Smaller than normal trichomes and no smell on my landrace

avillax

Well-Known Member
Hello, I have just harvested my landrace Mexican sativas that took about 8 months from seed to finish. It was so hard to know when they were ready as they didn't produce any smell, nugs were skinny etc. Under the magnifying lenses I can see tiny trichomes, smaller than average weed, and no smell. Hairs were also smaller and less of them. Also trichome concentration is low. I'm wondering if all of these are characteristics of landraces?

Drying the buds now. What can one expect?
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
Evil,
First, be really careful not to over dry the buds. I had some airy sat buds do that and I was stuck with harsh smoke. I harvested some Golden Tiger earlier this year...and with a scrubber...they didn't smell unless I rubbed the stem or somethng.

Hope it turns out good after all that time growing...
JD
 

avillax

Well-Known Member
Evil,
First, be really careful not to over dry the buds. I had some airy sat buds do that and I was stuck with harsh smoke. I harvested some Golden Tiger earlier this year...and with a scrubber...they didn't smell unless I rubbed the stem or somethng.

Hope it turns out good after all that time growing...
JD
Thank you, also very small trichomes? even if it was harsh, how were the rest of the effects?
 

avillax

Well-Known Member
I'm betting you harvested too early
I have run some sativa's 22 weeks in 12/12 and still doubted they were finished
That was my thought initially, I wanted to wait for the buds to fatten and the trichs to increase, so I was thinking it was going to be ready beginning in December. But the buds are not growing anymore, nor trich concentration is increasing, the trichs do show amber and milk colors. It started flowering 4 months ago! Also, I decided to cut because lots of leafs were yellowing and dying. This no longer seemed to be nutriend defiency related but rather coming to the end of their lifecycle. I was afraid if I didn't cut it now all my trich covered leafs were going to yellow.
 
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JohnDee

Well-Known Member
Thank you, also very small trichomes? even if it was harsh, how were the rest of the effects?
It actually had not too many trichomes. Certainly not like some of the bud shots you see. But once I cooked up some edibles...it's a damn strong sativa. As others have implied with yours...I may have chopped too soon. I chopped at 11 weeks...but it was a Malawi pheno that finishes fairly early..
JD
 

avillax

Well-Known Member
The good news is that I just cut half of it and left the other half. It is my first landrace that I grow and it seems they don't take nutes so well, probably because they're slow. Anyways, I don't use ph meters or anything and so waterings seem to be hurting them, that's the struggle I'm having, so I can only wait and see if the second half becomes and improvement, perhaps I'm going to leave it for 3 more weeks.
 

Father Ramirez

Well-Known Member
This post underscores what we know, and what we still don’t yet know about cannabis!!
Traditional sativa buds will often be fingerling and appear less trichome-y than what you see in bud porn. But somehow it delivers the goods!
Add to that, it can often contain seeds and still be killer weed! WHAAAAATT?!!
Seeded weed can be damn good. It’s a pain to clean seeds but the high can be sublime and layered.
Put aside what you know about modern weed... you have old school. Congratulations
 

avillax

Well-Known Member
This post underscores what we know, and what we still don’t yet know about cannabis!!
Traditional sativa buds will often be fingerling and appear less trichome-y than what you see in bud porn. But somehow it delivers the goods!
Add to that, it can often contain seeds and still be killer weed! WHAAAAATT?!!
Seeded weed can be damn good. It’s a pain to clean seeds but the high can be sublime and layered.
Put aside what you know about modern weed... you have old school. Congratulations
Nice, this is what I wanted to hear. I had never grown landrace sativas, so I didn't know but suspected this. Thanks
 

Father Ramirez

Well-Known Member
You’re very welcome.
Upon re reading my post I see I must have been high. How did that happen?! I didn’t address your recent comment about nute uptake and pH.
Pure sativas are the quirky supermodels of the cannabis world. Skinny and gorgeous and temperamental! Picky eaters.
I have grown pure sat outdoors in years past. Ten feet tall Christmas trees that delivered only a few ounces each. But sweet and wonderful stone. Colombian.
I had a Train Wreck in 2013 that was mostly sat but probably not pure. She lived nearly 12 full months under LED, flowering for 10. Hard to believe but I have no reason to make it up. All that time, all that electricity- two ounces. Worth it!! A nearly psychedelic high.

pH is too important to ignore. No need to be manic about a specific number every feeding. Just get it within range. Very important!
Enjoy your harvest
 

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
Sativa trichs are generally smaller in size than Indica or Hybrid. 16wk flower period should typically be long enough. Most Sativa/Sativa dominant are around 11 - 16wk flower periods. If it's cold it will take longer. If the plant had issues during the grow then that will effect yield and bloom time.

Keep RH ~45%+ during bloom. I'm not certain, but I believe having lights too close can evaporate terps off. They protect the plant and I've had similar smell-less results before, and that was my conclusion, lights too close, and low RH.

