Sinema Leaves Democratic Party

Sinema knows the political climate in Arizona better than all of us keyboard political pundits combined. She has smart experienced operatives that do nothing but study the mood of the electorate. She made a tactical choice to hold her Senate seat. And yes she wants to keep her seat. They all do. Lisa Murkowski did the same thing in Alaska after she was primaried and is still a Senator. Sinema is just getting a jump on being primaried by the far left. She's smart for doing it.

The only reason the Democrats did so well in Arizona was because the GOP ran complete nutcase candidates. Hell, Kari Lake didn't lose by many votes and would be Governor today except for making one mistake. She attacked John McCain voters. That was a stupid strategy that cost her the election. Democrats need to stop being all giddy because the predicted Red Wave didn't happen. It wasn't from anything the Democrats did. It was from the mistakes the Republicans made. They won't make those mistakes in 2024. The Democrats have 23 seats up for reelection in the Senate while the Republicans have half that at 11. You're going to need every seat you can keep and since Sinema is caucusing with the Democrats it would be foolish to try and take that seat from her. You'll just hand it to the Republicans.

Purity tests can cost elections. The hard core GOP base cost the Republicans control of the Senate and any real majority in the House in the midterms. The far left base of the Democrats can have the same effect in 2024. Things might have swung left for now but get greedy and they're swing right. Most Americans are more in the middle. Many independents are not that concerned about the social issues Democrats are focused on. They're tired of hearing about gender identity, marriage equality, they don't think student loans should be forgiven, etc... Get you message more mainstream or you'll lose the voters that matter in close elections.

Sinema understands that so she's positioning herself. She needs a little distance from the far left agenda to win in Arizona. Some of you are content to primary her and put up a candidate that will lose. You should be happy with her 85% voting record. It's likely that Doug Ducey throws his hat in the ring for that Senate seat in 2024. If that happens the only way to keep it from falling into Republican hands is Sinema. The Democrats don't have any potential candidates that could beat him. Sinema is the only chance of keeping that seat with someone that will caucus with the Democrats.

I'm somewhat surprised by the shortsightedness some of you are exhibiting. You hate the Republicans but it's more important that Sinema is labeled a turncoat and ran out of office with the result being a Republican winning that seat. That is completely illogical but then again I am on a cannabis forum so I've learned that logic doesn't matter.

xtsho said:

Some get it. Others prefer to close their eyes and stay in the echo chamber where everyone thinks the same and they all reenforce each others beliefs.

Those of us that live outside the echo chambers see the entire picture.

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Is this you saying I am in a echo chamber? Because I strongly disagree if you are.

xtsho said:

I don't care when, where or who. Right now you have extremes living in an echo chamber. 1975 is irrelevant. I could care less about blaming someone. That solves nothing. I'm not going to live in the past. I'm looking to the future.

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Of course there are 'extremes' living in echo chambers, that is the very nature of the attack on our society. Which propaganda a mark falls for is not a 'both sides' issue, it is weaponizing gullibility in order to radicalize people into either voting for Republicans or 'both's sides'ing' themselves into not voting for the Democrats.

Pretending like that is representative of the Democratic Party like it is the Republican Party is where this 'both sides' narrative falls apart.

The vast majority of Democratic elected officials in power are not radicalized or sold out to foreign interests (through entities like the NRA) like they are in the current Republican Party is. The Democrats don't get all wishy washy when someone in their party turns out to be a asshole. The Democrats are not trying to subvert the will of the people so that they can maintain power. The Democrats are not the ones stuffing radicalized judges into office (even though the Republicans lie and say they are).

xtsho said:

Still stuck on nobody replying to your post #22. Racism definitely exists in the Democratic party. They just keep it behind closed doors. Well at least they try. Unless you don't consider calling a Black Council members child a monkey racist.

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This is actually a perfect example of the difference between the Democratic Party and the Republicans.

They were called out by the Democrats immediately top to bottom. There is too much competition in the Democratic Party to screw around with corrupt assholes like the Republicans tend to do.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/11/los-angeles-city-council-racist-remarks-00061203

xtsho said:

Sinema knows the political climate in Arizona better than all of us keyboard political pundits combined. She has smart experienced operatives that do nothing but study the mood of the electorate. She made a tactical choice to hold her Senate seat. And yes she wants to keep her seat. They all do. Lisa Murkowski did the same thing in Alaska after she was primaried and is still a Senator. Sinema is just getting a jump on being primaried by the far left. She's smart for doing it.

