Need help with my first supersoil for Autoflowers.

G

Ganjedi

Active Member
Hello everyone !

So a little background of where I'm at and what I've done till now :
I'm from Asia and its illegal to grow here so there are no supplies available specifically for growing cannabis ... I am currently mid way with my first grow ... I have a 2x4 feet area, not light proof and no tent so I can only do autoflowers ... I built a 320W DIY LED Strip Light.... I went to the local nursery and they only had cheap soil mixed with some manure ... got like 5 gallon worth of soil for like 3$ , so it was really cheap and nothing to talk about ... I wanted to grow organically but I didnt know anything so I just bought soil and a packet of Vermicompost and currently I have a GSC auto at 2 months old and Walter White auto at about a month old ... all I have given them is water and vermicompost sprinkled on top once a week or so ... GSC is stunted due to underwatering or rootbound due to bad aeration in the soil... Walter White is doing fine but I can see that my plants definitely need some food to get huge like everyone else has on this forum ... so I researched quite a bit about organics and decided it would be best to make my own supersoil with base ingredients available for normal hobby grower around here. I am trying to do a perpetual grow where in I am assuming that I will be successfully planting one autoflower every month and harvesting one every month , so 3 autoflowers in total at any given time at different stages of life (1 month apart) ... assuming that 3 months is an average time for autoflowers.

I came across supersoil recipe that Daz from Mephisto/NightOwl has been using for 5+ years for autoflowers , bottom half supersoil and top half normal soil water only with 5gal pots... I have 5 gallon fabric pots and I think I would like to try out his recipe since I have autoflower seeds from Mephisto Genetics and if hes using this supersoil recipe for those autoflowers successfully then I guess things should go smoothly.

Daz posted this recipe on his instagram I suppose , with instructions as below :


Hey guys,

Here is the autoflower super soil recipe I've been using over the last 6 or 7 years. Be sure to always wear proper eye, skin, and respiratory protection when handling these ingredients!!!

50 lbs Bone Meal

50 lbs Blood Meal

50 lbs Bat Guano

24 lbs Sulfate of Potash (12 lbs granular, 12 lbs fine)

15 lbs Dolomite Lime

10 lbs Epsom Salt

10 lbs Azomite

5 lbs Humic Acid

I've used standard bone meal, as well as a mix of half fish bone meal and half traditional with great results.

My brand preferences for inputs are:

Bone Meal- Down to Earth

Blood Meal- Down to Earth

Bat Guano- Primal Harvest from Earth Juice

Sulfate of Potash- Protassium

Dolomite Lime- Down to Earth

Epsom Salt- Magriculture

Azomite- Azomite Mineral Products

Humic Acid- The Andersons Humic DG

I use a cement mixer to combine the ingredients. Since the mixer cannot fit the total amount of all the ingredients at the same time I divide the recipe by 4 and mix a quarter of the total at a time. Here is what actually goes into the mixer:

12.5 lbs Bone Meal

12.5 lbs Blood Meal

12.5 lbs Bat Guano

6 lbs Sulfate of Potash

3.75 lbs Dolomite Lime

2.5 lbs Epsom Salt

2.5 lbs Azomite

1.25 lbs Humic Acid

I cover the opening of the cement mixer with a heavy trash bag and secure it around the rim with whatever I have handy (rubberized garden wire, twine, etc.) This minimizes any nutrient dust escaping into the air once the cement mixer is in motion. I turn the mixer on for about 40 minutes, then shut it off and let the dust settle for about 15 minutes before removing the ready to use super soil mix.

Again, be sure you use proper eye, skin, and respiratory protective gear whenever handling these ingredients or mixing soil.

To use, simply add 2 Tablespoons of mix per gallon of premium potting soil, preferably Roots Organic Original @rootsorganics Blend the soil and mix until the ammendments are distributed throughout. This is now ready to use Autoflower Super Soil. Layer the bottom half of your pot with the Autoflower Super Soil and the top half with unammended soil. Plant, water, and enjoy the results!*Additional Notes*-Earthworm Castings are great! I use them at up to 30%-This mix can be used with coco. Instead of having two layers, as described above, you should use three layers. Full strength Super Coco in the bottom 1/3rdof the pot (2 Tbs per gallon), 1/2 strength in the middle 1/3rd of the pot (1 Tbs per gallon), and straight coco in the top 1/3rd of the pot.