The faster the dry the harsher the smoke, so shoot for 65% RH & 65F when you're drying, I normally can only get around ~55% RH & 68F, so it takes mine about 5 days hanging in those conditions to finally be able to jar up. The faster the dry the harsher the smoke. You can NOT rehydrate. Once it has dried you can't go back. You can add some moisture back but it's not going to cure again, it will just add tasteless weight. Break down the plant into branches for hanging, the bigger the branch the longer it takes to distribute the moisture, and the smaller the branch the faster, I found breaking down into the plants' individual branches was the optimal size for the rate of moisture loss I was looking for. The bigger the branch the bigger the cola, the proportionality seemed to maintain regardless the branch observed and why I think quantifying in branches provides consistent results. Some branches will look like a Jewish Menorah, I will break these branches down into individual branches, trying to create pieces of equal size throughout the entire plant.

After 4-6 days I snap the buds off the branch and jar (what it takes me). I use the "snap test" to get me in the moisture ball park before they are jarred. This means if the buds don't "snap off", rather bend, or bend/snap + a wet fibrous hang nail, then they need to hang longer, as long as needed till the buds can snap off. I hang them off of clothes hangers. If you snap at the node you'll almost always a get long stringy hang nail, so I try for a bit above, at least.

If effort is taken to slowly reduce moisture from the plant, then you'll have good smelling, less harsh herb. The longer you jar the lesser the "harsh" and the better the taste, also potency can increase the high and can sort of "mature" it as well, imo. I've had to find this out the long and hard way, with many crops and tons of crap harsh herb that smelled like hay. Genetics obviously plays a roll, but these techniques seemed to optimize whatever genetics I had.

I do a 7 day flush. I noticed on my outdoor crops where I planted straight into the ground that they always seemed harsher. I wasn't able to control for N near end of the bloom like an indoor hydro grow, and I noticed that the chorophyll content was always much greater in my outdoor grows than indoor grows. I think that this has a great deal to do with the "harshness" of the smoke and the "hay" or odorless smell.
 

avillax

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I grew outdoors in my balcony, more than 20 buds from both plants, though airy. I could have gotten way more weed but kept them in yogurt bottles to limit their growth and cut 1/3 of the upper stem and threw it away, I was afraid of things going out of control but since there was no odor at all, I should have just grown the whole balcony with them, they're next to a bamboo and blend just fine, and when my parents came to visit (it is their apartment, they had no idea what weed looks like so they never guessed)

I just cut the second half of the plant today because leafs keep on dying and at this rate there won't be nothing left, anyways, I didn't see amber on this lower half but all the trichs are milky, so good enough I guess.
 

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Father Ramirez

Well-Known Member
Sativa trichs are generally smaller in size than Indica or Hybrid. 16wk flower period should typically be long enough. Most Sativa/Sativa dominant are around 11 - 16wk flower periods. If it's cold it will take longer. If the plant had issues during the grow then that will effect yield and bloom time.

Keep RH ~45%+ during bloom. I'm not certain, but I believe having lights too close can evaporate terps off. They protect the plant and I've had similar smell-less results before, and that was my conclusion, lights too close, and low RH.

The faster the dry the harsher the smoke, so shoot for 65% RH & 65F when you're drying, I normally can only get around ~55% RH & 68F, so it takes mine about 5 days hanging in those conditions to finally be able to jar up. The faster the dry the harsher the smoke. You can NOT rehydrate. Once it has dried you can't go back. You can add some moisture back but it's not going to cure again, it will just add tasteless weight. Break down the plant into branches for hanging, the bigger the branch the longer it takes to distribute the moisture, and the smaller the branch the faster, I found breaking down into the plants' individual branches was the optimal size for the rate of moisture loss I was looking for. The bigger the branch the bigger the cola, the proportionality seemed to maintain regardless the branch observed and why I think quantifying in branches provides consistent results. Some branches will look like a Jewish Menorah, I will break these branches down into individual branches, trying to create pieces of equal size throughout the entire plant.

After 4-6 days I snap the buds off the branch and jar (what it takes me). I use the "snap test" to get me in the moisture ball park before they are jarred. This means if the buds don't "snap off", rather bend, or bend/snap + a wet fibrous hang nail, then they need to hang longer, as long as needed till the buds can snap off. I hang them off of clothes hangers. If you snap at the node you'll almost always a get long stringy hang nail, so I try for a bit above, at least.

If effort is taken to slowly reduce moisture from the plant, then you'll have good smelling, less harsh herb. The longer you jar the lesser the "harsh" and the better the taste, also potency can increase the high and can sort of "mature" it as well, imo. I've had to find this out the long and hard way, with many crops and tons of crap harsh herb that smelled like hay. Genetics obviously plays a roll, but these techniques seemed to optimize whatever genetics I had.

I do a 7 day flush. I noticed on my outdoor crops where I planted straight into the ground that they always seemed harsher. I wasn't able to control for N near end of the bloom like an indoor hydro grow, and I noticed that the chorophyll content was always much greater in my outdoor grows than indoor grows. I think that this has a great deal to do with the "harshness" of the smoke and the "hay" or odorless smell.
Thank you @ChiefRunningPhist for taking the time to write that thorough instructional. Hey @rollitup maybe a sticky?
 

