"If you do not believe in climate change, you should not be allowed to hold public office"

[Sir Napsalot]

Sure, keeping old cars is cool and saves you money but come on, don't try claim it's environmentally friendly.

The California Air Resources Board estimated that for California, the average life of a car was 200,000 miles. In states that salt roads in the winter it's substantially lower.

So that's ~2.5 cars that weren't built because I've kept my car going so long

 

[SneekyNinja]

The California Air Resources Board estimated that for California, the average life of a car was 200,000 miles. In states that salt roads in the winter it's substantially lower.

So that's ~2.5 cars that weren't built because I've kept my car going so long

The thing is, they were built regardless.

It's the same bullshit with vegetarians, the animal still gets slaughtered and packaged despite your protest.

If you retired those "black smokers" they could be used for parts and you'd get a car that does decent mileage and doesn't fuck the environment.

Your cars puts out emissions that new cars don't put out at all.

I'm not ragging on you tho, I'd a 1990 Ford Fiesta (the Sky Blue one, lol, ugly as hell) and it was a rocket for its tiny engine, like a go kart you can throw around corners...

But lets be honest, they're friendly to your wallet and all power to you, I mean that. Keep them running, I don't oppose it in anyway whatsoever except the claim it's environmentally friendly.

 

[666888]

The most environmental vehicles are 2 strokes
To many moving parts in a 4 stroke
And a hell of a lot of mining goes into sourcing materials for lithium batteries

 

[SneekyNinja]

The most environmental vehicles are 2 strokes
To many moving parts in a 4 stroke
And a hell of a lot of mining goes into sourcing materials for lithium batteries

Electric motors have none of the issues you describe, occasionally the carbon brushes fail on older style motors but it's just carbon with a wire attached.

As for batteries, China is mining massive quantities of lithium anyway, may as well put it to good use. But there's also enough lithium cells in discarded electronic products to build battery packs for millions of cars.

 

[Sir Napsalot]

If you retired those "black smokers" they could be used for parts and you'd get a car that does decent mileage and doesn't fuck the environment.

Your cars puts out emissions that new cars don't put out at all.

I'm not ragging on you tho, I'd a 1990 Ford Fiesta (the Sky Blue one, lol, ugly as hell) and it was a rocket for its tiny engine, like a go kart you can throw around corners...

But lets be honest, they're friendly to your wallet and all power to you, I mean that. Keep them running, I don't oppose it in anyway whatsoever except the claim it's environmentally friendly.

My car doesn't smoke, the engine was balanced and blueprinted and gets 32mpg in town.

We only got Fiestas here in the US from '78-'80

 

[Fogdog]

That was the attraction of older cars to begin with; the ability to easily repair them was a design priority. Now it isn't. What changed, besides the ability of corporate greed to ruin everything it touches?

This road has been traveled before. What you say only makes sense if the new car has similar gas mileage to the older one.

From: http://web.mit.edu/sloan-auto-lab/research/beforeh2/files/weiss_otr2020.pdf
From Table 5.4: About 75% of all emissions over the life of a conventional gasoline-powered 1996 car (Toyota Camry) are generated in use. Only about 7% of total emissions are generated during manufacture. What you say only makes sense if the new car has similar gas mileage to the older one.

The effect of better gas mileage over the life of a car is huge in terms of cutting total emissions:

1996 Camry sedan, manual transmission EPA MPG: is about about 23 mpg
source: Toyota

Conventional gasoline engine, mid-size or compact cars, best mileage is about 36 mpg
source: https://www.cars.com/articles/best-and-worst-gas-mileage-2016-1420683223195/

If same manufacturing methods and fuel delivery methods are observed, then the total emissions (including manufacturing, fuel production and delivery, emissions on the road) of the car over its life cycle is:

1996 Camry: grams Carbon/km = 71.8 g C/km; at 20,000 km/yr for 10 years: 14,000 kg

2016 fuel efficient compact or mid-size car: 51 g C/km; at 20,000 km/yr for 10 yrs: 10,496 kg

So, getting rid of an old car -- that is not a bad choice in terms of carbon emissions.

 

[666888]

Electric motors have none of the issues you describe, occasionally the carbon brushes fail on older style motors but it's just carbon with a wire attached.

As for batteries, China is mining massive quantities of lithium anyway, may as well put it to good use. But there's also enough lithium cells in discarded electronic products to build battery packs for millions of cars.

There is a bit more than lithium in a battery , cobalt, nickel and graphite as well, then you got a shit load of copper wiring for the electric motors
And then you need a lot more base load electricity supply, because if everyone goes electric, cars, trucks and public transport
Your going to need a shit load more power from somewhere,

 

[SneekyNinja]

There is a bit more than lithium in a battery , cobalt, nickel and graphite as well, then you got a shit load of copper wiring for the electric motors
And then you need a lot more base load electricity supply, because if everyone goes electric, cars, trucks and public transport
Your going to need a shit load more power from somewhere,

We're going to need a shitload of power anyway.

But think of the energy expended in finding, fighting for, drilling, refining, logistics... of oil.

We've a 3 billion year supply of an amount of power we can't properly comprehend (as tiny human beings) and we're not exploiting it anywhere near its potential.

Panels can run up to 90% of their max output on cloudy days...

A 4.4KwH system has a ROI of 6-7 years but it's guaranteed for 25.

(That's enough to run a family household and 2 600w HPS and still charge the batteries for night time)

It just makes sense to me that we start to adapt to the available technology.

