COB Manufacturers other than CREE or BRIDGELUX

[Airwalker16]

Bahahaha!

I'm already utilising bathroom vents to their max. Fresh air comes into the loft via what was the bathroom extractor vent situated in the eaves of the roof. Warm air is extracted out of the grow room via an inline carbon filter which leads to the old extractor vent in the bathroom ceiling... My bathroom is always warm!! But there's signs of my grow from outside, and no smell in the house at all

I've given a lot of thought to situating my rad outside. Realistically it ain't happening anytime soon.

There's signs of your grow outside?

 

[loftygoals]

There's signs of your grow outside?

*No signs

 

[coreywebster]

Yeah.

I know I could have better in terms of efficiency but not without spending (at the very least) 5x more.

Glad I got my small order in before hand, sounds like you have had away with half his stock! lol
Good luck with the build lofty, will look forward to seeing it.



They were here when I arrived home from work!!

 

[SimonMoon]

I have looked through the whole thread - and some others - but i was not really able to find the answer to my questions, so i'll post them here in hopes you can help me out.

I am about to start a new set-up, i am doing 4 x 4 plants on 1,2 x 1,2 meters (4' x 4') in a 1,5 x 1,5 (5' x 5') room. I used HPS previously, but have been interested in LEDs for some time now. Recently the quality of LEDs seem to have developed far enough for them to be able to compete with classic light sources.
Since my current main concern is temperature control, I am considering to switch to LEDs. (I am still using vents, but I want to get rid of the massive amounts of heat I get from HPS)
I have looked at commercial Grow LEDs (SpectrumKing, Bushmaster II or Blackdog) and while some seem nice, they all seem to be about one or two generations of LEDs behind, or use chips of less then optimal quality.
As far as I can figure this out - i am still new to this and don't really know yet which characteristics are the most important - the CLU058 182W Class COB seems to be the strongest LED out there, one that also seems to have a nice spectrum @ 3500K CRI(Ra) 90Min (not that i am absolutely sure what that means). Or is the CLU550 better?
I am considering to do 1 COB per plant; 4 x 4 chips over 1,2 x 1,2 meters, with some active cooling - i was thinking, i do a grid or full aluminium plate with a peltier in combination with a cpu type cooler on top of each of the chips.
Would that work? What would that be equal to in HPS (I know this is not really 1:1 equatable, but just roughly)? How strong can you run them and what is the difference? Cree or Citizen? Also, which driver would you suggest for the best outcome?

Basically I am trying to find the best LED solution I can get, since I am doing this just for myself, I am not concerned about cost efficiency. Your advice is very much appreciated.

TL;TR? If you could build the best LED system for 1,44m² (16sqf), what would you use?
Thanks

 

[Airwalker16]

I have looked through the whole thread - and some others - but i was not really able to find the answer to my questions, so i'll post them here in hopes you can help me out.

I am about to start a new set-up, i am doing 4 x 4 plants on 1,2 x 1,2 meters (4' x 4') in a 1,5 x 1,5 (5' x 5') room. I used HPS previously, but have been interested in LEDs for some time now. Recently the quality of LEDs seem to have developed far enough for them to be able to compete with classic light sources.
Since my current main concern is temperature control, I am considering to switch to LEDs. (I am still using vents, but I want to get rid of the massive amounts of heat I get from HPS)
I have looked at commercial Grow LEDs (SpectrumKing, Bushmaster II or Blackdog) and while some seem nice, they all seem to be about one or two generations of LEDs behind, or use chips of less then optimal quality.
As far as I can figure this out - i am still new to this and don't really know yet which characteristics are the most important - the CLU058 182W Class COB seems to be the strongest LED out there, one that also seems to have a nice spectrum @ 3500K CRI(Ra) 90Min (not that i am absolutely sure what that means). Or is the CLU550 better?
I am considering to do 1 COB per plant; 4 x 4 chips over 1,2 x 1,2 meters, with some active cooling - i was thinking, i do a grid or full aluminium plate with a peltier in combination with a cpu type cooler on top of each of the chips.
Would that work? What would that be equal to in HPS (I know this is not really 1:1 equatable, but just roughly)? How strong can you run them and what is the difference? Cree or Citizen? Also, which driver would you suggest for the best outcome?

