely not a test to see how often to water, just to see how much I should give to get all of the soil moist instead of just part of it. it's tap water that's straight out of our well in CO. i dont have any specific measurements on it, but based on the soI'll it runs through, I'm guessing it's lower ph and has a fair amount of trace minerals.

PeachyBuds said:

So maybe the top was over watered and the bottom underwatered?

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That's possible. Cannabis likes full wet/dry cycles. Let it dry until it's fairly (alarmingly) light. If you use an organic soil, maybe not as light as I like it to be. Then total saturation. Then wait for it to be light again.

okay, I think that'd make some sense. I know they hadn't been getting ample water, but as soon as it was dry 1" deep, I'd water again. prrrrrobably part of the issue. I'm finding more and more today how dry it should get. that'd also explain why it doestrogen so great when I'm gone on the weekend and it gets totally dry!

I'd test well waters pH and find out exactly what it is. Guessing is never a betting hand.

Right, that probably would be good, I've just been too busy lately to get a ph testing kit. Will having it slightly off cause these issues? Think it's too high or too low?

Check ppm,ph & how much roots filled that cup. Its hard to say whats going on but im going with high ppm. Do your tips appear to have a burn coming on?

Run down to the store, buy some MiracleGro Tomato, a #1 container, transplant into soil with a lot of perlite (no coffee please) and feed it a balanced diet. (start with 1/2 tsp/gal and when it responds, move up to 1 tsp/gal. But, you might try less because I don't know what the coffee and stuff is doing for you.).

You can do better than MiracleGro. But, I wouldn't let perfection be the enemy of good right now. You could add some AK Fish to that MG to raise N. But, other than that, I would keep it simple.

I would only dig my finger into the top inch just to confirm the lightness of the container. It takes awhile to get used to what "light" feels like. You can let a more mature plant wilt (leaves droop) to find that "too dry" level and what it feels like. I wouldn't do it with young plants. For now, if it feels light and you don't feel moisture in the first 3/4", then water fully. (I do it in stages. A little to let it saturate. 10-20 minutes later, more until barely runoff. 10 minutes later more runoff. I might be anal about that. But, I like to give it a little time to soak in before getting runoff.).

If you use well water (I missed that point) I would test your ppms. You can get a PPM meter on Amazon for $20-30. If it's hard (mineral deposits in the shower?) you'll need to mix it with reverse-osmosis filtered water for 150ppm.

I don't think ph matters much in soil. Especially when feeding water only, if the water is low-ppm. There's not a lot of ions to pull the soil's pH. Amending 1tsp/gal dolomite lime into the soil before using can help the soil maintain a stable ph (and not have to ph what you pour in). See the link above for the dolomite I use.

SPLFreak808 said:

Check ppm,ph & how much roots filled that cup. Its hard to say whats going on but im going with high ppm. Do your tips appear to have a burn coming on?

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Heres my "high as fuck" "OCD" kicking in....

Not to sound like a complete jerk, but without measuring the exact contents in his home brew, how would he check ppm's? What scale would he use? Would he create his own? If so, how would anyone be able to help. PPM's is not a magical number to follow. It's an estimate on a combination of chemicals, dissolved in water. Then, electrical continuity is tested and multiplied by the ratio the manufacturer chooses.

Again, I get highly medicated on my days off, and this is the shit I think about..

Thank for all of that! I don't think the water is hard. we've never had mineral buildup over 10 years. I didn't think ph would be too big of a deal in soil, but like I said, Im new haha. Also, just curious, what all do you check for in the water? is it just checking for trace minerals, or what? Also, I think I'd rather get FF nutrients, I'm kind of scared of MG from everything I've read haha. Although either way, gaurenteed good nutrition would probably be better than a rough guess of homemade stuff. I'm definitely thinking getting watering down will be part of it, though, and should help make a pretty substantial difference.

Nutrients are nutrients. Pay attention to the NPK ratio (as I linked to). It's just a question of whether you want someone to bottle it up for you into a "lineup" or you do it yourelf with plug-n-play ingredients. And, whether you want more synthetic components, or organic. A lot of people use Jack's Classic. I use Grow More Sea Grow. Either way it's about $1 per plant, per grow. "Lineups" are like fantasy football. You start wearing a jersey and rooting for the team, locked into a proprietary "schedule" without knowing what you're actually feeding. (Before long you're in the Cult of Calmag.).

I prefer something less conforming, less glam, less opaque.

For your first grow, $6 for MG won't be bad. It sounds like you lean towards organic. You could look at doing @uwine99's no-bake soil. I link to it in the "do better" link above (in a footnote at the bottom of that page). I'd like to try that myself!

If well water is common in your area, someone (a nursery) should know what the analysis of the water is. The more important thing (IMO) is ppms. If the're around 150, you're good. It won't matter much if the balance of minerals is off. The amounts will be so low. Where you get hurt is if it's 300 and lots of sodium. Or, if you have some kind of miraculous pure water, like 40ppm. Then you may want to add tiny amounts of gypsum and epsom salt to raise the ppms a little.