I prefer to use this in 5 gallon pots, but have seen @roningarden crush it with 1.5 gallons, and others use 7 gallons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now heres what I need help with :

1) Cant find Bat Guano where I live , what can I use to replace it ?
2) Cant find Azomite , not sure if Azomite is a brand or name of a product or what but I can find rock dust used in gardening on local amazon if its the same thing
3) Daz doesnt mention if the soil needs to be cooked... but I am aware that I need to cook this soil for 2 months to have good microbe population in the soil... how do I recycle/reuse/amend the soil and how do I physically set it up to have a perpetual flow of soil ... I will be using 5 gallon fabric pots and will have 3 pots running max , thats 15 gallons of media. Will I need 1 big container that will hold soil and cook it or have small containers with 1 pot worth media cooking perpetually ?

Rest of the ingredients are available on local amazon , just not the premium branded ones mentioned in the recipe above but local gardening grade products.

Thanks for reading such a long post but I thought giving the whole picture would make it easier for everyone to advice better.

Found you guys knowledgeable and helpful so tagging in hope of help/guidance @kratos015 @Richard Drysift
 
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Southernontariogrower

Southernontariogrower

Well-Known Member
If you can get unpasteurized milk you can make lactic acid bacterium. Two cups of rice in luke warm water, shake vigorously for 5 minutes, pour off water into jar, put paper towel on top with elastic band, place in warm spot for about 3 days, until you have 3 layers. Scum on bottom is not used, pour into 2 or 3 gallons of milk cover with breathable lid like towel, let sit at room temp for 4 or 5 days, remove top of mixture, should be very firm, you can make cheese out of this if you desire. The yellowish liquid is what your after, strain with cheesecloth, this is a probiotic. 1 tablespoon per gallon. Can be sprayed for powdery mildew or as foliar feed also. You can use for self and animals, very good for stomach. Plants love it!
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
he doesn't specify what type of guano, it can be high in n/p/k in practically any combo, but it's probably high P...so you could probably replace it with soft rock phosphate I'm thinking. Fish bone meal is great stuff too, if you are able to get it.
 
G

Ganjedi

Active Member
Southernontariogrower said:
If you can get unpasteurized milk you can make lactic acid bacterium. Two cups of rice in luke warm water, shake vigorously for 5 minutes, pour off water into jar, put paper towel on top with elastic band, place in warm spot for about 3 days, until you have 3 layers. Scum on bottom is not used, pour into 2 or 3 gallons of milk cover with breathable lid like towel, let sit at room temp for 4 or 5 days, remove top of mixture, should be very firm, you can make cheese out of this if you desire. The yellowish liquid is what your after, strain with cheesecloth, this is a probiotic. 1 tablespoon per gallon. Can be sprayed for powdery mildew or as foliar feed also. You can use for self and animals, very good for stomach. Plants love it!
Click to expand...
Hmm thanks for the recipe , this is for the bat guano replacement ? I was looking for something like a dry amendment which I can add up like the other ingredients since I will be cooking/using new batch of soil every month ... making a liquid will probably mean I will have keep making it over and over again (guessing the shelf life wont be like other dry inputs)

Rurumo said:
he doesn't specify what type of guano, it can be high in n/p/k in practically any combo, but it's probably high P...so you could probably replace it with soft rock phosphate I'm thinking. Fish bone meal is great stuff too, if you are able to get it.
Click to expand...
I would also assume its the high P variant for some reason :p
Yes I saw fish bone meal on local amazon site , Daz also said he used it before ... I can either go for fish bone meal or just bone meal or a combination of both.
Would rock phosphate replace bat guano with the same quantity ?
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Ganjedi said:
Hmm thanks for the recipe , this is for the bat guano replacement ? I was looking for something like a dry amendment which I can add up like the other ingredients since I will be cooking/using new batch of soil every month ... making a liquid will probably mean I will have keep making it over and over again (guessing the shelf life wont be like other dry inputs)



I would also assume its the high P variant for some reason :p
Yes I saw fish bone meal on local amazon site , Daz also said he used it before ... I can either go for fish bone meal or just bone meal or a combination of both.
Would rock phosphate replace bat guano with the same quantity ?
Click to expand...
I found this site that compares Subcool's new super soil to his old recipe-it will give you an idea of what ratio to Rock Phosphate to use-it looks like he uses less, maybe 2/3 the amount. Your recipe seems like a version of Subcool's recipe, so this might give you some ideas. https://www.paramountseedfarms.com/super-soil-recipes/
 
lakesidegrower

lakesidegrower

Well-Known Member
If you are rolling with that recipe I'd cook for at least a month, two would be better, Blood and bone meal are both very hot and need some time. Totally agree with the fishbone meal being a great choice, but also hot and takes time to become available in the soil, so cook time will help with that as well.

