Setting LEDs at the right height to select phenos "thriving in intense light," killing the weak

Apostatize

Apostatize

Well-Known Member
Until you select phenos, success is largely a #s game. For example, 1/2 my strain purchases didn't stink, but I had enough different stains to find 8 that stink, yield pretty well indoors, high calyx-to-leaf ratio, flower in 7-9 wks, flexible, LST-friendly, 3-month veg, etc.

When it comes to light height, I now believe it's also a crapshoot/#s game until you select phenos. You can either put lights at a "safe distance" and probably get all of your plants to flower and then, select phenos based on performance; or bring them in so close only the strong survive. I now have my lights really close and I want to keep them there, maybe even bring them a hair closer. The strains I've selected seem to be doing well with the close lights. However, if they have any sensitivity to light, the LEDs at ~6-10" away really kick their ass. Two died and I replaced them. If half died, I'd probably move the lights farther away. But it's 2 out of <30 relatively small, LST'd plants. A third plant got thirsty, but I caught it in time. It's coming back. If I lose it, the tents are going to get crowded anyway; I always assume 1-3 won't make it (I'm not that good yet...).

I could play it safe and raise the lights, but "thriving in intense light" may be a valuable category addition to my pheno selection spreadsheet. It hadn't occurred to me before, I'd just like some reassurance that what I'm doing makes sense. This is the first bloom with LEDs this close. Ballasts are separate from light, low heat above plants. Plenty of fans/airflow.

No one has time to screw up an entire harvest -- they look healthy now, but I guess it's possible they could be fried before it's all over. One tent's 2 weeks in, 1 tent's a few days in.
 
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Apostatize

Apostatize

Well-Known Member
4th harvest is coming up in a couple months. just made substantial adjustments. first round with gorilla cookies, will need to pick up the gelato yield.
- Just solved my overcrowding in veg areas by finally setting up a dedicated seedling/clone station.
2-tiers. Two 4' shelves x 2', seedlings behind a tarp to the side of my smaller tent.
Set up an extra veg station in the side of my larger tent and separated it with a tarp, too.
The larger veg station is outside and along the larger tent.
Eventually, I'll get it all in one two-tier structure; seedlings by themselves.
- Now, I'm freer to grow more of each pheno and quickly exclude/double-down on any particular pheno.
- Got major experimentation done within 1st 10 mos. of growing, 2nd year will focus on pheno selection and perfecting balance between light/wind/water throughout flowering, under maximum light intensity.
 
Apostatize

Apostatize

Well-Known Member
Aren't you the Monday troll.... Got some in jars, some's hanging up, stragglers are finishing.

- First harvest was a bust (one tent initially), I didn't have a temp/humidity-controlled dry/cure room then.
- Second, was better; third was even better, I'm definitely getting larger buds, fewer popcorn buds. Taking the time to whittle ~18 strains down to 8 was time-consuming but worth it.
- Fourth is with the lights set low and with additional shelving and raising the floor/well where I put extras (between shelves).

I'd be glad to share pics when I cut the coming harvest. I stagger each tent's harvest time by a few weeks, so I can balance my day job with my hobby -- harvesting it all at once would be too much work, and I'd probably need more space to hang plants.

At this time, I'll freely acknowledge that you're more experienced than I am. I've only been growing for 10 mos, and there are some weeks when I bill 70+ hrs/week at my day job (not in the past few months). On the other hand, I'm not the type of person to brag about being a B+ student (i.e., 90th percentile autopot grower).
 
Apostatize

Apostatize

Well-Known Member
This guy.... While you're at home jerking off to anime, I'm doing real shit (often working 50-70 hrs/wk). I'm new at this, fuck you. But I'm not going to engage further in an argument where the only outcome is who's the bigger dipshit. I concede the victory to you, sir. Peace be with you.
 
bk78

bk78

Well-Known Member
Apostatize said:
This guy.... While you're at home jerking off to anime, I'm doing real shit (often working 50-70 hrs/wk). I'm new at this, fuck you. But I'm not going to engage further in an argument where the only outcome is who's the bigger dipshit. I concede the victory to you, sir. Peace be with you.
Click to expand...
Did you seriously get this offended by me saying about a pound?

Do you drink Starbucks by any chance?
 
Apostatize

Apostatize

Well-Known Member
No, I don't. It was the persistent shittyness, I'm not here for that. I'm just not here for that. A few of you have provided very helpful feedback. I'm just not here for that, and I'll let you know straightaway.

I'm not in a position to offer advice, I'm a novice. Basically, everything I do is an experiment/first time event. I've lowered the lights down by a lot. I think, because the ballasts aren't attached to the light and, consequently, there's less heat, it's ok to put the lights ~6-10" from the top of the canopy. I really don't know. So, yes, that's kind of my question.

- When lights were further away and plants showed signs of dehydration, (1) it wasn't within 90 minutes of the lights going on (assuming I didn't miss the last feed), it was more like 12-24 hrs; and (2) dehydrated plants revived within 45 mins to a day+.

