Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

Discussion in 'Organics' started by headtreep, Mar 21, 2013.


    frankslan Well-Known Member

    thinking of doing a no till in a 4 by 4. With maybe two 40 gal totes Sip

    Anyone use sip and no till how did it work out?

    I wont be able to move the tubes out of the 4 by 4 so will I be able to plant in the same soil right after?

    GreenSanta Well-Known Member

    only use straight water in your reservoir, only water from the top at transplant ( when using plastic mulch, I have no experience with SIP/living mulch combo) I am on my 4th 5th and 6th run in 3 SIPs I have. the oldest has been in the grow room for a whole year. I have been pulling the stalks and re-amending, but 90% of the original soil is still there...
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    GroDank101 Well-Known Member

    I have alfalfa meal, kelp meal, organic neem meal, hi cal lime, bokashi bran, azomite, gypsum, Earthworm castings, sphagnum peat moss, pumice and rice hulls, and endo mychorrizae. Should I add fish bone meal or will I be fine without it? I am waiting on an N, P, K soil test that will tell me how hot the soil is.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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    AllDayToker Well-Known Member

    Hey everyone! Long time no see. I have ran into a situation that I am stumped about. On my yield on a recent harvest. I'm hoping someone can clear things up for me because I feel like I'm failing really hard right now haha.

    I ran 3 Kosher Kush plants a couple months back from seed. All three with different phenotypes. They got a short veg time in some soil I mixed up myself. They were in 3 gallon smart pots. They were topped once. I didn't expect much from them with a short veg time but ended up with an average of an ounce per plant. Which I was relatively happy about because I expected much less.

    The last run I did was the same three different phenotypes, all cuts I took from the originals. The differences from this run and the first are as followed; I used a different soil mix (plants looked healthier then previous harvest during veg and flower.) I also placed a scrog screen above the plants and were given longer veg time to help fill the scrog screen. Lastly, they were placed in 10 gallon smart pots instead of the 3's.

    With all of these upgrades I would of imagined a larger jump in a yield then I am currently estimating. I don't have the final dry weight yet but if I compare wet weight and percent return after dry from the previous harvest and this one, I am only seeing an increase of 1 to 1 1/4 ounces per plant.

    Am I missing something or is this a normal increase?

    If you want anymore information let me know!

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    GreenSanta Well-Known Member

    too many variables, I can tell you that if you are trying to do any sort of water only, 3 gallons is def. too small. The next thing is if somehow you did so well in the 3 gals, the yield is mostly dependent on wattage , veg time, genetics ...

    Ive always said the bigger the pots the better the yields and quality, but if you are not doing no till and simply doing mostly recycled organics, for whatever reason, sometimes I get my biggest yields out of 7 gallon pots and I think if I can achieve this in 7 gals, why use 10s!

    Anyway, so many variables... In your context I d say you need to do more runs to find out wtf happened. I am starting to yield more than ever and it has more to do with veg time, training, and luck?
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    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    i'm actually doing a container test right now in my room. i have a 7 gal plastic, a 5 gal plastic, 7 gal fabric, and 10 gal fabric. all 4 the same straight from the same batch of cuts and all went in the same size when transplanted into these containers. I've been posting updates in my thread. so far the 5 gal plastic and the 7 gal fab look the best to me... the 7 gal plastic is doing the worst but i think that's cause i had the blumat dialed in too moist of a setting. the 10 gal fab also looks good, but i don't see much of a difference between the 7 and 10 gal fabs... i guess we'll see when the results come in!

    GreenSanta Well-Known Member

    Interesting experiment, looks like you ll have to start over because you ve already altered the constancy. Personally, I will never use smart pots again. I don't care what the claims are, they are flimsy, they get nasty, increase RH in the room... for me it's plastic until I can built my dream grow room with sub irrigated raised beds. I do like the freedom to move your pots around though, for me I am trying to figure out which is the best in my context, the 7s or the 10s. I like that the 10s give me room for mulching if I have time or mulch to play with, I rarely actually fill the 10s to the top. Anyway, Ive yielded almost 8 oz out of a 7 gallons and ever since Ive been thinking I should really only use 7s. Yet 2/3 of my room have 10s right now haha.

    Mohican Well-Known Member

    I have found that fabric is better in wetter situations and plastic is better in drier conditions.

    NaturalFarmer Well-Known Member


    AllDayToker Well-Known Member

    GreenSanta, thank you for the response. I don't know if you exactly understand what I'm asking. Let me try to put things a little more cut and dry.