Basically I am trying to find the best LED solution I can get, since I am doing this just for myself, I am not concerned about cost efficiency. Your advice is very much appreciated.

TL;TR? If you could build the best LED system for 1,44m² (16sqf), what would you use?
Thanks

16 cobs cree or citi. Both are great. But the peltier cooling hasn't been done before by anyone here. That'd be cool to see.

 

[SimonMoon]

16 cobs cree or citi. Both are great. But the peltier cooling hasn't been done before by anyone here. That'd be cool to see.

thank you, i am happy to share my build and my experience with the peltier when i get there, but you did not really answer any of my questions

 

[CobKits]

16 cobs cree or citi. Both are great. But the peltier cooling hasn't been done before by anyone here. That'd be cool to see.

its been discussed, the low efficiency of the method seemed like a deal killer

peltiers excel at creating low temps where chips like cpus can get a performance boost.

in our world the chip efficiency gains are on the same order as the peltier inefficiency so you added a whole layer of complexity for diminishing returns (if any at all)

 

[CobKits]

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/peltier.htm

Peltier elements have very low efficiency. They will consume more power than they transport! Actual peltier elements may consume twice as much energy (in the form of electricity) as they transport (in the form of heat). So, if you are using a peltier element, the heatsink it is used with must be much more powerful than a heatsink used for cooling a heat source without peltier element.

 

[CobKits]

the CLU058 182W Class COB seems to be the strongest LED out there, one that also seems to have a nice spectrum @ 3500K CRI(Ra) 90Min (not that i am absolutely sure what that means). Or is the CLU550 better?

CLU058 is more efficient and more cost effective

 

[loftygoals]

16 cobs cree or citi. Both are great. But the peltier cooling hasn't been done before by anyone here. That'd be cool to see.

I have done peltier cooling while I was experimenting.

Definitely not worth it. They are nowhere near as efficient as a compressor/evap type AC or water chiller. You create MASSIVE amounts of heat and unless your peltier is actively cooled it gets overwhelmed quickly and stops cooling.

The peltier uses up the same electricity as the COB being cooled Plus creates just as much heat - so your both your electricity and heat loads are doubled.

You have to think why you're cooling COBs? To increase efficiency right? So you gain 10% extra light by peltier cooling... but you're doubling the energy used and the heat produced... which eats up that small light gain.

I built a small peltier water chiller which I use on an aerocloner which could be justified because it was only like 150w and used for 7-14 days at a time.

 

[ttystikk]

TL;TR? If you could build the best LED system for 1,44m² (16sqf), what would you use?
Thanks

To answer just this question, look at a Maximizer from Johnson Grow Lights.

It matches your footprint and comes ready to connect to 6" air ducts. About 650W.

 

[ttystikk]

My setup is not actively water chilled. I run a car radiator and a 12V car radiator fan (at 5V so its barely audible).

Water pump: 28w (Eheim 1250)
Rad fan: 35w (80w "universal" 16 inch fan running at 5V)

Total 63w.

To cool 3600w of COBs that's not too bad. Under 2% of total power draw is for water cooling the lights.

In an active setup like ttystikk's he's using a water chiller in place of (or in addition to?) aircon. Instead of using air as your medium of heat transfer, he uses water to transfer heat away from the grow. Water chillers are more efficient than aircon units so he probably is paying less for his cooling than someone using passive/active COB heatsinks but then running aircon. He also has the advantage of getting more lumens with the cooler COBs. So it's a win/win.

I just needed to bring this post to everyone's attention, again.

Win/win is also called 'free lunch', where you gain more benefit than the input would predict.

In other words, 'efficiency'.

