There's Been No Bait-And-Switch On Cannabis Legalization

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jenna-valleriani/trudeau-cannabis-legalization_b_13522476.html

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau recently expressed frustration around the current cannabis landscape, explaining, "Until we have brought in the proposed system... the current prohibition stands," and encouraging police to enforce the law, particularly as it pertains to the continued expansion of medical cannabis dispensaries in major cities across Canada.

The response has been one of uniform frustration from many angles, but I don't believe Justin Trudeau actually lied about the Liberal party's intentions on the cannabis file.

From the very beginning, the emphasis has always been on restricting and regulating access to cannabis. In September 2015, Trudeau said he would not like to see cannabis sold at corner stores. In 2014, Trudeau said his government would legalize and make it more difficult -- not easier -- for children to get their hands on marijuana (which implies more regulation).

As early as 2013, he was quoted saying, "Our government has no interest in seeing any of these drugs legalized or made more easily available to youth," and more recently he has been reaffirming the intention that, "our approach on legalizing marijuana is not about creating a boutique industry or bringing in tax revenues." The budget did not even include any mention of marijuana.

The biggest mistake of the Liberal party in the lead up to legalization has certainly been the continued enforcement of cannabis laws.
To claim now that Trudeau lied seems confusing -- no government could really get away with a legalization 'free for all,' but more importantly, a majority of Canadians don't want that. While there is certainly more room to have an open conversation about job creation, tax revenue, and stimulating our economy, often many of these objectives, whether we want to admit it or not, can be at odds with a public health approach to legalization.

When he says the government is not trying to "appease recreational users," it's in reference to a system that needs to work for both cannabis users and a majority of the population who are not actually regular cannabis users.

I will agree that there has been a marked shift in how Justin Trudeau seemed to acknowledge the role of medical cannabis dispensaries early on -- hinting that there may be room for them in an eventual legalized regime. However, it's important to point out the dispensary landscape has changed drastically over the last two years. Now that seems a bit hazier, where dispensaries, in most cases outside Victoria and Vancouver, have been pushed further away from participation in impending legalization.

However, it's likely that municipalities and provinces will be given some discretion to implement distribution models that make sense in their jurisdictions. Victoria, as probably the best example of how it could work, offers a lot of knowledge and experience in the case of making on site dispensing work under a recreational model.

The biggest mistake of the Liberal party in the lead up to legalization has certainly been the continued enforcement of cannabis laws. While Canadians have many opinions on how legalization should roll out, most would likely agree that the most pressing issue is the ongoing criminalization of cannabis.

People simply don't deserve to be punished under a law that is widely regarded as doing more harm than good to Canadian citizens. This didn't have to mean "decriminalization" in the typical sense, it could have been simply an order to stop prosecuting possession charges and offer pardons.

While there is an argument to be made about the difficulty of transitioning from a decriminalization-type system to legalization, models such as Portugal show decriminalization doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach -- in their case, they've decriminalize the possession and use of a substance, and yet continue to enforce laws around trafficking and production of drugs. The possession of small quantities of those drugs was shifted to a public-health rather than criminal issue. When the possession of cannabis accounts for such a large majority of drug offenses in Canada, there is a very common sense argument to be made from many angles about immediately halting arrests.

But the plan has always been to "legalize, regulate, and restrict access to marijuana" -- while this brings up many questions about the right or best way to legalize cannabis in Canada (and we should be critical of what these plans mean)-- it's what the Liberals have always represented in their approach to cannabis legalization.
gtonpost.ca/jenna-valleriani/trudeau-cannabis-legalization_b_13522476.html
 

CannaReview

Well-Known Member
no government could really get away with a legalization 'free for all,
Why not? It would solve all problems at once. The plant would be worth less over night, It would kill all illegal activity, it would lead to social attitude change as just another plant. What is different than when the plant was free before? Oh yah you made it illegal so people got curious about it and as they got more curious it started to have value in the illegal market. Oh and guess what your kids probably wont want it as it won't be cool anymore.
 

zoic

Well-Known Member
So I have looked at this from many perspectives and I can see their need to approach this slowly. Because of the vast disparity of supply from LP's .vs the black market, the BM has lost very little, IMHO. So perhaps they are worried if they just make it legal all round that the BM will just become further entrenched, especially to youth.

I do not see any danger in youth receiving cannabis medicine safely prepared for a specific situation. I cannot however ignore the science behind the claims that high THC strains out there now, that have had CBD hybridized out of them, can cause THC induced schizophrenia, anxiety etc.. CBD is important because is has been scientifically proven to modulate THC to the CB1 receptor.

So I think I favor and smarter approach to this than a bull in a china shop. For sure we should have the right to grow our own and the freedom to use it however we choose in our home at least..
 
Last edited:

Uberknot

Well-Known Member
jebus....the law is the law wait till they change it instead of trying to shove it down their throats....

They have to follow the law and they will until they change it....

So hold onto your horses and let the man do his job.

