Plants in my 1st soil recipe are still alive after 5 days.

Discussion in 'Organics' started by Buba Blend, Jul 19, 2017.

    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    Wanted to share my recipe. It cooked for 6 weeks. The smell was awesome. I was going to post my recipe before putting it together but I did not want to be influenced. I wanted to go it alone with what I learned online and live or die with the results. So far so good. I plan on using a variety of pots and do a side by side with my soil and ffof. Water only to the end if possible. I'm probably gonna do a journal.
    Here's the recipe and a few picks from today. Flowering this early was not intentional. They have never seen anything but 12 on / 12 off since birth, long but typical story for the journal.

    I'm a newbie to amending soil. I choose the Bio Live because I don't have access to all the amendments I'd like to have yet.

    About 3 cu ft of used ffof ( 19 gallons ).
    16 quarts of castings
    16 quarts of perlite
    8 quarts vermiculite
    1 1/2 cups Bio Live.
    3/4 bone meal.
    3/4 blood meal.
    3/4 Bat Guano 0-5-0
    3/4 Kelp meal.
    1/4 azomite.
    1 1/2 Dolomite
    1/4 Epsom
    1/2 Humic Acid
    1/4 cottonseed meal 6-1-1

    I'm gonna post this from my computer then post the pics below from my phone.
    too larry likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    In the clay potS. One is in my soil one is in ffof. Not sure which is which. Third pic has more of an Indica presence is in a 3 gallon plastic pot in my amended soil. I wish I had let them get bigger but the smaller plants should be more successful doing a water only run and if it works out with good Crystal I'll veg them longer next time.

    IMG_2147.JPG IMG_2148.JPG IMG_2149.JPG
    iHearAll and swedsteven like this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    My 1st deficiency, now things get a bit more fun.
    4 weeks into flowering. Stretch nearing the end.
    One plant showing a calcium deficiency.
    All plants fed ro water until today.

    I decided to give this plant in a 10" clay pot in ffof approx. 1 tbl gypsum.
    Not sure but I might start feeding some calcium to others. Some I might give some cal/mag+
    They are in a variety of pots, 8", 10" 12" clay and 3 gallon plastic pots.
    All plants are small as described in a previous post.

    Forced to transplant at the start of flowering gave me a very short stint with hermies on 20% of the plants.
    I'm sure the spreading of the roots at that time played a role in the size overall. Hoping it hasn't affected crystal development to much, that would be a sin. Happy with the crystal so far.
    My normal stretch is from 18" to 4 1/2'.
    This time it was more like 10" to 24".
    I have one plant that looks like it is going to be one big cola.

    Here is the calcium deficient leaf and what I used.
    This is different from the look of a calcium deficient leaf from lockout IMO.
    The plant is 22" tall. 2 sets of fan leaves show the early stages of necrotic spots.
    The fan leaves are at the heights of 11" and 14".

    100_5497.JPG 100_5491.JPG
    Richard Drysift

    Richard Drysift Well-Known Member

    I use a similarly naked water source. The solution for me was to use gen organics cal-mag+ at 6-10 drops per gal of water. If you feed as the label says at 1 tsp per gal your plants can get necrotic over a long period of use due to the salts in the cal-mag. Keep the dose under 10 drops per gal or use a TDS to set your dose to around 25 ppms which seems to be the sweet spot. An eye dropper is the best way to do this btw. Another option is to collect rainwater which needs nothing added; contains minerals & microbes.
    DonTesla, newgrow16 and Buba Blend like this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    Thank you Richard! I have read your method in the past and like that style using about 25ppms of go cal/mag+ and plan to use it to some degree next grow. After a few grows of overwatering I wanted to go water only to see how far they would go without showing a deficiency in my soil and in ffof side by side.
    All of the plants in smaller clay pots were given some gypsum raked into the top soil.
    I'm thinking of doing the same to some of the 3 gallon pot plants. At least one 3 gallon will go ro only to the end to see what happens.
    2 plants now show the calcium deficiency both are in 10" clay pots both are in the ffof.
    DonTesla and GimmieThe Loot like this.
    Richard Drysift