 

[ttystikk]

I have done peltier cooling while I was experimenting.

Definitely not worth it. They are nowhere near as efficient as a compressor/evap type AC or water chiller. You create MASSIVE amounts of heat and unless your peltier is actively cooled it gets overwhelmed quickly and stops cooling.

The peltier uses up the same electricity as the COB being cooled Plus creates just as much heat - so your both your electricity and heat loads are doubled.

You have to think why you're cooling COBs? To increase efficiency right? So you gain 10% extra light by peltier cooling... but you're doubling the energy used and the heat produced... which eats up that small light gain.

I built a small peltier water chiller which I use on an aerocloner which could be justified because it was only like 150w and used for 7-14 days at a time.

Peltier bad. Chiller GOOD.

You've got some skills. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with them.

 

[SimonMoon]

peltiers excel at creating low temps where chips like cpus can get a performance boost.

My take was that, since you can dial the temperature exchange via voltage on the peltier, you could set it to a lower transfer, just enough to help dissipate the heat from the chip. but that's just an idea. i have no problem working with passive, or fan cooled, or water cooled, if that works better. I am just trying to find the ideal way to approach this. Thanks for the pointers

 

[SimonMoon]

To answer just this question, look at a Maximizer from Johnson Grow Lights.

Thanks for the tip, but not uniform enough for me. I'd like one chip per plant, or a much more uniform distribution. And while the price is probably justified, my guess is I could make something better, more suitable for my needs, for less (I am also sitting in europe, and i am not willing to pay 30% tax and toll on top of an already hefty price).
Also, since I am doing a lot of DIY stuff (i am working on a fully automated fogponic setup, with built in water chiller, self cleaning system, automated feeding and nutrient mixing etc., all remotely controlled and observed), i like to do this myself too - unless i find a perfect fit. It always fun and you learn new things, when you do it yourself; and mistakes and bad products are not something you need to blame others for, but become opportunities for yourself to learn and grow. and i am all about letting things grow


Ok, lets assume I use the CLU058 182W Class COBs... what driver should i use for maximum possible performance, and how many of them (or how many cobs per driver)? again, this is not so much about saving money, as it is about performance and reduced heat (since the peltier idea has been tried and deemed unsuccessful, i probably go for water chilling, which i do have some experience in from several generations of water cooled PCs i have built).

 

[salmonetin]

http://www.newlux.com/product-detail/led-water-cooling-system/#

Applicable models

• PGL-PFL Series
• PGL-SPOT Series
• PGL-BOX Series

...they have more pics on pinterest...for each web page... i cant find the correct link for others pics i have... you must search in the web or pinterest to saw the rest of pics... sorry


...they said...

Advantages of Water Cooling Technology vs. Active Cooling

1. More than 50% energy savings.
2. Increased expected LED lifespan.
3. Increased intensity 30% in PAR output.

http://www.newlux.com/2015/09/15/benefits-of-led-water-cooling-technology-vs-active-cooling/

http://www.newlux.com/product-detail/led-water-cooling-system/#.V7hWhjXc2E4

http://www.newlux.com/2015/09/15/benefits-of-led-water-cooling-technology-vs-active-cooling/#.V7hWMTXc2E4

...i cant post more interesant pics about her water.cooling tech ...but they have more pics on pinterest...

...and yeah they use a small or medium size industrial chiller...... normal on a warm greenhouse or indoor warm grows...just my pov..
...its for take ideas or examples... as always...



Saludos

 

[ttystikk]

http://www.newlux.com/product-detail/led-water-cooling-system/#

Applicable models

• PGL-PFL Series
• PGL-SPOT Series
• PGL-BOX Series

...they have more pics on pinterest...for each web page... i cant find the correct link for others pics i have... you must search in the web or pinterest to saw the rest of pics... sorry


...they said...