You should be able to find azomite on amazon as well - some people have moved away from azomite because it can contain heavy metals. You can use galacail rock dust, gypsum, there's also some good beings out there.

Curious about how rock phosphate compares to guano as well... don't know much about rock phosphate but heard good things. By weight, guano seems to have about triple the amount of P
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
1) chicken or cow manure works as slow release fertilizer; seabird guano is an alternative...lots of options here. Use whatever you can easily source. Growers like guano mostly due to it’s concentrated NPK but there’s a million other forms of animal poo based fertilizer; just be sure it’s fully decomposed
2) rock dust, soft rock phosphate, basalt, Dolomite lime. Azomite is not required but you want a mineral input or two
3) 30 days cook time is needed whenever you add a lot of raw organic material; gives time for whatever you added in to break down and for ph to normalize.
Use 2 tote bins: one for cooking off recently amended soil and the other is for storing spent root balls awaiting recycle
 
G

Ganjedi

Active Member
Richard Drysift said:
1) chicken or cow manure works as slow release fertilizer; seabird guano is an alternative...lots of options here. Use whatever you can easily source. Growers like guano mostly due to it’s concentrated NPK but there’s a million other forms of animal poo based fertilizer; just be sure it’s fully decomposed
2) rock dust, soft rock phosphate, basalt, Dolomite lime. Azomite is not required but you want a mineral input or two
3) 30 days cook time is needed whenever you add a lot of raw organic material; gives time for whatever you added in to break down and for ph to normalize.
Use 2 tote bins: one for cooking off recently amended soil and the other is for storing spent root balls awaiting recycle
Click to expand...
Thanks Richard , your inputs are invaluable as always !

Just further clarification on your advice :
1) So if replace high P Bat Guano with chicken or cow manure how do I go about with quantity ? I was planning Soil/Perlite/Vermicompost (1/3-1/3-1/3)
2) Do I directly replace Azomite with rock dust (or a combination of rock dust and something else) with the same amount as mentioned in the recipe ?
3) I was thinking about it just now and realized that maybe Daz didnt say anything about cooking the super soil because it is in the bottom half of the pot and it will probably take around a month for the roots to reach that far out ? But on the other hand I am thinking if thats the case then how do you keep the bottom half of the container moist as you wont be watering the whole 5 gallon pot in the early stages of the autoflower (I plant my seeds directly in the 5 gallon pot like many do with autoflowers)
Hmm I like the idea about using root balls , great advice. So this other container with root balls , what all do I put into that container and how long does it take for a root ball to completely break down and be ready for use ? I dont have worms or anything of that sort, I'm assuming that the microorganisms will be able to break down the root balls ?
 
G

Ganjedi

Active Member
lakesidegrower said:
If you are rolling with that recipe I'd cook for at least a month, two would be better, Blood and bone meal are both very hot and need some time. Totally agree with the fishbone meal being a great choice, but also hot and takes time to become available in the soil, so cook time will help with that as well.

You should be able to find azomite on amazon as well - some people have moved away from azomite because it can contain heavy metals. You can use galacail rock dust, gypsum, there's also some good beings out there.

Curious about how rock phosphate compares to guano as well... don't know much about rock phosphate but heard good things. By weight, guano seems to have about triple the amount of P
Click to expand...
Yes definitely planning to at least cook the soil for 1 month. I am also planning to use fish bone meal instead of bone meal just to add some aquatic diversity in my mix hehe. Or would it better to go half bone meal and half fish bone meal ?

When I search for glacial rock dust only one product comes up in my country - 'Organic Phosphate Rock/Calcium Phosphate Powder, 0-30-0' ... is this what I'm looking for ?
 
lakesidegrower

lakesidegrower

Well-Known Member
Ganjedi said:
Yes definitely planning to at least cook the soil for 1 month. I am also planning to use fish bone meal instead of bone meal just to add some aquatic diversity in my mix hehe. Or would it better to go half bone meal and half fish bone meal ?

When I search for glacial rock dust only one product comes up in my country - 'Organic Phosphate Rock/Calcium Phosphate Powder, 0-30-0' ... is this what I'm looking for ?
Click to expand...
I’d go with fish bone meal, may be some extra microbes there but probably not a ton given it’s processed.

I honestly don’t know a ton about rock phosphate, maybe glacial rock dust is more of a thing here in Canada. You can also use basalt, gypsum, oyster shell flour.
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Ganjedi said:
Thanks Richard , your inputs are invaluable as always !