    One plant was grown in a 3 gallon pot. Fed occasional teas when needed. Top once, short veg time. My own recycled soil blend that has been re amended multiple times over the past. End yield 1 ounce.

    Next round I grew a cut from the previous plant but this time I increased the pot size to 10 gallons. Again fed occasional teas. Topped more and gave longer veg due to adding a SCROG screen and being in a larger pot. I also switch from my recycled soil blend to a blend from build a soil. Which the plants acted like they enjoyed because they were much healthier and I didn't have to feed as often. End yield estimate is 2 to 2 1/4 ounces.

    All other factors, including amount watered, light used, room temps and humidity, all were the same. Changing factors were amount fed, soil mix, pot size, additional topping and veg, as well as the addition of the scrog screen.

    I've grown for a while, hundreds of plants, many different techniques. I was also taught similar with the bigger, roots bigger fruits, methods.

    I'm not questioning my skills or ability. My knowledge is pretty on point as well. I'm just really stumped that I made 3 separate upgrades that will definitely increase yield but only doubling the yield seems low.

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    yeah seems low to me because if i'm not getting at least 4 oz per plant i'm wondering what went wrong with the grow.... my veg time is around 8-10 wks and generally i put them no taller than 18-24" you should be able to do a lb+ on 600watts of power (im sure strain depending but most strains i'd say this is true.) when i transplant before flower, i always make sure to give at least 2-3 weeks to develop and grow into their new pot. i've noticed much better growth in the first couple weeks of flower when doing so.

    AllDayToker Well-Known Member

    I'm the exact same way. I figured if I would get at least 4 ounces each I would be fine. They say Kosher Kush isn't super high yielder but just the jump in pot sizes should of got me more then what I got, let alone the screen added.

    I'm just really stumped. I don't really know what to change or go from here because I was actually very pleased with this entire run. I thought it was one of my best runs health wise. Then I get this crap lol.

    Think this next run I'll just watch things a little more carefully. Start logging what I do each day and how they look. Back to basics.
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    NaturalFarmer Well-Known Member

    Do you have the makeup of the mix you bought? @AllDayToker
    Any deficiency toward the end?
    AllDayToker likes this.

    genuity ambition

    Sounds like it's just the first run of the soil..

    What did you go with?
    Malibu blend?
    Coots mix?

    Both are on the weak side of things..

    AllDayToker Well-Known Member

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    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    i'll give my .02c. IME, rice hulls really stink for aeration. they're too small and they just saturate too easily in these mixes, so you really only ended up having drainage material ~22% in your mix. this greatly reduces air pockets in the soil.

    secondly... this is just an opinion (as i've built this mix myself rather than bought it)... but that nutrient mix in particular I have found to be shy in K... I think cal phos (0-3-0) and greensand (0-0-7) would do a lot of justice in that mix and really help round out the nutrient ratios. remember NPK #s are based on % weight by volume. So you have kelp ~ 0-0-1 (and kelp is really light in weight so that 1% does not represent very much), crab meal which is ~4-3-0, again no K, and Neem which is ~5-1-2.

    so you have lots of N, medium amount of P, and low amount of K. and your most heavy ingredient by far is the neem, which has more N than the other two combined. it's just out of balance IMO. add the cal phos and greensand and you get a more balanced ratio. also the cal phos would allow you to reduce the amount of gypsum and OSF to 1/2cup per cuft.

    again just my thoughts about that particular mix from growing in my own blend of it and adding a thing or two along the way.

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    i'll start again sometime. for now i'll just ignore the results of the 7 gal and compare the other three. still something to learn from what's been unaffected ;)
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    AllDayToker Well-Known Member

    Alright thanks for the insight. I also top dress with some organic stuff and it's 2-5-3 once they stop stretching and start flowering.

    So how do you think I should reamend this soil? Might as well mix up a more balanced batch of soil while I have the chance.
    calliandra likes this.

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    Good K sources include kmag(sulpomag), wood ashes and molasses. You may have to wait a while for K in greensand to work. Alfalfa meal is 3-1-2.
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    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    yeah but alfalfa also container more N and there's already plenty of N in that mix... plus it's very light in weight so 2% of something light, is hardly anything at all! when you wanna build a lot of something, it takes a lot to assemble it! the greensand, langbeinite would be a more long term effect (gotta watch the langbeinite though)

    ashes would be short term feeding when incorporated into the mix??? probably pretty soluable...?? just guessing.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
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