Sulfur toxicity and lack of P

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stoobeey

Well-Known Member
My soil test results show me having well over 200ppm more than suggested for hemp .

Somehow I didn't charge enough P into last recycle either.

Looking for solutions as the clones I got basically aren't growing at all and I've had them for like 2mo now. Kind of crazy as I was expecting to be flipping 3 to 4 by now. One has branches that are brittle. I took 2 of them for cloning as I don't see this plant surviving. Never ran into an issue like this before where everyone just stopped growing.

I flushed the plants some last night and will too dress bird guano for P with some ewc and buus compost.

Also planning to make a tea with the guano as well.
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
stoobeey said:
My soil test results show me having well over 200ppm more than suggested for hemp .

Somehow I didn't charge enough P into last recycle either.

Looking for solutions as the clones I got basically aren't growing at all and I've had them for like 2mo now. Kind of crazy as I was expecting to be flipping 3 to 4 by now. One has branches that are brittle. I took 2 of them for cloning as I don't see this plant surviving. Never ran into an issue like this before where everyone just stopped growing.

I flushed the plants some last night and will too dress bird guano for P with some ewc and buus compost.

Also planning to make a tea with the guano as well.
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You're probably going to burn them with the guano teas. What are you feeding them? EWC and compost is not enough.
 
S

stoobeey

Well-Known Member
Wastei said:
You're probably going to burn them with the guano teas. What are you feeding them? EWC and compost is not enough.
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Soil is the usual sphag , ewc, compost, perlite.
Kelp meal
Crab meal
Fish bone meal
Alfalfa meal
Neem cake meal
Greensand
Gypsum
Dolo lime
Azomite
Bokashi grain

The seabird 0-11-0 is to add only P back into my pots . my N and K are almost a bit much but just barely.
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
stoobeey said:
Soil is the usual sphag , ewc, compost, perlite.
Kelp meal
Crab meal
Fish bone meal
Alfalfa meal
Neem cake meal
Greensand
Gypsum
Dolo lime
Azomite
Bokashi grain

The seabird 0-11-0 is to add only P back into my pots . my N and K are almost a bit much but just barely.
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Why choose dolomite lime instead of gypsum? You're going to have a hard time trying to combat the insane amount of Mg in the dolomite lime. Dolomite limes Ca:Mg is negative and should not really be used for growing Cannabis IMO.

You should have enough P in that mix. Main problem is your Ca:Mg ratio is way off!
mulders-chart.jpg
 
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S

stoobeey

Well-Known Member
Wastei said:
Why choose dolomite lime instead of gypsum? You're going to have a hard time trying to combat the insane amount of Mg in the dolomite lime. Dolomite limes Ca:Mg is negative and should not really be used for growing Cannabis IMO.

You should have enough P in that mix. Main problem is your Ca:Mg ratio is way off!
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Screenshot_20230427_092110_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20230427_092123_Chrome.jpg
I know I should have enough P but this analysis says otherwise lol. I have test submitted for my other 2 bins of soil that are next in line too so I can make sure I don't up pot into bad shit (I have a bunch of plants from seed getting close to first up pot from solos. They're just in a mix of buus compost perlite and ewc. Was too scared to use my soil)
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
stoobeey said:
View attachment 5285745View attachment 5285746
I know I should have enough P but this analysis says otherwise lol. I have test submitted for my other 2 bins of soil that are next in line too so I can make sure I don't up pot into bad shit (I have a bunch of plants from seed getting close to first up pot from solos. They're just in a mix of buus compost perlite and ewc. Was too scared to use my soil)
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How long did you cook that soil before use?
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
stoobeey said:
4 to 6 weeks before anything was planted in it
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Maybe the temps were a little low? Did it get warm in the middle when you mixed it around? You should have plenty of P in the fish bone meal

Maybe you should take a look at the SIP section(sub irrigated planter) if you're in to organics? It's makes the watering part easier with organics I think and people have great results!
 