It could be worse.....no legalization and complete crack down....be thankful he's PM.

Thing is all laws can be revoked and changed later, So I don't really trust what happens year to year.
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
The law has been the law for 90 years and hasn't stopped us from growing. We're sick of being trampled on by the establishment and will not accept a watered down version of legalization, nor a closed loop market for a few players with contacts and big bucks. It's our plant, we're the one's who fought to get here, we won't be brushed aside and we won't take any more bullshit laws.

Accepting a watered down version of legalization on the current path is like fighting a war for 90 years then asking us to accept a small island off the coast and asking us to thank them for it. No more bullshit, legal and open market that will accommodate all players, favouritism and locking out the small players is not acceptable.
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
So I have looked at this from many perspectives and I can the need to approach this slowly. Because of the vast disparity of supply from LP's .vs the black market, the BM has lost very little, IMHO. So perhaps they are worried if they just make it legal all round that the BM will just become further entrenched, especially to youth.

I do not see any danger in youth receiving cannabis medicine safely prepared for a specific situation. I cannot however ignore the science behind the claims that high THC strains out there now, that have had CBD hybridized out of them, can cause THC induced schizophrenia, anxiety etc.. CBD is important because is has been scientifically proven to modulate THC to the CB1 receptor.

So I think I favor and smarter approach to this than a bull in a china shop. For sure we should have the right to grow our own and the freedom to use it however we choose in our home at least..
'More entrenched, especially to youth'? Hate to break it to you, but the only way cannabis would be more accessible to youth is if it was given away in halloween candy bags. Overbroad and unnecessary restrictions will make the BM thrive.

Also THC induced schizophrenia? Has there been one documented case where consuming cannabis resulted in a lifelong debilitating mental condition? So long as it's perfectly legal for someone of age to go into a liquor store and purchase grain alcohol, or into a convenience store and purchase cigarettes, substances which do have proven and serious health consequences, all of these arguments about the potential dangers of cannabis don't hold water.

Same goes for 'lol it could be worse!', that's the epitome of a non-argument. Trudeau has many options for easing criminal penalties ahead of legalization, and instead he chose to say 'we're not doing this to please recreational users'.

Jenna is absolutely correct in saying there has no been bait and switch on the premise of legalization, Trudeau was very clear on the 'regulate and restrict' aspects. Trudeau's tone , however, has definitely changed.
 

zoic

Well-Known Member
I want to make sure I was not misunderstood, I agree completely with you both. I was kinda speculating on the way they may see it.
.
You know as in "the way you see it', "the way I see it" and of course "the way it is"
For me "the way it is" boils down to this: I have done whatever I want for over 40 years, carefully enough to squeak out of some very "close calls". I would just rather remove prohibition (globally) altogether and let the cards fall where they may. I do not like having to look over my shoulder but it is a good "defensive mechanism" to have. Lately I will be puffing one and a cop will roll up beside me. I just keep puffing, windows partly open, because I get tired of the cat and mouse game. Now they are starting to do swabbing so I need to go back to being a little more guarded.
 

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
I cannot however ignore the science behind the claims that high THC strains out there now, that have had CBD hybridized out of them, can cause THC induced schizophrenia, anxiety etc..
This is completely factually incorrect. In instances with pre existing mental health issues, MAYBE
 

Jackal69

Well-Known Member
Why not? It would solve all problems at once. The plant would be worth less over night, It would kill all illegal activity, it would lead to social attitude change as just another plant. What is different than when the plant was free before? Oh yah you made it illegal so people got curious about it and as they got more curious it started to have value in the illegal market. Oh and guess what your kids probably wont want it as it won't be cool anymore.
Sure you would get alot dumbasses at the beginning but it would mellow out
 

zoic

Well-Known Member
Also THC induced schizophrenia? Has there been one documented case where consuming cannabis resulted in a lifelong debilitating mental condition?
I understand it is a temporary situation. Pardon my "what if" but if someone experienced a THC induced impairment while driving it could have devastating results, indirectly., but it will still probably be claimed on the cannabis. The easy solution IMHO is to breed the CBD back into more strains. I personally think receiving a medical benefit while also getting high is a real win/win. Since CBD modulates THC (antagonist) it would seem to be a no brainer to help reduce any problems with THC induced complications.

Think of alcohol. You have one drink and then drive it is usually no problem. Now have 4 drinks different story. Are your judgement and reflexes impaired? How much? I know my driving is better, more relaxed and safer when I drive stoned. When I used to drink I used to do some wreckless things, mostly I think because my judgement was likely impaired.
 

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
I understand it is a temporary situation. Pardon my "what if" but if someone experienced a THC induced impairment while driving it could have devastating results, indirectly., but it will still probably be claimed on the cannabis. The easy solution IMHO is to breed the CBD back into more strains. I personally think receiving a medical benefit while also getting high is a real win/win. Since CBD modulates THC (antagonist) it would seem to be a no brainer to help reduce any problems with THC induced complications.

