Optimum Spectrum for Veg?

rkymtnman said:

So I know chinese blurples are crap but...

viparspectra V series has these diodes:
730, 660, 630, 615, 595, 580, 475, 460, 445, 440.
also 3000K and 7500K.

sounds like this ticks a lot of boxes as far as the hyper red , far red and blue aspects.

and it's only $55 delivered to cover my 2x2 tent.

thoughts?

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I'm curious about what these guys think about this as well, more specifically the use of these specific nm diodes as compared to the white light spectrum's that most people seem to be using these days.

I have very little experience growing and am not in a good situation to experiment so can't offer much as far as accurate comparisons of finer details (strech/internode length for example), but the last two mj grows I vegged/flowered under my gla highlight boards. The plants seemed to grow very healthy even through all my grower errors and lack of proper attention to them. I wish I were in a better situation to be able to try things out specifically on some cannabis plants, but still a ways away from doing that. That said, I do have tons of different spectrums/cri options (more than I would like to admit from grabbing "sale" items along with other things) and could set up my two smaller tents to grow out some kale's or something a little more legal friendly if you all wanted to see something specific. I know there is tons of info to be had all over the internet pertaining to these, but just figured I'd offer it up if anything specific came to mind, plus it'd give me something to do after this grow is done and I figure out what happens next when the lease is up in a couple months.

loco41 said:

I'm curious about what these guys think about this as well, more specifically the use of these specific nm diodes as compared to the white light spectrum's that most people seem to be using these days

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Bingo!
me too.
i have a 4k HLG QB120 that i've been using in my veg tent. it works very well. but is something else better for veg?? i've got an old 90w UFO led that is like 7:1:1 ratio red blue white and it vegges very well too (maybe too much red though?)

rkymtnman said:

for my untrained eye, i think the 12 or 25 look the healthiest as far as foliage growth AND root growth combined?

and it looks like the ,7 and .73 look the "best" to me as well.

so assuming that, what light would give you the "easiest" combination of both of those factors: blue % and FR????
thoughts everybody??

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12 or 25 looks best to me too, right in line with what bugbee said with his 20%.
for the FR, idk, lots is simply stems, i may would prefer the EOD one.
Overall it looks to me that FR is the more powerfull tool.

Kassiopeija said:

I believe FR is a powerful tool to induce stretch and increase interrnode length, so if you want to keep things short in veg I'd so, yes, just a little. Otherwise you need excessive amounts of blue to counterbalance, but does this investment pay off as the high-K light is commonly listed having less quanta of photons per J or radiant flux. The red light is just so efficient to be produced as it holds less energy, but, still enough for photosynthesis.

From mid-flower on an more pronounced usage of FR could result in more total biomass, incl. stems, buds, and faster ripening (earlier harvest). But there have also been studies done which contradicted the benefits, but this light seems to cause several independant functions and its plenty in the sun, esp. relatively more in autumn in regards to the other colors. and blue less.

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agree, not even sure if one can give enough blue to counterblanace high amounts of FR, while green seems to be another player in the game as your pictures showing.
You sum that up good, i think in veg FR helps to fill the space quickly, while having less budsites and overall more stem, not always desired.

rkymtnman said:

So I know chinese blurples are crap but...

viparspectra V series has these diodes:
730, 660, 630, 615, 595, 580, 475, 460, 445, 440.
also 3000K and 7500K.

sounds like this ticks a lot of boxes as far as the hyper red , far red and blue aspects.

and it's only $55 delivered to cover my 2x2 tent.

thoughts?

Click to expand...

could offer some more lower blues.
is there a spectrum graph to see the ratios better?
think the main problem with this light is maybe its sotneage tech giving not much more then a ppfd a watt?

Kassiopeija said:

agreed, and the 6.25 could be interpreted to resemble HPS growth?

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i think HPS offers way less then 6 percent blue, 6% is more like 3000k led wasnt it?
would need to look that up ,i forgot it, maybe someone is just in to this and have the numbers?
at least, were reaching quite easy levels of blue which basically should work fine to my view.

edit: from migro


not sure if the migro is 3500k or 3000k 80cri led.

loco41 said:

I'm curious about what these guys think about this as well, more specifically the use of these specific nm diodes as compared to the white light spectrum's that most people seem to be using these days.

I have very little experience growing and am not in a good situation to experiment so can't offer much as far as accurate comparisons of finer details (strech/internode length for example), but the last two mj grows I vegged/flowered under my gla highlight boards. The plants seemed to grow very healthy even through all my grower errors and lack of proper attention to them. I wish I were in a better situation to be able to try things out specifically on some cannabis plants, but still a ways away from doing that. That said, I do have tons of different spectrums/cri options (more than I would like to admit from grabbing "sale" items along with other things) and could set up my two smaller tents to grow out some kale's or something a little more legal friendly if you all wanted to see something specific. I know there is tons of info to be had all over the internet pertaining to these, but just figured I'd offer it up if anything specific came to mind, plus it'd give me something to do after this grow is done and I figure out what happens next when the lease is up in a couple months.

Click to expand...

sounds like youre in a postion to test how leafy greens grow under certain conditions.
we just need to pick a good plant, same category as hemp.
no tomato, they simply take it all and no basil, theyre saturated too quick.

cobshopgrow said:

could offer some more lower blues.
is there a spectrum graph to see the ratios better?
think the main problem with this light is maybe its sotneage tech giving not much more then a ppfd a watt?