S

stoobeey

Well-Known Member
Wastei said:
Maybe the temps were a little low? Did it get warm in the middle when you mixed it around? You should have plenty of P in the fish bone meal

Maybe you should take a look at the SIP section(sub irrigated planter) if you're in to organics? It's makes the watering part easier with organics I think and people have great results!
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That is possible on temps being too low to efficiently cook in that time span. As for sip I'm fairly happy with my blumat set up . Trust me the lack of P to me is odd as hell . I've been cycling this soil for 2 years and recharging . Never had that happen (though this is first time I've tested soil).

The seedlings I'll be going to buy some buus soil mix (I like their compost a lot) for up planting till I get all the soil mixes under control
 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
Wastei said:
Why choose dolomite lime instead of gypsum? You're going to have a hard time trying to combat the insane amount of Mg in the dolomite lime. Dolomite limes Ca:Mg is negative and should not really be used for growing Cannabis IMO.

You should have enough P in that mix. Main problem is your Ca:Mg ratio is way off!
View attachment 5285752
Click to expand...
Could you expand a little on how dol lime is negatively charged? I thought 2:1 ca Mag was a good enough ratio?
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
Nutty sKunK said:
Could you expand a little on how dol lime is negatively charged? I thought 2:1 ca Mag was a good enough ratio?
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I haven't had good results using dolomite lime growing Cannabis. Someone probably got it to work but it's still way inferior to gypsum 4:1 Ca:Mg ratio.

The problem is when you use it as top dressing where the Mg could be released before the Ca. In well cooked soils it's fine.
 
weedstoner420

weedstoner420

Well-Known Member
They look a bit waterlogged to me... I'd second the suggestion to look into SIPs for organics, especially since I see you're already using blumats.: https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/
There are lots of diy ones in that thread, but there are also commercially available ones like the Earthbox and Growbox that work great and are not too expensive.

And fwiw, I think it's rare for plants to actually develop sulfur toxicity, but sulfur does lower the pH in organic soil (it's what's in those "soil acidifier" products for blueberries and hydrangeas), so you can have issues because of the soil being too acidic from excess sulfur...
 
S

stoobeey

Well-Known Member
weedstoner420 said:
They look a bit waterlogged to me... I'd second the suggestion to look into SIPs for organics, especially since I see you're already using blumats.: https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/
There are lots of diy ones in that thread, but there are also commercially available ones like the Earthbox and Growbox that work great and are not too expensive.

And fwiw, I think it's rare for plants to actually develop sulfur toxicity, but sulfur does lower the pH in organic soil (it's what's in those "soil acidifier" products for blueberries and hydrangeas), so you can have issues because of the soil being too acidic from excess sulfur...
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Thanks . Oh they're wet from a "flush". I repalanted the 4" pot ones (one didn't need it and could be up potted next week). I grabbed baby bus potting soil and added a bunch of perlite. The 3 in the 7s one I may kill off . The other w today looked like they're throwing out new growth finally. I have some tm7 coming and I'll water it in over some seabird guano . So that should help replenish missing micronutes and my sheer lack of P.

I keep my blumats dialled back more than they suggest . I prefer my pots to feel light almost always since they have access to water whenever
 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
Wastei said:
I haven't had good results using dolomite lime growing Cannabis. Someone probably got it to work but it's still way inferior to gypsum 4:1 Ca:Mg ratio.

The problem is when you use it as top dressing where the Mg could be released before the Ca. In well cooked soils it's fine.
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Yeah i think you’re on to something about cooking it out. My first attempt I didn’t cook and got whacky plants in early veg.

Think it needs a good month or so before planting in
 
JeffWix

JeffWix

Well-Known Member
Wastei said:
Why choose dolomite lime instead of gypsum? You're going to have a hard time trying to combat the insane amount of Mg in the dolomite lime. Dolomite limes Ca:Mg is negative and should not really be used for growing Cannabis IMO.

You should have enough P in that mix. Main problem is your Ca:Mg ratio is way off!
View attachment 5285752
Click to expand...
This is the answer right here...your cal mag is off thus locking out the uptake of P....