    Richard Drysift Well-Known Member

    • It takes quite awhile for dry minerals to become available to the plants. Gypsum won't fix it right away because it has to decompose first which takes longer than you think. You kind of have to add whatever inputs your plants will need in the soil a long time before they are actually needed. If your plants are showing deficiencies it's probably already too late for a top dressing to have a chance of working.
    I add lime, gypsum, composted eggshell (EWC), crushed oyster shell, and chicken manure to my mix almost every time it is recycled. All provide macro nutrients but I still need to give a soluble form of immediately available cal/mag or my plants begin to slide. Doesn't even have to be at each watering either but it is needed occasionally. Cal & mag are needed to help absorb everything else.
    Hydrated lime is another option.
    newgrow16 and Buba Blend like this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    You have me thinking now how I want to handle amendments this grow. I have a variety of seeds going and I'm pretty sure 3 are Sterling Haze that have small buds and are stretching a bit longer than the rest. No deficiencies yet with ro only but I think they are going to be more demanding than the others in a few weeks.
    Some of my plants are short and stocky. This is one of my favorites a Sterling Haze (I think), not for its crystal development, others have much better crystal but because it looks like it might end up with an 18" Cola. @Johnie this is the one I showed you on Johnie's World as a seedling.

    IMG_2056.JPG 100_5527.JPG
    GrnMonStr and Richard Drysift like this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    I am seeing how the gypsum has not slowed the progress of the cal def.
    The 1st to show it in the 8" clay pot has gotten worse quickly (pics below). All plants will get cal/mag+ next watering. No plant in 3 gallon pots have visible deficiencies except for the two smaller sterling haze, they are showing a slight change in their original leaves, fade of N.
    I have blood meal still in the closet and will carefully use some on those two next watering. Got a new resperator.
    The two SH will get some gypsum, blood meal and cal/mag+ next watering. Most other plants will get cal/mag+ and gypsum next watering some will remain ro only. Don't want to torture the ro only plants just want to see the results.
    Here are pics of the plant 1st to show the calcium deficiency a few days ago.
    All plants are small with small 7 leaflet leaves. Works good for a summer grow battling temps. Next grow I'm hoping for 11+ blade fan leaves, these seeds will deliver that if vegged properly. Fun to look at. Already looking forward to next grow, I like vegging big leaves.
    This plant with the cal def had no stretch.
    7-21 it was 10 1/4" Today 8-14-17 13"
    Today is somewhere between week 4 & 5. I look forward to see how it's xtal develops.
    100_5576.JPG 100_5582.JPG 100_5584.JPG 100_5585.JPG
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    I always find the period between week 4-5 difficult to watch. Right after the stretch ends it always looks to me like the crystal development stalls and I get concerned then everything seems better between weeks 6 and 7 when the buds start to swell.
    This was the best crystal picture I could get today, somewhere between week 5 and 6.
    newgrow16 likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    While dialing in my grow after 4 grows of over watering, I'm under watering this grow to some extent on purpose. Pushing the limits without trying to hurt the plants.
    I am also dialing in my 10 year old camera that cost $40.
    It is a Kodak easy share C340.
    Somewhere between weeks 5 and 6.
    Crystals may appear cloudy from the lighting but are actually clear.
    Nu-Be likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    I germinated with paper towels and moved seedling to ff light warrior and left one seedling on top of the soil for about 14 hours. I saw it the next day. It looked OK and I misted it and put it in the soil. It appeared stunted early on and had a lighter color than the rest. It is in a 10" clay pot. All of the plants still in clay pots have issues. I didn't get a good pic, but it's crystal is developing well. (The plant on the left)

    The runt on the right was deformed from birth. I just want to see what kind of buzz it delivers compared to it's sisters. Crystal appears to be developing OK.

    Snipped a tiny bud from the bottom branch on the plant pictured above to do the toaster oven test to see what I thought. Burned white. Didn't make me cough. Unfortunately the most important test, how was the buzz was poorly timed, I was already to stoned to tell :bigjoint:

    I'm at about 6 weeks of flowering.

    I'm already planning my next two grows.
    Next grow will be with seeds similar to this grow if this grow finishes well.
    The grow after that will be with purchased regular seeds from a seed bank, just haven't decided which ones yet,
    Next grow I will supplement cal mag and not mess with the clay pots.
    I will definitely be doing AACT's next grow and making adjustments to my next soil mix.