Click to expand...

well, just so happen i had $55 left from Santa. i'll take one for the team. should be here in aweek.

no graph that i saw. it just labels each diode as to what it is so you count them just looking at the pic.

maybe the eyes can tell at least which spectrum it roughly is.
they will prob be quite different strong radiating depending on the color.
but well, if you have the space why not test it its really no fortune to spend.

cobshopgrow said:

it its really no fortune to spend

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that's what i think too. if it sucks, i can use it to start my veggie seeds this spring.

cobshopgrow said:

sounds like youre in a postion to test how leafy greens grow under certain conditions.
we just need to pick a good plant, same category as hemp.
no tomato, they simply take it all and no basil, theyre saturated too quick.

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Just did a quick little search and came up with hops, humulus, being in the same family as cannabis. Any thoughts on using it as a test subject? Seems like it could work out nicely since it vines and would be pretty visible to see differences in the growth rates/leaf structures, just no clue on how to determine what would be a comparable plant. Never grown or looked much into growing hops, but my sister brews beer so could give them to her down the road to actually use after I played with them a bit. I'll keep looking around, but would appreciate any suggestions you could think of as well.

As far as white spectrums go, have pretty much something in each of the common kelvin ranges from 2700-5000 that I could set up to try out (one thing thats great about the xlg drivers, wide range of usage). Also have some kind led blurple "pucks" from the free kind led I got on a shipping mishap that I could set up for comparison sake. The blurple was taken apart, so I'd be able to run the pucks much softer instead of the +/-240 watts it was originally wired to with no dimming feature. Just need a little inspiration to get me going on things.

Here's the spectrum for the kind led's I found online, not sure how accurate it actually is, but at least something to go off of.

loco41 said:

any suggestions you could think of as well

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hops would be great. my buddy grows it outside for homebrewing. it grows crazy fast.

this is what i just bought. can't figure out how to post just the diode pics.

remeber it should be the same family, quite nearby,read it 25 years ago, bare with me if thats wrong (better confirm yourself).
i would like to know the ppfd requirements of hops.
very good candidate i say, especially if it have some use afterwards, i guess it can be way better quality then these commercial hops pellets.
it also have a strong terpentene profile.
i remember in school there was some hops growing outside and when the smell creaped in i thought of.... well you guess it ..

edit: its may a good candidate for uv tests in flower too?
complete legal and your sister may brew some award winning stuff with it at least the outcome makes drunk.

rkymtnman said:

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this is what i just bought. can't figure out how to post just the diode pics.

Click to expand...

the return of the blurple , haha.
as long theyre no hundreds of dollars rip offs they can put put photons and in this case some insights of a different spectra..
my problem would be that my power rates are that high, a more efficient light pays back in less then a year for me.

cobshopgrow said:

think HPS offers way less then 6 percent blue, 6% is more like 3000k led wasnt it?

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yes indeed, but judging from all the examples, that 6% one would be the closest

cobshopgrow said:

not even sure if one can give enough blue to counterblanace high amounts of FR

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that or UVA, or both together. What else could suppress it, just look at the suns colour distr. - excessive FR, but also B.

yea, somehow true.
where is shadow there is a high FR amount., clear to measure.
makes absolute sense that the plant take this as the hormone trigger.
maybe its simpler, as long there is direct light elogation is supressed, outside ,inside, everywhere.
R:FR ratio, while i have no overview, maybe pretty much every plant usable color other then FR works for supressing of elogation?

cobshopgrow said:

yea, somehow true.
where is shadow there is a high FR amount., clear to measure.
makes absolute sense that the plant take this as the hormone trigger.
maybe its simpler, as long there is direct light elogation is supressed, outside ,inside, everywhere.
R:FR ratio, while i have no overview, maybe pretty much every plant usable color other then FR works for supressing of elogation?

Click to expand...

Well, green shouldn't suppress but actually induce SAS a bit. *edit: perhaps from a lack of suppression somewhat.... The way it is described is that the strength of the measurement around 660nm counters elongation. But there are various subtypes of Phytochrome R & FR. So not all reactions which are brought in by the addition of excessive FR light can be nullified by 660nm. Because one Pfr is photolabil, the other -stable.

It is my understanding that the blue-light-response reduces internode-length, counters etiolement, entices root growth and opens the cotyledons etc pp. So it's own effect influences the morphology as well, but if it directly opposed the Phytochrome signal-transducting chain, Id venture to say, rather not.
The blue is also associated with less leaf area, as a response to incr. heat stress, so this overall loss of photosynthates is just stiffling the growth promoting abilities of stable Pfr a little.
And we can throw UVA right therein, as the potential stress just increases with a shorter wavelength, and some of the receptors still react to UVC.
The UVR-8 response is always so dramatically show in the diagrams from studies, how much were plants actually exposed to it in Karbon?:

Perhaps UV can help counter FR elongation while at the same time, FR could help in heat stress reduction = best of both worlds?
I found this post by RB very interesting, the attached .pdf as well.

practically i wonder most that FR have such a drastic effect indoor.
the picture showen on the last page does fit well.
my harmless uva trials arent shoing this strong effects.

part of the reason people report success vegging with blurples could be due to their inherently higher hanging heights and less light output, both make it easier to veg.