Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
I dont think I use 7 cups of amendments. Its been a while since I did my last Coots mix. Going to mix another batch tomorrow

I will report back
let me know what you end up using for amendments. I have a bunch of recipes written down in my notebook, but I think a typical cootz mix has 3 cups of amendments and maybe 4 cups of rock dusts. 7 cups of amendments seemed really high to me, especially all the magnesium he used, but you can't argue with his results, it was a beautiful grow. One thing that probably had an impact was that he composted the mix for a full 2 months.
 

bobrown14

Well-Known Member
I do 4 cups of amendments
1 cup kelp meal
1 cup crustacean meal
1 cup Karanja Neem cake
1 cup malted grain (1/4 organic corn, 1/4 organic buckwheat, 1/2 organic barley)

and 4 cups of rock dusts that includes

1 cup Gypsum
1 cup basalt dust
1 cup glacial rock dust
1 cup oystershell flour

Add the above to every cubic foot of soil mix

Peat - Compost - perlite/rice hulls - all 1/3 of total.

so 6 cubic feet of peat - 6 cubic feet compost - 4 cubic feet perlite and 2 cubic feet rice hulls.

Add in biochar/compost mix about 20#s worth might be about 3 gallons to the entire pile.

Maybe sprinkle some extra neem cake on top of the pile to get the microherd fired up.

I have all of this in bulk

I'm making a big batch this time 18-20 cubic feet of mix so I bought the Coots Kit x 2 from BAS this time around just so I can dump and mix no measuring.

I like to have heavy hand with Kelp and malted grains first go around.

I put down a large tarp on the blacktop driveway semi-shaded) then pile of ingredients mix with a ho then cover with another tarp. Let it sit and use in a few days as top dress in our gardens the rest into totes for use in containers no-till.

Be mixing another batch like this in April for prep for outdoor containers.
 

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
I'm going to let mine compost for a month-I'm going to be using some alfalfa meal. I'm definitely using the malted barley from the beginning. Do any of you guys use Bokashi bran? I see some people using it in their recipes.
 

bobrown14

Well-Known Member
I throw some on top of each soil bin (30 gals) when the soil sits idle waiting to go into containers. Once all the mycelium die back its ready. Like 2 weeks. Just cant plant seedlings in that mix.

I use already used soil for seedlings.
 

bobrown14

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah once I do the mix and wait a few days when I put soil into my totes I take some soil samples and mix them and send in a sample to get tested at our county extension service.

I'll have a baseline and will take another soil test next spring.

Send these samples in along with soil sample of our large veggie garden. Do this every spring.

Soil sample test used to be free here in NYS but they now are charging me $13 per test. It's 8 bucks in PA.
 

loco41

Well-Known Member
have you guys seen this guy's grow? https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijuana-growing/indoor-grows-soil/376080-notill-scrog-living-soil-organic
He's basically using a Cootz type mix, but with 6 cups of assorted rock dusts, and 7 cups of amendments. I found it because I've been looking for people who use zeolite in their no till mix. He uses .5 cup per cu ft, which is what I was thinking. He also uses .5 cup langbeinite and .25 cup epsom salt, which seems crazy to me but he got good results. I LOVE when people go off the books and create their own crazy mixes.
I'll have to check out his grow, but that's exactly what draws me to organics. I'll always use coots recipe as a "base" but every time I mix up some soil it's always a little different since I have some other things on hand. I'm curious to see how some of my newly mixed soil does with some outside plants this year. Only alfalfa/kelp/dusts added to the peat, compost and hulls. I think it all really boils down to compost quality used though first and foremost, everything else plays off of that (more so the early stages of the soil mix probably).

I love alfalfa though. I use it in soil mixes, in the worm bins and a nute tea from time to time. I know I've read mixed feelings on alfalfa, but I'm not experienced enough to weigh in on all that. I know the worms like it, the soil microbes get started on it quickly (fast mycellium growth when sprinkled on top) and the plants pray when watered with a simple alfalfa/kelp/neem type tea.

Sorry for the rambling though, just my two cents on some random things..:eyesmoke:
 

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
I'll have to check out his grow, but that's exactly what draws me to organics. I'll always use coots recipe as a "base" but every time I mix up some soil it's always a little different since I have some other things on hand. I'm curious to see how some of my newly mixed soil does with some outside plants this year. Only alfalfa/kelp/dusts added to the peat, compost and hulls. I think it all really boils down to compost quality used though first and foremost, everything else plays off of that (more so the early stages of the soil mix probably).