Just further clarification on your advice :
1) So if replace high P Bat Guano with chicken or cow manure how do I go about with quantity ? I was planning Soil/Perlite/Vermicompost (1/3-1/3-1/3)
2) Do I directly replace Azomite with rock dust (or a combination of rock dust and something else) with the same amount as mentioned in the recipe ?
3) I was thinking about it just now and realized that maybe Daz didnt say anything about cooking the super soil because it is in the bottom half of the pot and it will probably take around a month for the roots to reach that far out ? But on the other hand I am thinking if thats the case then how do you keep the bottom half of the container moist as you wont be watering the whole 5 gallon pot in the early stages of the autoflower (I plant my seeds directly in the 5 gallon pot like many do with autoflowers)
Hmm I like the idea about using root balls , great advice. So this other container with root balls , what all do I put into that container and how long does it take for a root ball to completely break down and be ready for use ? I dont have worms or anything of that sort, I'm assuming that the microorganisms will be able to break down the root balls ?
Click to expand...
1. Put about a handful per container; it’s slow release so it won’t burn. Don’t overthink it too much; no need to be super accurate
2. Yes
3. Daz sounds like kind of a douche, not sure why you follow anyone on Instagram for weed growing advice. Layering your containers is a thing but you can still do that after your base soil is fully cooked and ready to grow. I would still transplant once or twice even with autos.
Vermicompost is worm castings. That’s all you need....it takes 30 days for whatever organic inputs you add in at each recycle to normalize the ph.
 
G

Ganjedi

Active Member
Richard Drysift said:
1. Put about a handful per container; it’s slow release so it won’t burn. Don’t overthink it too much; no need to be super accurate
2. Yes
3. Daz sounds like kind of a douche, not sure why you follow anyone on Instagram for weed growing advice. Layering your containers is a thing but you can still do that after your base soil is fully cooked and ready to grow. I would still transplant once or twice even with autos.
Vermicompost is worm castings. That’s all you need....it takes 30 days for whatever organic inputs you add in at each recycle to normalize the ph.
Click to expand...
Well I keep lurking around Mephisto's reddit to get a hold of their seeds and saw a post about Daz's supersoil recipe from his instagram , I personally dont even use instagram :p ; and the only reason I thought/decided to use this recipe is because the breeder himself uses this recipe for his seeds so it was kinda silly not to try that out first.

Hmm I might try transplanting once I get more experience , just on my first grow right now so kinda doing things easy to avoid mistakes. Also the bin with worm castings and root balls , how long till they break down completely ? Or do I keep adding a bit of those castings into my soil and let the rest of the rootball break up over time ?

Another thing , this recipe involves good Roots Organic soil which has a lot of inputs added to it , different meals which I wont be having in my mix since I will be getting pure soil ... do I account for that or it wont make much difference ?

Quick google search gave the ingredients used in ROOTS ORGANICS ORIGINAL POTTING SOIL

INGREDIENTS
Perlite, Coco Fiber, Peat Moss, Composted Forest Material, Pumice, Worm Castings, Bat Guano, Soybean Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Fishbone Meal, Kelp Meal, and Greensand. Also contains beneficial mycorrhizal fungi: Funneliformis mosseae, Rhizophagus intraradices, Septoglomus desertícola to enhance uptake of plant nutrients, increase root biomass, and help container grown plants resist stress.

I know I'm over thinking things , but dont wanna end up doing things and finding out I didnt put enough time/effort trying to figure things out ... I know it takes time to get things right over a few grows but wanted to at least start off solid. Thanks as always !
 
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osowhom

osowhom

Well-Known Member
Ganjedi said:
Hello everyone !

So a little background of where I'm at and what I've done till now :
I'm from Asia and its illegal to grow here so there are no supplies available specifically for growing cannabis ... I am currently mid way with my first grow ... I have a 2x4 feet area, not light proof and no tent so I can only do autoflowers ... I built a 320W DIY LED Strip Light.... I went to the local nursery and they only had cheap soil mixed with some manure ... got like 5 gallon worth of soil for like 3$ , so it was really cheap and nothing to talk about ... I wanted to grow organically but I didnt know anything so I just bought soil and a packet of Vermicompost and currently I have a GSC auto at 2 months old and Walter White auto at about a month old ... all I have given them is water and vermicompost sprinkled on top once a week or so ... GSC is stunted due to underwatering or rootbound due to bad aeration in the soil... Walter White is doing fine but I can see that my plants definitely need some food to get huge like everyone else has on this forum ... so I researched quite a bit about organics and decided it would be best to make my own supersoil with base ingredients available for normal hobby grower around here. I am trying to do a perpetual grow where in I am assuming that I will be successfully planting one autoflower every month and harvesting one every month , so 3 autoflowers in total at any given time at different stages of life (1 month apart) ... assuming that 3 months is an average time for autoflowers.