The only reason the Democrats did so well in Arizona was because the GOP ran complete nutcase candidates. Hell, Kari Lake didn't lose by many votes and would be Governor today except for making one mistake. She attacked John McCain voters. That was a stupid strategy that cost her the election. Democrats need to stop being all giddy because the predicted Red Wave didn't happen. It wasn't from anything the Democrats did. It was from the mistakes the Republicans made. They won't make those mistakes in 2024. The Democrats have 23 seats up for reelection in the Senate while the Republicans have half that at 11. You're going to need every seat you can keep and since Sinema is caucusing with the Democrats it would be foolish to try and take that seat from her. You'll just hand it to the Republicans.

Purity tests can cost elections. The hard core GOP base cost the Republicans control of the Senate and any real majority in the House in the midterms. The far left base of the Democrats can have the same effect in 2024. Things might have swung left for now but get greedy and they're swing right. Most Americans are more in the middle. Many independents are not that concerned about the social issues Democrats are focused on. They're tired of hearing about gender identity, marriage equality, they don't think student loans should be forgiven, etc... Get you message more mainstream or you'll lose the voters that matter in close elections.

Sinema understands that so she's positioning herself. She needs a little distance from the far left agenda to win in Arizona. Some of you are content to primary her and put up a candidate that will lose. You should be happy with her 85% voting record. It's likely that Doug Ducey throws his hat in the ring for that Senate seat in 2024. If that happens the only way to keep it from falling into Republican hands is Sinema. The Democrats don't have any potential candidates that could beat him. Sinema is the only chance of keeping that seat with someone that will caucus with the Democrats.

I'm somewhat surprised by the shortsightedness some of you are exhibiting. You hate the Republicans but it's more important that Sinema is labeled a turncoat and ran out of office with the result being a Republican winning that seat. That is completely illogical but then again I am on a cannabis forum so I've learned that logic doesn't matter.

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Im just laughing at you saying that the Republicans are running nutcases.

That is the whole fucking point of why the 'both sides' bullshit fails, the Republicans are running nuts, the Democrats are not, and if they are trying to con their way into elected office, when they get found out, they don't last long at all.

Of course Sinema is doing what she thinks is best for her. But her snow flaking about her reasoning is just bullshit posturing. She has a lot of power, and she wants to keep it.

xtsho said:

There are more people that identify as Independent than either Democrat or Republican. It's been that way for years. And yes people are sick of both sides. The only people that don't understand that are those that are stuck on one side in an echo chamber so they think everyone is the same as they are. Politics have become extreme on both sides.

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I agree politics is extreme, but it's always been that way since it claims the power to do things which would be bad for you or I to do.

Further it shifts the meanings of words to try to make people believe a bad action can be somehow be a good action if it's them doing it and not us.

That is absurd and snake oil logic. Systems reliant on a self evident absurdity and backed up with violence should be put to rest. Time for people to evolve past the party b.s. and see the entire system is a fraud.

xtsho said:

I don't overlook anything. I'm not praising Republicans. I could care less if they're more openly racist. The fact is that racism exists in the Democratic party. You might want to ignore it because as you say Republicans welcome them with open arms. So what. At least they're honest about it. I value honesty. At least you know where they stand.

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So let me understand your position here.
You're an independent swing voter. But you could care less if Republicans are more openly racist and consider that 'honesty'?

So you'll give them your vote if they are supporting something else you want in a particular voting cycle?

I think being openly racist is a hands down disqualifier. Your position seems a little tone deaf.
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you mean here.

tangerinegreen555 said:

So let me understand your position here.
You're an independent swing voter. But you could care less if Republicans are more openly racist and consider that 'honesty'?

So you'll give them your vote if they are supporting something else you want in a particular voting cycle?

I think being openly racist is a hands down disqualifier. Your position seems a little tone deaf.
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you mean here.

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Rob Roy said:

I agree politics is extreme, but it's always been that way since it claims the power to do things which would be bad for you or I to do.

Further it shifts the meanings of words to try to make people believe a bad action can be somehow be a good action if it's them doing it and not us.

That is absurd and snake oil logic. Systems reliant on a self evident absurdity and backed up with violence should be put to rest. Time for people to evolve past the party b.s. and see the entire system is a fraud.

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It's not party b.s. My side is right and the other side is wrong. It's an absolute. There can be no deviation from the groupthink. Doing so makes you the enemy. Then you become one of THEM. Tow the line or get flogged.

I gave up on both parties long ago. I'm not going to settle for a party I disagree with on many things merely because they are Not As Bad as the other. I'll stay independent and vote for people I think are best qualified for the job and more closely align with my views. I don't care if they have a D or R after their name. I vote for candidates from both parties and have for years. I'm not wearing any parties uniform.

tangerinegreen555 said:

So let me understand your position here.
You're an independent swing voter. But you could care less if Republicans are more openly racist and consider that 'honesty'?