    swedsteven likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    This one has been watered 3 times since being transplanted to my soil on 7-15-17.
    Transplanted from 6" clay to 3 gallon plastic, one week into flowering.
    1st watering 14 days later on 7-29-17
    2nd watering 12 days later on 8-10-17 (ro only till now, this is the last ro only watering)
    3rd watering 7 days later on 8-17-17 (1st feeding about 2 tbl gypsum and about 100ppm's of cal mag+)
    Today will be the 4th watering. ( Will get about 65ppm's of cal mag + today)
    They have all been on a similar schedule and none have drooped, including the ones in ffof.
    The ffof plants in 3 gallon all show some degree of calcium deficiency. One of the plants in my soil is showing it. It is one of the larger ones, the one I posted a picture of on Aug 13th.
    I am not sure if my calcium deficiency is a result of it not being in the soil or if it is because I have a poorly developed root system that is not cabable of gathering the calcium in the soil. I probably could have resolved that by adding cal mag+ sooner but here we are.
    The plant shown is the one that I described above, it has not been watered yet. Flowering about 6 weeks.
    The bottle of concentrated glass cleaner is a share. One cap full in a windex bottle makes an excellent glass cleaner for the glass covers and for car windows. One bottle goes a long way.
    swedsteven likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    About 6 and a half weeks into flowering. I feel that my plants not being over watered this time are going to finish more than a week sooner than they did on the previous grows. Previously when over watering it took me 11-12 weeks to finish. I feel it could be 10 or less this grow for all but the sativa leaning plants.

    The cal mag + has seemed to stop the progression of calcium deficiencies on the plants that show the deficiency. I was suprised at how fast the calcium deficiency destroyed the fan leaves on the ones that had the deficiency early and were not treated right away with the cal mag+.

    I had to try the gypsum 1st and see for myself. Two grows back, not sure what stage it was, either late in veg or early flower, I applied 2 tbls of gypsum to each 3 gallon pot and IDK if it was that or something else but they went into the most beautiful praying position by the end of the day and looked the same in the morning.

    The blood meal appears to have temporarily stopped the N deficiency that started to develop on a couple of the plants.
    I have some in clay pots that also took on a heavier case of N deficiency. I notice when I use blood meal that I see the 1st signs of N recovery in about a week. The center vein of the center leaflet starts to darken.

    Two in clay pots were far into an N deficiency. They were given the GH trio and are showing a fast recovery. Not sure how I will proceed with those but I feel getting the leaves green 1st was the priority or I was going to lose some of the fan leaves. The yellowing leaves are looking good after one application. They started to green up faster than I expected.

    The top of this cola pictured is different than the rest of my plants. I remember there was one that I banged into the glass cover when I lifted it in early flower, it may have been this one.
    Of the 2 close up pictures below, the 1st is without a flash the second is with a flash.
    swedsteven likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    I ignored the Magnesium deficiency for a while on this one. No other plants show a mg def. This is in the small 8" pot.
    Today I watered this plant and several others in clay pots. I gave them 80 ppm's of cal mag and approx 130 ppm's of epsom salt dissolved in the water.
    The plant pictured also received an epsom salt foliar feeding today of about 110 ppm's. I also added a minute amount of liquid soap to the foliar spray.

    Kjudah420 likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    I started cooking my 2nd batch of amended ffof and will germinate next round of seeds in about 5 weeks. The condition of the used ffof is similar to the soil I started my 1st batch with, depleted that has not been amended before.
    I have several plants in my 1st soil mix that have no deficiencies at 7 1/2 weeks. I'll write out the complete recipe when I start the next grow, here are the changes.
    1st mix aprox 20 gallons to start, this time about 30 Gal.
    No epsom salt added to this mix, last mix had 1/4 cup.
    1 1/2 cups of gypsum added, none was added in previous mix.
    Decreased the blood meal from 3/4 cup to 1/2 cup.
    Increased cotton seed meal from 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup.
    Increased the bone meal from 3/4 cup to 1 cup.
    Increased casting from 4 gal to 6 gal.
    Increased bio live from 1 1/2 cups to 2 cups.
    Increased dolomite from 1 1/2 to 2 cups.

    I'll eventually take pics of the soil and roots from this grow when I harvest the 3 gallon pots.
    If I collect soil 1 or 2 inches from the rim of the pot, there is no resistance from roots pushing through 6" of soil with a spoon.
    The smaller plants are taking on a nice tight bud appearance where the larger plants are healthy but have less density to the buds, they are quite airy. Crystal is OK but I feel overall it is not what I'm used too. Even before when I was overwatering I felt the crystals were much larger.

    The plant pictured shows what is most important to me this grow, healthy leaves.
    I rushed this grow and got into trouble with them vegging and flowering under 11.5/12.5 light because I had to see if I fixed my over watering problem. I had to see what my leaves looked like at week 5 of flower. Would they have necrotic spots like the last 4 grows or would they be healthy.
    The thin trunk reflects many of the trunks I have this grow however the healthy leaves are what matter most.
    This grow I attempted the potting up style of grow.
    Next grow I will go straight from starter pots to 3 gallon pots. I want to make sure to develop good roots next grow doing it the way I am familiar with.

    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    I will be doing a no-till next grow, if that is what it would appropriately be called. In about two weeks, seeds will be germinated and put into started pots, then put directly into the pots I am about to harvest.