I have had this problem before when I 2as working out my soil mix...definately use gypsum not dolemite...as @Wastei said...even adding cal mag now you can't get ahead of the dolomite lime...foliar spray with cal mag would quickly show you
 
jimihendrix1

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
Promix BX uses both Dolomitic Lime, and Calcitic Lime at a ratio of 2/3 parts Calcitic Lime to 1/3 Parts Dolomite. In more clay type soils Dolomite can turn your soil to concrete. Ive never had a problem using Dolomite, but Ive always used it in the ratio Promix BX uses.
Promix BX buffers out to 6.2PH after several waterings.

But I know for most indoor organic soil mixes, most use Gypsum. Calcitic is also best for quick PH change vs Dolomite.

I do mainly use chemicals, but when I did organic I used Peruvian Seabird Guano. 12-11-2, Kelp, Azomite, Potassium Sulfate/0-0-52.

I used the guano at a rate of 3 TBLSP per gallon of soil, and then make a weak tea with 2 TBLSP per gallon of water Guano, and 1 TBLSP Kelp, and water with this 1 time per month. I also mix the guano, and kelp for at least 40 minutes before application.
 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
jimihendrix1 said:
Promix BX uses both Dolomitic Lime, and Calcitic Lime at a ratio of 2/3 parts Calcitic Lime to 1/3 Parts Dolomite. In more clay type soils Dolomite can turn your soil to concrete. Ive never had a problem using Dolomite, but Ive always used it in the ratio Promix BX uses.
Promix BX buffers out to 6.2PH after several waterings.

But I know for most indoor organic soil mixes, most use Gypsum. Calcitic is also best for quick PH change vs Dolomite.

I do mainly use chemicals, but when I did organic I used Peruvian Seabird Guano. 12-11-2, Kelp, Azomite, Potassium Sulfate/0-0-52.

I used the guano at a rate of 3 TBLSP per gallon of soil, and then make a weak tea with 2 TBLSP per gallon of water Guano, and 1 TBLSP Kelp, and water with this 1 time per month. I also mix the guano, and kelp for at least 40 minutes before application.
Click to expand...
Just been reading up on that here. I’ve been using just Dolomite lime and plants have a few issues in flower. Is Calcitic lime just calcium carbonate?

Calcitic vs Dolomitic Limestone in Growing Media | PRO-MIX Greenhouse Growing

www.pthorticulture.com www.pthorticulture.com
 
S

stoobeey

Well-Known Member
IMG_20230513_131910_01.jpg
Well a little too dress of seabird guano and tm7 and tea and the 3 have started to blow up. Hopefully flip in a week. Lower right recent transplant so probably filling out the 7gal. The lower right here is the plant in too right earlier in post that branches were so weak they fell off touching.
IMG_20230513_132036_01.jpg
Here are the little guys that are all torched and yellow. Pretty incredible bounce back! They all went in bus potting soil with added ewc and perlite. My other bins were also shy a bit of N sorta , missing P again and micros so it got amended with a bit of fish bone meal, the guano, and tm7 and tea bout 2 weeks ago .

The saddest news is it seems all 5 seeds I popped of diff strains are all male . Waiting a few more days to be sure.
 
jimihendrix1

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
Yes Calcitic Lime is Calcium Carbonate.

Like I said. Promix BX uses both Calcitic, and Dolomite to both adjust soil PH, and add both good amounts of both Magnesium, and Calcium.

Dolomite is 20% Calcium. Calcium Carbonate is 40% Calcium, and is better for quickly adjusting soil PH, and the Dolomite acts better as a slower adjustment for PH. So you get both quick OH adjustment, and slower release. The Dolomite supplies Magnesium, and Calcitic has almost no Magnesium.

Used in a 2/3-1/3 ratio balances what is the good aspects of both types of lime. Considering Peat/Sphagnum Moss has neither Magnesium, or Calcium.
 
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