 

[Justin-case]

We're going to need a shitload of power anyway.

But think of the energy expended in finding, fighting for, drilling, refining, logistics... of oil.

We've a 3 billion year supply of an amount of power we can't properly comprehend (as tiny human beings) and we're not exploiting it anywhere near its potential.

Panels can run up to 90% of their max output on cloudy days...

A 4.4KwH system has a ROI of 6-7 years but it's guaranteed for 25.

(That's enough to run a family household and 2 600w HPS and still charge the batteries for night time)

It just makes sense to me that we start to adapt to the available technology.

The life span depends on the panels, the cheaper Chinese ones have had some problems. The charge controllers, inverters and batteries have come a long way too.

 

[SneekyNinja]

The life span depends on the panels, the cheaper Chinese ones have had some problems. The charge controllers, inverters and batteries have come a long way too.

It becomes very cheap when you just pay for panel installation and do the rest yourself. Building battery packs costs nothing if you can snatch up battery packs from broken/old laptops, they're usually about 1 in 3 good cells.

(I use them for other stuff, haven't actually gone green on the house yet).

Way cheaper than a lithium battery module from a major manufacturer. Just wire them in parallel to make sections at 3.7v and wire those sections in series to push the voltage to whatever you need.

 

[ttystikk]

Is climate change the same as "Global Warming" except colder ?

Learn some science. Might even help you grow better.

 

[ttystikk]

The most environmental vehicles are 2 strokes
To many moving parts in a 4 stroke
And a hell of a lot of mining goes into sourcing materials for lithium batteries

Astoundingly ignorant. How do you make it through the day? Does someone keep you on a leash so you'll stay out of traffic?

 

[ttystikk]

This road has been traveled before. What you say only makes sense if the new car has similar gas mileage to the older one.

From: http://web.mit.edu/sloan-auto-lab/research/beforeh2/files/weiss_otr2020.pdf
From Table 5.4: About 75% of all emissions over the life of a conventional gasoline-powered 1996 car (Toyota Camry) are generated in use. Only about 7% of total emissions are generated during manufacture. What you say only makes sense if the new car has similar gas mileage to the older one.

The effect of better gas mileage over the life of a car is huge in terms of cutting total emissions:

1996 Camry sedan, manual transmission EPA MPG: is about about 23 mpg
source: Toyota

Conventional gasoline engine, mid-size or compact cars, best mileage is about 36 mpg
source: https://www.cars.com/articles/best-and-worst-gas-mileage-2016-1420683223195/

If same manufacturing methods and fuel delivery methods are observed, then the total emissions (including manufacturing, fuel production and delivery, emissions on the road) of the car over its life cycle is:

1996 Camry: grams Carbon/km = 71.8 g C/km; at 20,000 km/yr for 10 years: 14,000 kg

2016 fuel efficient compact or mid-size car: 51 g C/km; at 20,000 km/yr for 10 yrs: 10,496 kg

So, getting rid of an old car -- that is not a bad choice in terms of carbon emissions.

No no no, this does NOT account for the environmental destruction of the necessary natural resources extraction in order to acquire the raw materials. It just covers manufacturing and transit/assembly to build a car.

Carbon emissions are only one of many ways automobile manufacturing damages the environment.

 

[ttystikk]

There is a bit more than lithium in a battery , cobalt, nickel and graphite as well, then you got a shit load of copper wiring for the electric motors
And then you need a lot more base load electricity supply, because if everyone goes electric, cars, trucks and public transport
Your going to need a shit load more power from somewhere,

Electric cars use only 10-15% of the energy gasoline powered cars do. That doesn't take into account the multiple involved in extraction and refining the gasoline, either.

 

[SneekyNinja]

Electric cars use only 10-15% of the energy gasoline powered cars do. That doesn't take into account the multiple involved in extraction and refining the gasoline, either.

Copper is also one of the primary components and one of the most widely recycled metals on the planet.

 

[Fogdog]

No no no, this does NOT account for the environmental destruction of the necessary natural resources extraction in order to acquire the raw materials. It just covers manufacturing and transit/assembly to build a car.

Carbon emissions are only one of many ways automobile manufacturing damages the environment.

The topic is climate change, so yes carbon emission are an important consideration.

Cars are more and more made from recycled materials. Some estimates put 25% of a car body as made from recycled metal. In the example I gave, the new more efficient car put out 25% less carbon than a good but less efficient car did. Just saying that if reducing carbon footprint is of high value to the consumer then the "buy old for greener car" doesn't hold.

If you want to do better then buy a new electric vehicle.

 

[fdd2blk]

I really want to drive a gross polluter but I live in California.

 

[666888]

Astoundingly ignorant. How do you make it through the day? Does someone keep you on a leash so you'll stay out of traffic?

Yeah you are right ttyshit
2 strokes are shit I will have to get rid of mine, only use them for racing anyway
I'm trying to do my best for the planet(think of the little kiddies future), if I get rid of the 2 strokes that leaves 14' 4strokes + 9' 4stroke racing motors to replace the 2strokes
That should help save the planet

or I could just grow outside and save hundreds of tonnes of co2 from getting pumped into the atmosphere (unlike some global warming preachers)
And maybe plant a couple of thousand trees

 

[Justin-case]

I really want to drive a gross polluter but I live in California.

Get a kubal wagon, it would suit you well.

 

[fdd2blk]

Get a kubal wagon, it would suit you well.

Pre 1975 are smog exempt. That just may work.