    I will also be starting seeds approx Oct. 5th when my cooking soil is ready. This 2nd group of plants will go from starter pots to 3 gallon plastic pots using my amended soil that will have cooked for 6 weeks around Oct 13th.

    To try to balance the two different groups of plants started 2 weeks apart, I'm going to attempt to FIM the ones I put in the no-till. The ones I put in my amended soil 2 weeks later will not be topped.

    Broke out my digital microscope, this one was $40 or $50. Had one before this that took better pictures and had a dimmable LED, this one does not have the dimmable LED. I will be able to compare these crystals to next grow.
    The crystal pictures are from the two plants shown. They were each in 10" clay pots. The small one is the one that was left out of the soil for 14 hours after germination and started out stunted.

    100_5933.JPG 100_5936.JPG S20170907_0003.jpg S20170907_0004.jpg S20170907_0006.jpg S20170907_0007.jpg
    swedsteven likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    In the past when I had hermies I would be careful to get rid of them and not move the plants around and would only have a few seeds that were not a problem. This time I had a short stint of hermies on a few plants when I transplanted 1 week into flowering and did not do a good job of getting rid of them. Big problem was I was weighing pots everyday to experiment with my watering, sometimes moving them past a circulating fan. I now understand the severity of the damage that can be done. One of the sativas is loaded with seeds. That plant will likely be used to make bubble hash.
    I need to correct a statement made in an early post. When I said I could see early signs of recovery when using the blood meal to top dress for an N deficiency, I said "The center vein of the center leaflet starts to darken".
    What I meant to say was the darkening would start on the sides of the vein, not the vein itself.
    I won't be adding anything but RO with about 50 ppm's of cal mag till the end now.
    I'm at 8 1/2 weeks and hope they all finish within 2 1/2 weeks.
    Here is everything used this grow.
    RO water.
    GO Cal/Mag+
    Epsom Salt.
    Blood Meal top dressing to 3 plants in 3 gallon pots and several in clay pots.
    Gypsum top dress to all plants when I ran into the Calcium issue, this time I added gypsum to my soil mix.
    A few of the clay pots received one dose of the GH trio.

    GrnMonStr Well-Known Member

    Nice write up, plants looking great and very healthy. Did you mention what lights you use?

    I have organic soil that's been cooking all summer, and I used similar amendments I missed a few things you have like cottonseed meal but two things I added was green sand and alfalfa meal along with all the other amendments you listed. I can't wait to try it out!
    Buba Blend likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    Hi GrnMonStr!
    I have a 400w 600w 400w in that order in a 5 x 10 grow space using half of a 10 x 10 room.
    I am using Hortilux super HPS bulbs and flower 11.5 on 12.5 off.
    I use a MH in the 600w unit to start seedlings and veg 18/6.
    I have been considered upgrading the 400 to 600 eventually.
    I have a charcoal filter hooked to two units with glass covers and use a 375 CFM inline that suprisingly gets the job done, 750cfm would be a better choice though. I have a small inline fan hooked up to the one glass enclosed 400w unit. I have 3 other fans going, one pushes air out of the room, one shoots air just below the glass hoods and one circulates in the middle to create a light flutter of most leaves.
    I have two circuits fairly balanced for the grow, One has the 600w and 400w plugged in to it. The fans, the one 400w and any other accessories are plugged into the other circuit.
    Summer grows are rough for me. I have trouble with temps averaging 82 and reaching 84 occasionally with light on. Next grow starting in 2 weeks, I will be able to keep flowering temps below 80.
    GrnMonStr likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    Excellent! I'm learning a lot from this recipe. Many of my ingredients in my 1st mix are not reccommended by some of the knowledgable organic growers. So far I have seen Epsom salt, blood meal, bat guano, hydrated lime, azomite and cottonseed meal as something to consider leaving out or to use something else in place. Over time I will try different mixes.

    For now I seem to be OK, I will have a better idea with larger plants and a decent root system next grow. These small plants are less demanding, next grow will be a better test.

    Cottonseed meal may not be a good choice because it is acidic IDK. I have tested the ffof soil and my soil on different occasions throughout this grow with the slurry test using distilled water. Everytime the ffof PH is about 6 and my soils PH is 7. I'm guessing the cottonseed meal is OK as long as my soil PH remains stable. I imagine if I added cottonseed meal to ffof without an additional PH buffer it would really mess up that soil bad.
    Here are two ffof slurry tests on the left and two from my soil on the right taken just now. Slurry tests have been the same for both soils since day 1.

Share This Page