So you'll give them your vote if they are supporting something else you want in a particular voting cycle?

I think being openly racist is a hands down disqualifier. Your position seems a little tone deaf.
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you mean here.

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I really don't need you to tell me anything about racism. Or who I should vote for. Being a man of mixed racial heritage with brown skin that grew up in one of the whitest cities in America I know all about racism. This city happens to be one of the most liberal cities in America as well and there is plenty of racism they just hide it better.

Why does it matter if someone is openly racist or hides it in the closet? I don't see the distinction. I'd rather someone is honest about their beliefs instead of putting on a facade for most to see and then sitting around in private dropping the N word and making references to beans and fish heads with their cronies because they're too cowardly to show publicly what they really believe.

xtsho said:

I really don't need you to tell me anything about racism. Or who I should vote for. Being a man of mixed racial heritage with brown skin that grew up in one of the whitest cities in America I know all about racism. This city happens to be one of the most liberal cities in America as well and there is plenty of racism they just hide it better.

Why does it matter if someone is openly racist or hides it in the closet? I don't see the distinction. I'd rather someone is honest about their beliefs instead of putting on a facade for most to see and then sitting around in private dropping the N word and making references to beans and fish heads with their cronies because they're too cowardly to show publicly what they really believe.

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The difference is accountability. That is something that the Democratic Party has that the Repubilcan Party does not.

There is only one party working to legislate for 100% of the population and not just the standard 5-10% that has been done for the rest of American history. There is a reason why the Republican Party rarely calls out it's blatantly hateful members/leaders.

If there is something that you are so in disagreement with that the Democratic Party is pushing, it might just be worth figuring out what it is that they are trying to actually do.

xtsho said:

I really don't need you to tell me anything about racism. Or who I should vote for. Being a man of mixed racial heritage with brown skin that grew up in one of the whitest cities in America I know all about racism. This city happens to be one of the most liberal cities in America as well and there is plenty of racism they just hide it better.

Why does it matter if someone is openly racist or hides it in the closet? I don't see the distinction. I'd rather someone is honest about their beliefs instead of putting on a facade for most to see and then sitting around in private dropping the N word and making references to beans and fish heads with their cronies because they're too cowardly to show publicly what they really believe.

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I simply asked a question. So you wouldn't vote for an openly racist Republican? I don't think you answered that question.

xtsho said:

It's not party b.s. My side is right and the other side is wrong. It's an absolute. There can be no deviation from the groupthink. Doing so makes you the enemy. Then you become one of THEM. Tow the line or get flogged.

I gave up on both parties long ago. I'm not going to settle for a party I disagree with on many things merely because they are Not As Bad as the other. I'll stay independent and vote for people I think are best qualified for the job and more closely align with my views. I don't care if they have a D or R after their name. I vote for candidates from both parties and have for years. I'm not wearing any parties uniform.

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I gave up on politics quite a while ago, it's a violence based cult.

There are some differences in how each party wants to spend the loot and the different ways each party wants to order people around. That's the part that keeps people shouting at each other in a never ending silly fest.

There aren't really any differences in either party about the idea that people should be ordered around and that there should be loot and imposed "leaders". Both parties are in agreement there and that's the part most people won't discuss because critical thinking is in short supply...by design and by systemic means to keep it that way.

To be an Anarchist means you don't believe in forcible hierarchy, to be involved in politics means you do. It's also impossible to be an advocate for peace and not be an Anarchist.

If an everyday person tried to impose a forcible hierarchy on you, you'd probably get out the citric acid spray and aim for their eyes. You should, you'd recognize that as wrong on their part. Nobody has a right to force their ideas on you if you aren't trying to do that to them.

Oddly people don't extrapolate that out to when groups of people, thru the ritual of voting, are, in fact, also imposing a forcible hierarchy on others. One person is bad enough, but when a gang does it, people accept it as "normal".

People also accepted throwing virgins in volcanoes to make the crops grow. So maybe someday things will change and people will stop believing in two opposing things at once on a societal scale. I can hope.

hanimmal said:

The difference is accountability. That is something that the Democratic Party has that the Repubilcan Party does not.

There is only one party working to legislate for 100% of the population and not just the standard 5-10% that has been done for the rest of American history. There is a reason why the Republican Party rarely calls out it's blatantly hateful members/leaders.

If there is something that you are so in disagreement with that the Democratic Party is pushing, it might just be worth figuring out what it is that they are trying to actually do.

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See that's the mindset that I want nothing to do with.

