NEED HELP Furnace in the same room as Your plants?

Dr. Who said:

The thing with anything in the air.
Is directly related to the cf of space available and how fast that air is turned over. Air quality is generally measured in ppbv or parts per billion by volume, or parts per trillion (million million) by volume (pptv). Pollutant concentrations are also measured by the weight of pollutant within a standard volume of air, for example microgrammes per cubic metre (µgm-3) or milligrammes per cubic metre (mgm-3).

In considering the buildings use before you. How clean is the floor? Has the "spilled" hydrocarbons been cleaned out of it? Someone asked, "Do you "smell" anything when you first enter the space?"
Well, do you?
How much air is turned over and how fast?
3-4 ft of space between the canopy and the light is a bit much but, not the cause of your problem... I would go nearer 2.5 as you have plenty of space for the heat to rise. - Why I ask for canopy temps and bellow. I'm trying to get a handle on your total environment conditions. AND RH is a very important part of that picture......
Then the feeding questions round out the story, along with the media used, nutrients, amounts of and water source.

Answer these questions, and the earlier ones I asked and we may get somewhere faster!

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Dr. Who said:

The thing with anything in the air.
Is directly related to the cf of space available and how fast that air is turned over. Air quality is generally measured in ppbv or parts per billion by volume, or parts per trillion (million million) by volume (pptv). Pollutant concentrations are also measured by the weight of pollutant within a standard volume of air, for example microgrammes per cubic metre (µgm-3) or milligrammes per cubic metre (mgm-3).

In considering the buildings use before you. How clean is the floor? Has the "spilled" hydrocarbons been cleaned out of it? Someone asked, "Do you "smell" anything when you first enter the space?"
Well, do you?
How much air is turned over and how fast?
3-4 ft of space between the canopy and the light is a bit much but, not the cause of your problem... I would go nearer 2.5 as you have plenty of space for the heat to rise. - Why I ask for canopy temps and bellow. I'm trying to get a handle on your total environment conditions. AND RH is a very important part of that picture......
Then the feeding questions round out the story, along with the media used, nutrients, amounts of and water source.

Answer these questions, and the earlier ones I asked and we may get somewhere faster!

Click to expand...

Ok welll this room was suppose to be a completely sealed room with co2 even tho it's a veg room but something obviously wasn't right so I figure if get some fresh air in to help so right now I just have a 8" or 10" (can't remember) inline fan pushing air into the room just to get "some" fresh air to see if it would help but it hasn't helped and I know that probably not enough for this room but it was just a quick way to get at least some fresh air in to see if it would help, with no fan necessarily going out except what naturally is going out through furnace or somehow because of air being pushed in it must be going out somehow.. There's no bad or weird smell in the room there were what seemed to be oil stains on the floor from them working in there the floor was de greased also cleaned with bleach and cleaner many times because of that the floor are still stained in some spots from the what seems to be oil tho Idk if you can see the dark spots some places on the floor.. the RH is 45% - 49% at all times temperature 76 - 79 give or take a .5 I have the rh and temp all hooked up to this greenhouse master controller so it keeps them right there at all times with in my dead band I've set .. I've flushed and tested run off plenty of times in this b type to find out my problem ph is perfect anywhere from 6.0 - 6.4 coming out tested many times.. ppms coming out are always in the high 800s to 950 give or take as i have tested it many of times now and I am in veg, so I'm definitely not burning them .. I'm using pro mix hp as I always have watering every other day or when there dry enough and ready to get watered as I always have I know my wet and dry cycles definitely not over or underwater.. and I am using vegbloom nutes as I have for yeasrs with great results and I havnt changed 1 thing with my feed I've been using this exact formula for 3 years straight (getting 2 a light very happy in my eyes near perfect plants) never once had a problem so it can't be that.. I'm also using ro water like I always did before abd i ecen got a uv sterilizer hooked up to the water now to see if it had something in this new water so the water at this point had to be clean from the ro and the uv sterilizer.. I mean I've even went to the point and bought store bought water and used it on some plants for 3 weeks to a month wasting more money to make sure it wasn't my water with no changes.. thanks for trying to help me figure this headache out.. at this point sometime soon I'm going to have to move at least SOME of these plants out of here or there not even gonna be able to be saved .. like I said before I moved 4 plants to my house all diff strains set up a light and even brang the water and nutes from here to the house to water them so i knew it wasnt the water or what i was feeding it only thing different is the plants arnt sitting in that room anymore and temp asnd humdity in my house isnt even necessarily right its just whatever it is and ALL new growth is green and healthy now.. so there's something in this rooms air that's the ONLY thing that makes any since to me.. thanks again guys for the help sorry for such a long read

Moldy said:

Since you didn't have confidence in the furnace installer, could there be a natural gas leak? Just pondering, your problem is bugging me.