I came across supersoil recipe that Daz from Mephisto/NightOwl has been using for 5+ years for autoflowers , bottom half supersoil and top half normal soil water only with 5gal pots... I have 5 gallon fabric pots and I think I would like to try out his recipe since I have autoflower seeds from Mephisto Genetics and if hes using this supersoil recipe for those autoflowers successfully then I guess things should go smoothly.

Daz posted this recipe on his instagram I suppose , with instructions as below :


Hey guys,

Here is the autoflower super soil recipe I've been using over the last 6 or 7 years. Be sure to always wear proper eye, skin, and respiratory protection when handling these ingredients!!!

50 lbs Bone Meal

50 lbs Blood Meal

50 lbs Bat Guano

24 lbs Sulfate of Potash (12 lbs granular, 12 lbs fine)

15 lbs Dolomite Lime

10 lbs Epsom Salt

10 lbs Azomite

5 lbs Humic Acid

I've used standard bone meal, as well as a mix of half fish bone meal and half traditional with great results.

My brand preferences for inputs are:

Bone Meal- Down to Earth

Blood Meal- Down to Earth

Bat Guano- Primal Harvest from Earth Juice

Sulfate of Potash- Protassium

Dolomite Lime- Down to Earth

Epsom Salt- Magriculture

Azomite- Azomite Mineral Products

Humic Acid- The Andersons Humic DG

I use a cement mixer to combine the ingredients. Since the mixer cannot fit the total amount of all the ingredients at the same time I divide the recipe by 4 and mix a quarter of the total at a time. Here is what actually goes into the mixer:

12.5 lbs Bone Meal

12.5 lbs Blood Meal

12.5 lbs Bat Guano

6 lbs Sulfate of Potash

3.75 lbs Dolomite Lime

2.5 lbs Epsom Salt

2.5 lbs Azomite

1.25 lbs Humic Acid

I cover the opening of the cement mixer with a heavy trash bag and secure it around the rim with whatever I have handy (rubberized garden wire, twine, etc.) This minimizes any nutrient dust escaping into the air once the cement mixer is in motion. I turn the mixer on for about 40 minutes, then shut it off and let the dust settle for about 15 minutes before removing the ready to use super soil mix.

Again, be sure you use proper eye, skin, and respiratory protective gear whenever handling these ingredients or mixing soil.

To use, simply add 2 Tablespoons of mix per gallon of premium potting soil, preferably Roots Organic Original @rootsorganics Blend the soil and mix until the ammendments are distributed throughout. This is now ready to use Autoflower Super Soil. Layer the bottom half of your pot with the Autoflower Super Soil and the top half with unammended soil. Plant, water, and enjoy the results!*Additional Notes*-Earthworm Castings are great! I use them at up to 30%-This mix can be used with coco. Instead of having two layers, as described above, you should use three layers. Full strength Super Coco in the bottom 1/3rdof the pot (2 Tbs per gallon), 1/2 strength in the middle 1/3rd of the pot (1 Tbs per gallon), and straight coco in the top 1/3rd of the pot.

I prefer to use this in 5 gallon pots, but have seen @roningarden crush it with 1.5 gallons, and others use 7 gallons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now heres what I need help with :

1) Cant find Bat Guano where I live , what can I use to replace it ?
2) Cant find Azomite , not sure if Azomite is a brand or name of a product or what but I can find rock dust used in gardening on local amazon if its the same thing
3) Daz doesnt mention if the soil needs to be cooked... but I am aware that I need to cook this soil for 2 months to have good microbe population in the soil... how do I recycle/reuse/amend the soil and how do I physically set it up to have a perpetual flow of soil ... I will be using 5 gallon fabric pots and will have 3 pots running max , thats 15 gallons of media. Will I need 1 big container that will hold soil and cook it or have small containers with 1 pot worth media cooking perpetually ?

Rest of the ingredients are available on local amazon , just not the premium branded ones mentioned in the recipe above but local gardening grade products.

Thanks for reading such a long post but I thought giving the whole picture would make it easier for everyone to advice better.

Found you guys knowledgeable and helpful so tagging in hope of help/guidance @kratos015 @Richard Drysift
Click to expand...
are you sure you cant get bat guano online? to me personally that is the number 1 important ingredient but thats just me
 
WakeBake

WakeBake

Active Member
Same problems for me. Growing in India mate like you. Our Amazon sucks. I am also starting with the organic soil. Nothing super but just as living as possible. All the best
 
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