"you are so in disagreement with that the Democratic Party is pushing"

The same With us or against Us, All or Nothing. I know exactly what the Democrats are for and I don't agree with all of it. So does that make me a crazed right wing lunatic? No it doesn't but that's the way you're treated by many on the left. It's no different than the right villainizing Republicans because they are not pro-trump.

I don't choose either party. There is no middle ground with either these days. Extremism is bipartisan. But neither side thinks they're extreme. Those of us outside the bubbles think both sides are extreme. There is plenty of polling that shows that's how most independent voters feel. I'm not alone. My political views may be in the minority on this site but I can go over to a predominately Republican forum and hear the same type of stuff I do here only it's Republicans coming after me because I'm not 100% in line with what they're pushing.

xtsho said:

See that's the mindset that I want nothing to do with.

"you are so in disagreement with that the Democratic Party is pushing"

The same With us or against Us, All or Nothing. I know exactly what the Democrats are for and I don't agree with all of it. So does that make me a crazed right wing lunatic? No it doesn't but that's the way you're treated by many on the left. It's no different than the right villainizing Republicans because they are not pro-trump.

I don't choose either party. There is no middle ground with either these days. Extremism is bipartisan. But neither side thinks they're extreme. Those of us outside the bubbles think both sides are extreme. There is plenty of polling that shows that's how most independent voters feel. I'm not alone. My political views may be in the minority on this site but I can go over to a predominately Republican forum and hear the same type of stuff I do here only it's Republicans coming after me because I'm not 100% in line with what they're pushing.

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Well then I wouldn't cherry pick what I wrote to suit your 'both sides' nonsense.

You have a lot of generalities, but I have yet to see a actual thing that the Democratic Party are pushing that you don't agree with, which is why it is a good reason to actually look into it.

Pretending like I am saying it is all or nothing is just bullshit trolling.

hanimmal said:

There is only one party working to legislate for 100% of the population

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Patently false. If even one person prefers not "be legislated" over a euphemism for ruled, then your claim of 100% is false.

I know it's more than just one person, but for the veracity of my claim, I will be that ONE person.

Fact checked = Wrong.

Rob Roy said:

Patently false. If even one person prefers not "be legislated" over a euphemism for ruled, then your claim of 100% is false.

I know it's more than just one person, but for the veracity of my claim, I will be that ONE person.

Fact checked = Wrong.

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And they are still looking out for you too. We need to care for our mentally unstable as well.

hanimmal said:

And they are still looking out for you too. We need to care for our mentally unstable as well.

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I hate to be so perisistently right, but they couldn't possibly be looking out for me, if they are trying to forcibly impose their will on me even though I'm a peaceful critter.

I agree, we should care for the mentally unstable, and I have quite a caseload here. Dozens of you.
It'a lot of work and the pay ain't very good either.

the entire febrile manifesto is brought into focus when one notes that a Chris Kohls vid is being presented as, like, meaningful or something.

Rob Roy said:

I hate to be so perisistently right, but they couldn't possibly be looking out for me, if they are trying to forcibly impose their will on me even though I'm a peaceful critter.

I agree, we should care for the mentally unstable, and I have quite a caseload here. Dozens of you.
It'a lot of work and the pay ain't very good either.

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It must be interesting to live in your delusion man.

ahem

hanimmal said:

Well then I wouldn't cherry pick what I wrote to suit your 'both sides' nonsense.

You have a lot of generalities, but I have yet to see a actual thing that the Democratic Party are pushing that you don't agree with, which is why it is a good reason to actually look into it.

Pretending like I am saying it is all or nothing is just bullshit trolling.

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Does it matter what I don't agree with? I don't see how it does.

“I’ve never fit neatly into any party box. I’ve never really tried. I don’t want to.”
Kyrsten Sinema

xtsho said:

It's not party b.s. My side is right and the other side is wrong. It's an absolute. There can be no deviation from the groupthink. Doing so makes you the enemy. Then you become one of THEM. Tow the line or get flogged.

I gave up on both parties long ago. I'm not going to settle for a party I disagree with on many things merely because they are Not As Bad as the other. I'll stay independent and vote for people I think are best qualified for the job and more closely align with my views. I don't care if they have a D or R after their name. I vote for candidates from both parties and have for years. I'm not wearing any parties uniform.

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I'll agree with you when you say Sinema is not Republican or Democrat. I just don't know why you consider that a qualification. Or maybe you don't.
It's hard to say what you stand for when you speak in sweeping generalizations without giving specifics.

BTW, you talk as if Oregon's Democrats lost the election in November. Democrats practically swept the board. Maybe you should reconsider your argument that Oregon's Democrats are too extreme and therefore doomed to failure.