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ya looks like aldehyde poisoning to me,if burner or exchanger r black bingo it has a smell kind of sickly sweet iam a gas tech can smell it a mile away,u get it from burner not adjusted or from chems brought in with combustin air

thumper60 said:

ya looks like aldehyde poisoning to me,if burner or exchanger r black bingo it has a smell kind of sickly sweet iam a gas tech can smell it a mile away,u get it from burner not adjusted or from chems brought in with combustin air

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He's a licensed hvac contractor guy went to college for it and whatnot.. since its hard for me to tell ive asked him hesays theres no way it could be the furnace because as he says he set it up perfectly and knows what he's doing which I can't really tell one way or another on that .. how could I check? I posted a picture of the furnace what do I need to look at or look for to check?

are you using a co2 burner?

Smoke2much4good said:

He's a licensed hvac contractor guy went to college for it and whatnot.. since its hard for me to tell ive asked him hesays theres no way it could be the furnace because as he says he set it up perfectly and knows what he's doing which I can't really tell one way or another on that .. how could I check? I posted a picture of the furnace what do I need to look at or look for to check?

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I used to do HVAC, I would bet money it isn't that. There is a little oil on the heat exchanger that burns off after first use, but other than that. every thing else looks good.

legalcanada said:

are you using a co2 burner?

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I was using one but turned it off at least a month ago and started bringing in some fresh air instead because I thought thst could be the problem and everything's just getting worse still

Smoke2much4good said:

He's a licensed hvac contractor guy went to college for it and whatnot.. since its hard for me to tell ive asked him hesays theres no way it could be the furnace because as he says he set it up perfectly and knows what he's doing which I can't really tell one way or another on that .. how could I check? I posted a picture of the furnace what do I need to look at or look for to check?

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never seen one of those looks like power vent yes ?all I can say is it looks like a off gasing prob to me, I have seen dirty co2 burners make plants look just like yours looks just like lockout

He's here now he says the furnace is seealed combustion it all checks out I guess.. maybe the air being sucked in from the dehumidifier and the air getting sucked upo into the furnace could babe enough pressure to suck up air and gases from the 3 small drains in the room? What do you guys think

Smoke2much4good said:

He's here now he says the furnace is seealed combustion it all checks out I guess.. maybe the air being sucked in from the dehumidifier and the air getting sucked upo into the furnace could babe enough pressure to suck up air and gases from the 3 small drains in the room? What do you guys think

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I really dont think its your furnace.
I'd pour about 5 gal of water down each drain to be sure.

Not sure of scope of these test but you can get air quality test. Think theyre typically $100 might help if there where a certian gas youre looking for. I would only gussing if i tried to tell you what gasses and that doesnt help anyone.


also new "panda" sheeting? is that gassing like those old tents mentioned earlier? that would be an easy test just take some to your healthy plants at home and put under hid.

i just looked at the pictures, i can definitely see calcium deficiency among others. whats your grow medium and do you use calmag? what magnification scope did you use to check leaves, you wont see russet/broad mites until 60x or more. unexplained deficiencies paired with clawing/twisting sounds like russet mites.

do you have strong fans blowing in one spot causing wind burn? whats the temperature in the canopy/leaf surface?

Mmmm, soil less eh? Whats the in-going pH?

Never, ever been a fan of metering runoff.

Do you buffer the RO with a Ca/Mg?

Just how are these watered?

I like the RH but, that higher temp does increase the up-take with that Temp range. Did it run the same at the other location?

I agree with Ed Rosenthal. Gassing in veg is not worth the cost vs. return. Gas in bloom only and shut it down 2 weeks before harvest..... Not part of the issue, just a 2 cent observation.

I would be inclined to set my low temp at 71F and leave the RH alone.
I would run 5 ml of a calcium carbonate based Ca/Mg per gallon to buffer that RO (better pH buffer then other forms of Ca.) Good idea with soil less for better control - in my book.

Is it possible the media is staying damp longer in the new place? pH will swing low and rise back up as media's dry. If it's is staying damp longer, the pH stays lower longer and that brings in plant conditions just like we're seeing in your pic's.

When buying your media. Has the packaging changed? Fair indication the formula may have too. Might need more of a buffer (pH).
That could have several things effecting the situation.