Advantages of Water Cooling Technology vs. Active Cooling

1. More than 50% energy savings.
2. Increased expected LED lifespan.
3. Increased intensity 30% in PAR output.

http://www.newlux.com/2015/09/15/benefits-of-led-water-cooling-technology-vs-active-cooling/

http://www.newlux.com/product-detail/led-water-cooling-system/#.V7hWhjXc2E4

http://www.newlux.com/2015/09/15/benefits-of-led-water-cooling-technology-vs-active-cooling/#.V7hWMTXc2E4

...i cant post more interesant pics about her water.cooling tech ...but they have more pics on pinterest...

...and yeah they use a small or medium size industrial chiller...... normal on a warm greenhouse or indoor warm grows...just my pov..
...its for take ideas or examples... as always...


Saludos

These just came out recently. The chips they use are weak blurple garbage that don't need active cooling lol.

It makes much more sense to tie them into a whole facility HVAC system.

Interesting that they would rush such a half baked design into production.

 

[salmonetin]

...blurpe garbage... lol... but we can customize it ....and blurpe garbage on high outputs needs active cooling or a better waterproof way... bad leds and bad drivers with high output generate lot of heat... ...then better go on active or water cooling solutions...just my pov...

...i saw great results with blurpe lights... ...but with good leds and drivers...

...remember my point its DIY... sometimes its better customizer a simple led/s lamp... only change the led and the driver... sometimes its better go on diy from start on new proyect... lots of variables...

....and i like the blurpe way too... but with good leds and good brands too...not cheap chinese...(my note if we use cheap chinese the lifetime are compromised ...then we need to asume some big fails too...money talk always) i always believe in good leds or brands...
...but lot of times theres a lot of work changing discrete leds... thats why cobs its on fire.... but its not a big problem to me...more work... more diversion... for a factory yeah its a problem...
...its a lot of more easy works with less leds... but for me no problemo works with monos too.. yeah i dont care the work... im on DIY... not in shell ...

...on diy side we can canibalize other comercial lamps ... to go on our preferences...



Saludos

 

[ttystikk]

http://www.newlux.com/product-detail/led-water-cooling-system/#

Applicable models

• PGL-PFL Series
• PGL-SPOT Series
• PGL-BOX Series

...they have more pics on pinterest...for each web page... i cant find the correct link for others pics i have... you must search in the web or pinterest to saw the rest of pics... sorry


...they said...

Advantages of Water Cooling Technology vs. Active Cooling

1. More than 50% energy savings.
2. Increased expected LED lifespan.
3. Increased intensity 30% in PAR output.

http://www.newlux.com/2015/09/15/benefits-of-led-water-cooling-technology-vs-active-cooling/

http://www.newlux.com/product-detail/led-water-cooling-system/#.V7hWhjXc2E4

http://www.newlux.com/2015/09/15/benefits-of-led-water-cooling-technology-vs-active-cooling/#.V7hWMTXc2E4

...i cant post more interesant pics about her water.cooling tech ...but they have more pics on pinterest...

...and yeah they use a small or medium size industrial chiller...... normal on a warm greenhouse or indoor warm grows...just my pov..
...its for take ideas or examples... as always...



Saludos

@REALSTYLES

 

[salmonetin]

...let Realstyles go with her diy lamps... they go ok with her diy lamps...
...(he "learn" some things from Supra...good master...good alumn)...just my pov...

...and seems to me ...he dont wont the extra work on canibalize a comercial lamp with monos and change the bad monos with good ones... its a lot of work... sometimes we need change or make other mcpcb for the new leds... need reflow ok all this parts... rewire... re.driv....etc etc

..seems to me he prefer go on start a new diy lamp... not in canibalize or adapt other lamps... maybe im wrong...

...a salute for Realstyles.... i follow her vids on youtube... its another bro from here ...at least from my pov...

...yeah sometimes he overpass some things... but on this crisis times... i understand her ups and downs...

...el que este libre de pecado que tire la primera piedra... todos tenemos fallos... todos nos caemos y nos levantamos... no queda otra...

..always respect other ways... FULL RESPECT

cheers bros



Saludos