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I grew outdoors in my balcony, more than 20 buds from both plants, though airy. I could have gotten way more weed but kept them in yogurt bottles to limit their growth and cut 1/3 of the upper stem and threw it away, I was afraid of things going out of control but since there was no odor at all, I should have just grown the whole balcony with them, they're next to a bamboo and blend just fine, and when my parents came to visit (it is their apartment, they had no idea what weed looks like so they never guessed)

I just cut the second half of the plant today because leafs keep on dying and at this rate there won't be nothing left, anyways, I didn't see amber on this lower half but all the trichs are milky, so good enough I guess.
Hmmm, how much light were they getting? Are there any balcony lights that come on during the night or would end up extending the duration of light exposure past 12hrs, or reducing the duration of the dark period? When did you top the upper 1/3 off?

It looks like possibly they didn't have enough light, or perhaps they didn't have a long enough dark period, or maybe a combo of the 2? Maybe they didn't have a big enough pot size and were getting root bound, or perhaps your grow medium suffered from lack of O2. Chopping a large portion of the plant could stress it and stunt it, and possibly turn it hermie.

The plant did not finish flowering (or did not flower properly), but after 4 months of bloom you should have been further along then that. The buds are airy and the calyxes are very sparse. I think the container size, grow medium aireration, light intensity (bamboo shading, or other vegetation competing for light and shading the MJ?), and dark period duration are the main factors in the results you're getting.

Pure sativa will have skinnier buds and less yield per m2 than Indica, but optimal Sativa buds will be more dense than what you're getting. I've grown similar stuff, we all started somewhere, but if you keep at it your results will only improve. :bigjoint:

I'd poke some drainage holes in the yogurt cups (if you haven't already) and put some sort of saucer or lid under the yogurt cup to contain the draining water. Id veg till I saw at least 3/4 sets of leaves (~2wks), then flip to bloom. I'd grow them with SOG (sea of green) in mind, where each cup grows a main cola. If you used a bigger pot then I'd veg longer. I'd also try to make sure when its time for lights off that they are getting a full 12hrs per day of total darkness. If you're using some sort if EOD FR trigger then you'll want at least 10hrs of total darkness. Good luck!
 

Father Ramirez

Well-Known Member
... make sure when its time for lights off that they are getting a full 12hrs per day of total darkness...
Roger that

I just checked today’s sunrise and sunset in San Juan on the 18th parallel where I grew Sativa, and they’re seeing 11.25 hours light today.
And I’ve noticed quite a few Hawaiian indoor growers set their timers 11/13, I suppose to simulate natural hours. In summer that would be reversed in nature, but to be certain when growing sativa indoors, we know 11/13 ensures a proper dark period. I’ve since adopted the method even with hybrids
 

avillax

Well-Known Member
Yes, perhaps growing in my balcony is not optimal, don't know, I need to try autos. This was my second harvest here and first landrace. Last time, I grew First Lady by Delicatessen seeds. It's a feminized sativa. I started it in January, so due to the reduced sunlight hours, it grew only 12 inches and yielded about 4 grams dry. In the scale of airy to fat buds I think it was about 65% of its potential, it received very little direct sunlight during flowering because the sun's angle shifted and I was getting just 1-2 hours of direct sunlight starting in March.. It did have lots of big trichomes and the smoke was quite good.

Other factors affecting is that the heat is very intense from June-October. The best months in my balcony in terms of amount of direct sunlight are August-February. Sun can be very intense, this is beach sun from Mexico.
I'm growing an auto black mamba which is an Indica that came as a gift, and it started flowering at 3", I think it will grow 4 maximum, so it will yield very little, it is a dwarf. I think I messed up because I didn't provide nutrients in the first 2 weeks and grew in coco, that plus it is an Indica growing in hot conditions in the summer it probably shocked her, other than that it is growing healthy in its current flowering 3". Yep, that's my story, guess I should stick with autos.
 

KCMeds

Member
Hoping to resurrect an old thread. Columbian D by Pisces flowering 77 days under hlg550. I harvest the freak of the group two weeks ago and smoke was best I've grown. Although sativas tend to do that for me due to how much hybrid indica gets rolled up. The trichomes are microscopic. Nearly impossible to see through the absurd amount of hairs! For a brief moment, I can enter the trichome dimension using like 10-15x macro lens off a camera. They are at the recommended ripeness but so incredible small from the indicas ive grown. The mother is i95 and looks like bamboo like avillax. My mom thought my mother was a maple bonsai haha
 

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Kindbuds303

Well-Known Member
I’m that plant wasn’t anywhere near being done by what I’m seeing several weeks more if that was under an hlg550 should of had nice colas hella frost some not right
 

KCMeds

Member
That was just a tester nug I took from mid/lower plant. The trichomes are milky with some ambering and look done to me. I'll let it go a bit longer but I'm itching to get some others in it's place. Tempted to let it finish outdoors. Missouri sun is no joke and crushing autos.
 
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