I love alfalfa though. I use it in soil mixes, in the worm bins and a nute tea from time to time. I know I've read mixed feelings on alfalfa, but I'm not experienced enough to weigh in on all that. I know the worms like it, the soil microbes get started on it quickly (fast mycellium growth when sprinkled on top) and the plants pray when watered with a simple alfalfa/kelp/neem type tea.

Sorry for the rambling though, just my two cents on some random things..:eyesmoke:
I love alfalfa too, it's the main amendment for my outdoor beds. I get bags of alfalfa pellets for horses from the feed store every year and scatter a good layer on top of my outdoor beds after I harvest everything in the fall, then just till them in a little. By spring time they are part of the bed and no longer hot, but the seedlings go nuts every year. I think the main reason they don't use it in Cootz mix is because it's meant to be able to be used right away, wheras alfalfa needs time to compost into the blend. It's awesome stuff though, basically the kelp of the land, it's so nutritious.
 

loco41

Well-Known Member
High N in alfalfa heats up the pile or soil mix. You hafta wait that out. I can use coots mix next day.

Feeding it to the vermi-bin tho, that's the way to do it and use the vermi-compost in your mix, now we got something.
Probably should know the answer to this question by now, but what makes alfalfa "hotter" than something like neem? Does it all have to do with how fast it breaks down? I just read the 2.5-1-2.5 alfalfa as being more balanced than the 6-1-2 of neem ( pulled these out of my ass so sorry if they're off). Just curious on your take before I dive into Google later tonight to get more versed in the technicalities.
 

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Probably should know the answer to this question by now, but what makes alfalfa "hotter" than something like neem? Does it all have to do with how fast it breaks down? I just read the 2.5-1-2.5 alfalfa as being more balanced than the 6-1-2 of neem ( pulled these out of my ass so sorry if they're off). Just curious on your take before I dive into Google later tonight to get more versed in the technicalities.
that's a really good question. I have no idea why alfalfa is a "hotter" amendment than neem despite a lower N rating-hopefully someone here does!
 

bobrown14

Well-Known Member
Green manure I'm thinking. Its fast release and cooks hot. Neen takes much longer to break down fer sure.

If you want your compost pile to heat up without adding manure - add alfalfa meal.
 

bodhipop

Well-Known Member
Tripling up on soil this year for food with coots mix as the base.
Acquiring compost/ewc from multiple sources but I wondered how to incorporate some local clay/loam soil into the mix or if it's even worth it.
It's heavily mulched every year with not much sunlight but it's covered with growth - nettle and all types of little plants. If I added proper aeration then this clay/loam soil could add some bennies to the mix right?
 
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lakesidegrower

Well-Known Member
I'm going to let mine compost for a month-I'm going to be using some alfalfa meal. I'm definitely using the malted barley from the beginning. Do any of you guys use Bokashi bran? I see some people using it in their recipes.
Just mixed up 7cuft soil a few weeks ago, used bokashi bran I made, as well as ground malted barley and malted rye (has slightly higher phosphorus % compared to barley). That’s in addition to about 2 cups amendments per cuft with and overall balanced n-p-k ratio (Gaia all purp, frass, guano, alfalfa, kelp, fish bone, shrimp meal, rock phosphate). 4 cups rock dust per cuft and about 8 cups in total of cal/mg amendments (powdered eggshells, dolomite, gypsum) which is pretty light compared to most mixes. Base is 1:1:1 - peat : compost/ewc : perlite/rice hulls/lava rock.

I went with 3 cups of bokashi bran into 7 cuft, and 1.5c each of the barley and rye. Also added 12c of biochar charged with kelp, alfalfa, ewc and fish emulsion. Hoping for good results lol
 

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Just mixed up 7cuft soil a few weeks ago, used bokashi bran I made, as well as ground malted barley and malted rye (has slightly higher phosphorus % compared to barley). That’s in addition to about 2 cups amendments per cuft with and overall balanced n-p-k ratio (Gaia all purp, frass, guano, alfalfa, kelp, fish bone, shrimp meal, rock phosphate). 4 cups rock dust per cuft and about 8 cups in total of cal/mg amendments (powdered eggshells, dolomite, gypsum) which is pretty light compared to most mixes. Base is 1:1:1 - peat : compost/ewc : perlite/rice hulls/lava rock.