Think of alcohol. You have one drink and then drive it is usually no problem. Now have 4 drinks different story. Are your judgement and reflexes impaired? How much? I know my driving is better, more relaxed and safer when I drive stoned. When I used to drink I used to do some wreckless things, mostly I think because my judgement was likely impaired.
Except its apples to oranges. Alcohol and cannabis affect the nervous system differently. Also theres no such thing as THC induced schizophrenia, temporary or not. It sounds like youre simply describing impairment itself
 

zoic

Well-Known Member
This is completely factually incorrect
Which part. the CBD induced or the because the CBD is bred out of them part?
FYI, you can believe what you like, but I saw it first had. About 12 years ago my wife stopped smoking 1/2 way thru a joint because she had a severe panic attack. It was so severe she we had to go to the hospital and she QUIT for twelve years because she continued to have panic attacks that turned into panic disorder. She has been on a variety of crappy meds since then. A few years ago after me touting how much pain relief I was getting, I convinced her to give it a try for her fibro etc.. She did and now smokes again, but selectively from strains I help her choose from Tweed or elsewhere. So far, so good, no more full blown panic attacks. The cannabis seems to HELP her anxiety now most of the time. Just sayin :-)
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
Except its apples to oranges. Alcohol and cannabis affect the nervous system differently. Also theres no such thing as THC induced schizophrenia, temporary or not. It sounds like youre simply describing impairment itself
Exactly. The task force recognized that a per se (specific limit, like 0.08 for alcohol) THC limit is not supported by scientific evidence and will not stand up to Charter scrutiny. Treating alcohol and cannabis as the same thing is not supported by the evidence, not to mention just a bad idea overall. People do that because alcohol is the other substance to have prohibition repealed over, not really for any good reason.

Depending on 'legalization', breeders will be free to breed whatever strains they want, although I imagine advertising restrictions will prevent any claims of strains being 'driving friendly'. I sure hope you are not suggesting mandating some % of CBD in all cannabis sold, because that's just a different kind of prohibition.
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
Which part. the CBD induced or the because the CBD is bred out of them part?
FYI, you can believe what you like, but I saw it first had. About 12 years ago my wife stopped smoking 1/2 way thru a joint because she had a severe panic attack. It was so severe she we had to go to the hospital and she QUIT for twelve years because she continued to have panic attacks that turned into panic disorder. She has been on a variety of crappy meds since then. A few years ago after me touting how much pain relief I was getting, I convinced her to give it a try for her fibro etc.. She did and now smokes again, but selectively from strains I help her choose from Tweed or elsewhere. So far, so good, no more full blown panic attacks. The cannabis seems to HELP her anxiety now most of the time. Just sayin :-)
Cannabis affects different people differently, which is also more or less saying the sky is blue. As I said above, breeders should be free to breed whatever they want in response to consumer demand. Mandating potency or cannabinoid percentages is an affront to personal choice and freedom, and will fall under a charter challenge faster than LP stock price on Allard victory day.
 

zoic

Well-Known Member
Also theres no such thing as THC induced schizophrenia, temporary or not. It sounds like you are simply describing impairment itself
OK. My wife's cousin is schizophrenic. She had to quit smoking pot because it just sent her into cartwheels. I am certainly not trying to tout anything I say as factual. I have read this in at least a few places, not junk sites and comparing it to my observation of real life examples is seems to bear some credibility.
Cheers!
 

zoic

Well-Known Member
I sure hope you are not suggesting mandating some % of CBD in all cannabis sold, because that's just a different kind of prohibition.
No, of course not. I said I would like to see more strains with at least some CBD. It is slim pickings for me right now, most of what I see has 0.0% CBD. Still shopping around.
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
No, of course not. I said I would like to see more strains with at least some CBD. It is slim pickings for me right now, most of what I see has 0.0% CBD. Still shopping around.
It's likely you'll see a good variety in strains as a direct results of the CBD good THC bad thing (whether it's justified or not). Just another example of why it's a net benefit for things to truly be 'free and fair'.
 

zoic

Well-Known Member
Exactly. The task force recognized that a per se (specific limit, like 0.08 for alcohol) THC limit is not supported by scientific evidence and will not stand up to Charter scrutiny. Treating alcohol and cannabis as the same thing is not supported by the evidence, not to mention just a bad idea overall.
LOL, this inspired a very funny thought. You know those TV shows where they keep giving people more alcohol and test their driving to see when they screw up? It would be hilarious if they did that show with cannabis instead. They would likely need a mini-series because one episode would not be long enough to see some one screw up. ROFLMAO.
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
If you can't find what you want, you should be able to make your own ;) This is a cross with Harlequin I'll be working to find a 75/25% THC/CBD pheno. There's back-crossed and F2's branches on this one. The search begins when this one is harvested :)

BRxHarlequin-P1-Day39-COBs-1.JPG

The part that gets me about the restrictive form of legalization is if I find that pheno and I want to share it, selling or even giving it away, I'd likely be persecuted under the new regime. That to me is not legalization.
 
Top