- Now that lights are closer, 2 plants died like they were hit by lightning. No chance of recovery. I replaced them.... Because only 2 died and there are so many thriving, I don't feel like I have to move the lights further away. If that's true, I could use that as a pheno exclusion criteria (they'd die anyway). My concern is that my assumption is wrong and the others could be ticking time-bombs ready to die at any time.

- Part of the problem is that, since I'd just finished a harvest, I still had late-bloom feeding levels in mind and a couple plants really stressed out -- they perished. I replaced them. A third plant also showed stress, it was the only one that showed stress in a separate tent. I caught it a little earlier and 1 branch bounced back ... I'm replacing it. If only the one major limb survives, I'll cut off the dead limbs and drop the live part in the well, between shelves, where I might get a quarter out of it, Idk -- I still replaced it, just not with the same strain. And it will be another harvest or two before my plant #s will be where they should be for each of 8 strains, a couple are in seedling for the first time.

Thanks for any help with this. I'm just here to take notes, get better, pay off student loans, buy a house, and hopefully meet some cool people along the way. That's it.
 
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Romulanman

Romulanman

Well-Known Member
The way YOU look for phenos that suit YOUR needs is irrelevant to US. You like what you like and other people do the same. I mean I second Wattzzup in asking if there was an actual question in there. You want reassurance? Sure. You're doing what every else seems to be doing. All the fluff really is for not until you smoke the shit anyway. Idc if it looks like gold if it wont get me high. That's even worse.
 
Apostatize

Apostatize

Well-Known Member
Ok, I'll keep it simple ... assuming increased light intensity means bigger buds (up to a point), what's the closest you feel comfortable bringing your LED lights to your canopy during any period of bloom? I'm specifically asking about LED lights that do not have a ballast directly connected to them. We all have different goals, but no one seems to be deliberately growing popcorn bud. I'm probably only talking about people who push the limit on distance between light and canopy, not folks playing it safe because perhaps their plants vary in height by several inches or feet (mine have a ~2-6" difference in height). I know that if I keep lights close to the canopy, I'll have to be super diligent about airflow and doses of water a few times/day. I'm not seeing light bleaching/burning, so I think I'm ok. The ones that dried up died so quickly (unlike when they're a little dry with lights further away), it just really got my attention.

There's a chance the distance I have them at now is actually unsafe/bad for the plants, I'd want to find out now before I waste another 2+ months ... my bad, now I'm getting all caps'd to death.... I think I've gleaned enough practical nuggets from this site for a while.... Appreciate ya, it's all just been reassurance that I pretty much get it and will get better over time. Thanks.
 
Apostatize

Apostatize

Well-Known Member
Roy O'Bannon said:
I think you can know for sure with a meter, the plants can only use so much light without supplementing CO2. Idk the numbers because I'm new myself. Maybe say what light your using as well.
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Right, thanks. Initially, I used a light meter ... I tried lights on the top and sides ... I tried a few arrangements that failed. Eventually, I realized it works best in my space to have them above, all at the same height. Didn't go cheap on lights but I did skimp on the meter.

Smaller tent: six 66" Fluence Rays (~ 4" apart)
Larger tent: ten 66" Fluence Rays (~6" apart)

PPF: 160-285 µmol/s
100-125W
66” L x 2.2” W x 1.4” H | 3lb 2oz
167.6cm L x 5.6cm W x 3.6cm H | 1.42kg

I've seen higher PPF on other lights, but those had a ballast directly connected to the light. I'm probably wrong, but I feel like the some of the extra PPF is offset by having lights further away ... I'm closer without the ballast, so I feel like that makes up for the lower PPF. I'm probably wrong.

It makes sense that there'd be some maximum level of light intensity ... just wasn't sure how much of that varies by strain/you just have to figure out what your plants can take.

And what you said about CO2 is timely. Currently, since I've essentially finalized the setup I'll use in this house, I wanted to figure out exactly how much CO2 I've got going around after I recently increased the number of fans in tents. I plan to buy a good CO2 meter. I'm not in a basement, so even with added fans I'll have to add some amount of CO2; and now, I may have even more reason to go ahead with adding CO2. But you're exactly right, I need to find out how much light my plants can take without CO2 and how much CO2 to add to bring the light within range. That's what I'll work on over the next few months.



Thank you very much!
 
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B

budman410

Well-Known Member
I was thinking about making a thread similar to this. My questions was surrounding optimum par in relation to light distance/plant health(bleaching).. I can hang a light 14 inches away using 500 watts to get 8-950 par..or I could drop it down 7 inches and use 375 watts and get that same par range. Is bleaching a intensity issue or par that’s too high etc etc...

Idk what kind of par meter you have or how accurate it is. But shoot for praying and 6-900 par. I’ve gotten foxtailing/bleaching etc from close intense lights trying to make sure my buds are fat. Side lighting should never be a issue. You just need more grow experience and proper watering
 
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