I went with 3 cups of bokashi bran into 7 cuft, and 1.5c each of the barley and rye. Also added 12c of biochar charged with kelp, alfalfa, ewc and fish emulsion. Hoping for good results lol
I think you'll do awesome with that! I'm pretty hyped to try out biochar after reading about that legendary terra preta soil in the amazon that's super fertile after hundreds of years. I'm also going slightly "off book" with amendments-adding some alfalfa, fish bone meal too. Cootz always left out bone meals, but one thing I've learned in my outdoor grows is that fish bone meal especially produces extremely dank buds. Not sure why exactly, it might just be the fish proteins because I get the same effect from fish compost and fish hydrolysate. I see no reason to leave out the phosphorus rich bone meals because the research I've read shows that these organic sources of P don't suppress the microbiome like high P mineral salts do. I've been totally unable to locate either pumic or lava rocks locally and the 5 cubic feet I would need would cost me $200+ from BAS. The really irritating thing is I could buy a pallet of like 57 bags of 3/8" lava rock from a distributor 40 min away from me for...you guessed it, $200.... but I'd need to get someone to deliver it. So I'm just going to use perlite, which I already have, lol. Good luck with your grow, looking forward to seeing all these new projects people have been working on bear fruit!
 

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
I do 4 cups of amendments
1 cup kelp meal
1 cup crustacean meal
1 cup Karanja Neem cake
1 cup malted grain (1/4 organic corn, 1/4 organic buckwheat, 1/2 organic barley)

and 4 cups of rock dusts that includes

1 cup Gypsum
1 cup basalt dust
1 cup glacial rock dust
1 cup oystershell flour

Add the above to every cubic foot of soil mix

Peat - Compost - perlite/rice hulls - all 1/3 of total.

so 6 cubic feet of peat - 6 cubic feet compost - 4 cubic feet perlite and 2 cubic feet rice hulls.

Add in biochar/compost mix about 20#s worth might be about 3 gallons to the entire pile.

Maybe sprinkle some extra neem cake on top of the pile to get the microherd fired up.

I have all of this in bulk

I'm making a big batch this time 18-20 cubic feet of mix so I bought the Coots Kit x 2 from BAS this time around just so I can dump and mix no measuring.

I like to have heavy hand with Kelp and malted grains first go around.

I put down a large tarp on the blacktop driveway semi-shaded) then pile of ingredients mix with a ho then cover with another tarp. Let it sit and use in a few days as top dress in our gardens the rest into totes for use in containers no-till.

Be mixing another batch like this in April for prep for outdoor containers.
What size mix did you order from buildasoil? I havea similar size batch i need to make

Have 7CF rice hulls, 6CF EWC and 6CF SPM

How do you cook your indoor soil? Do you feed any aloe and coconut teas throughout the grow?

I wanna try soil indoors. Been growing hydro for 10 years now and wanna do something different
 

bobrown14

Well-Known Member
I ordered the 3.8cu ft for 110bucks. 3.8 bale of peat fluffs up to 6 cu ft. I used less aeration but it was about 4 cu ft of perlite and rice hulls together. but 6 cu ft of compost and the 6 cu ft of peat and the 4 cu ft of aeration.

I always go a little light on the aeration for some reason. Doesn't seem to make a difference. It might compact more over time but it hasn't turned out that way. I'm starting to not really like perlite anymore. cough cough that shit sucks tbh.
 

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
I ordered the 3.8cu ft for 110bucks. 3.8 bale of peat fluffs up to 6 cu ft. I used less aeration but it was about 4 cu ft of perlite and rice hulls together. but 6 cu ft of compost and the 6 cu ft of peat and the 4 cu ft of aeration.

I always go a little light on the aeration for some reason. Doesn't seem to make a difference. It might compact more over time but it hasn't turned out that way. I'm starting to not really like perlite anymore. cough cough that shit sucks tbh.
You got me on the rice hulls I believe. Not sure if I should get all the ingredients separate or buy a mix. Everyone has coots mix different. I contacted KIS Organics on their mix and it was really off on quantities.
 
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