You might bump the N up to buffer the P but, I strongly suspect a slow pH issue is in the mix and that changes everything we see going on.... Soil less should be run twixt, oh 5.7 to 6.2. Start low and let her ride up..... Let me look at the plant pic's again..........

Wow, cold root zone, pH, it's like it could be several things/ mix of things....

How clean is that floor? Off gassing from floor? Have to be quite a bit...

Whats the floors temp? Use or borrow a laser temp gun and be accurate...... Pots sitting directly on floor? Colder roots effect the pot pH more then many think...Not to mention up-take...

Interesting puzzler you gave us.....

Tag, your it again.

legalcanada said:

i just looked at the pictures, i can definitely see calcium deficiency among others. whats your grow medium and do you use calmag? what magnification scope did you use to check leaves, you wont see russet/broad mites until 60x or more. unexplained deficiencies paired with clawing/twisting sounds like russet mites.

do you have strong fans blowing in one spot causing wind burn? whats the temperature in the canopy/leaf surface?

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Not the right look to be broad or russet...

Does look like it could be root aphids..... You can look at roots all you want. Damn hard to "see" them there.... Black spots on roots can be another indication of RA's Best way is to put up a yellow card near the pot at media surface level and look for fliers that look like fungus gnats but, smaller. If you get some. I can post pics. showing the difference.

RA's are a bitch!

Several ways to attack that issue. But we would confirm them first!

Your right, I want canopy temps and root/pot temps. Be great to have mid plant temps too.

Dr. Who said:

Not the right look to be broad or russet...

Does look like it could be root aphids..... You can look at roots all you want. Damn hard to "see" them there.... Black spots on roots can be another indication of RA's Best way is to put up a yellow card near the pot at media surface level and look for fliers that look like fungus gnats but, smaller. If you get some. I can post pics. showing the difference.

RA's are a bitch!

Several ways to attack that issue. But we would confirm them first!

Your right, I want canopy temps and root/pot temps. Be great to have mid plant temps too.

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I took 4 of the worst looking ones home and set a light up and all the new growth is lush and green healthy as can be after a couple weeks .. If it were root aphids or mites they would still be with the plants obviously right? The very top of the plants reads 81 - 82 when the rest of the room said 77 degrees also I have pots on these root platform things that are keeping them 2 to 3 inches off the ground also in saucers so there not judt sitting on the floor, the ph of water going in is always 5.8 or 5.9 with the occasional 6.0 usually try to stay at 5.8 or 5.9 seemed to always work great before .. everything I did seemed to work great before and i havnt changed a thing besides what room the plants are in basically

gotta be something in the air

Dr Magill said:

gotta be something in the air

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Yeah, that pretty much seals that......

Dr. Who said:

Yeah, that pretty much seals that......

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yep

What should i do now ? You seen picture of the room could it have anything to do with the insulation on the one wall and on the ceiling... I plugged the drains with spray foam last night just in case stuff was coming up from the sewer or drains .. I have other bigger drains in other rooms in this building though since it was a auto shop basically auto zone a few rooms have big long drains but in this particular room there smaller but still 3 smaller circular ones like I said I filled in last night.. the furnace I guess is at complete combustion he says he was just there yesterday to check it ca even monoxide checks out it's reading at 0 .. I don't really know what to do at this point, I wish it were bugs at least I would no what my problem was

What kind of lights are you running and what's the watts per square foot in the warehouse? And what about at your house?

If the warehouse lighting is stronger you could be starving your plants. RH is low and so is temp, could be transpiration

Air quality is another avenue.

Gotta narrow down what's different between the warehouse and your house.

ttystikk said:

What kind of lights are you running and what's the watts per square foot in the warehouse? And what about at your house?

If the warehouse lighting is stronger you could be starving your plants. RH is low and so is temp, could be transpiration

Air quality is another avenue.

Gotta narrow down what's different between the warehouse and your house.

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Sorry it took so long to reply been kind of busy with some other things .. but at my old grow I always used 1000s sometime dialed down to 750 sometimes not.. and I'm using same thing this time dialed down to 750 right now in veg each one covering about a 5x5 area give or take some inches... that's cant be my problem.. the humidity is always about 45% with temp from 76 - 79 maybe that's not perfect but I know that isn't going to mess the plants up like this, in the past I've grown in horribly uncontrollable conditions before temps in the 90s humidity to low humidity to high and never had a problem like this ever... It hads to be something with air quality something is in the air how would i ever figure out what it is though? Could it gave anything to do with all this insulation... I have no clue .. I'm thinking about putting up new walls around this whole room like making a room inside a room with insulation and everything I don't know what else to do I figure that might stop whatever it is in here but then again it might not even help..