Mark Blyth, the economist who's making sense

[ttystikk]

You are a brainwashed idiot if you think you can credit the evil done by Nazi's to them being "extreme right-wingers". Nazis were not conservatives, they were leftists for big government. Nazi stands for National Socialist.

Conservatives or right-wing is supposed to mean:
Individualism (as opposed to collectivism and identity politics. Nazis were identity driven look at how they viewed ALL Jews)
Pro-free speech (Nazis were anti-free speech JUST LIKE LEFTIST Marxists and the ANTIFA terrorist organization)
Pro-free market (Nazis were against the free market. Nazi Germany took over Jewish businesses and private businesses)
Pro- Democratic Republican government (Nazi's HATED elections, just like Marxists and ANTIFA do too)

Oh yeah, and Nazis were violent too. Statistically, conservatives aren't nearly as violent compared to liberals. Just look at the rural crime rate (conservtive) compared to the inner city crime rates (liberal)

The German Democratic Republic was EAST GERMANY. How Democratic do you think they were?

Stop trying to hide behind a label that was meant from the very beginning to be misleading.

I've been watching what you say. Some of it is on point. This, however, is way off base. The Nazis were the archetypal fascist organization.

Whatever you do, don't believe THEIR propaganda, bro.

The largest group of terrorists in America today, by far, are white right wing conservatives. Fact.

 

[twostrokenut]

and what do you call the re-distribution to the top 1% for the past 40 years, in the form of tax cuts and negative effective tax rate?

Marxism, right?

sure.

the progressive graduated tax, and the huge title 26 that comes with it, is literally the 2nd plank of the manifesto.

 

[twostrokenut]

Just saying it's so dumb it comes off as trolling. Have you ever actually studied history?

Nazis were not Marxists. That's an idiotic thing to say.

I guess I have to spell it out for you: redistribution is the government policy part. Basically, keep the ship sailing. Pacify the masses and all that. We have enough wealth to do it, but we have a distribution problem. We also have a manipulation problem where people are using the government to benefit themselves at the cost of the public, many instances in an exorbitant fashion.

American culture is troubled in many ways, not just mass ignorance about economics, but racism, tribalism, violent ideologies, violence, senseless greed, etc.

sure they were Marxists. literally. that's why the commies were their political enemy. communism was international and not racists, that's where the two clashed. other than that they were almost identical.

and yes, there is a manipulation problem. I guess where we differ is only that government enables and created that problem.

you can't blame anyone for taking something that was offered to them.....welfare or tax breaks, poor or rich.

if you want to go so far as to say "the elites" had a hand in writing policy I am right there with you......jeckyll island is clear on that.

but I can't jump on your train and just blame the elites. authoritarian government is the problem. using it for your version of good doesn't make it less authoritarian or magically place it on the left of the political spectrum where it always was and still is.

 

[twostrokenut]

Hmmmm. So you support subsidizing mega corporations at the expense of the average taxpayer?

It's okay with you that they can pump billions into our political system and deduct it from their taxes?

It's fine that they can dismantle protections from environment to credit cards and even bankruptcy in order to boost their profits?

Go back to counting pennies. It's a world you understand.

it's clear that I don't. we discussed this very issue earlier in the thread so why the strawman?

 

[twostrokenut]

Yes he's a troll. He's just as inept at it as he is at everything else in life.

Distracting the masses with Nazi marches and bad water is great because it keeps the spotlight off the mega corporations who have parasitized our country's productivity to the point where 'we can't afford' basic services, healthcare, education, infrastructure, etc.

Our country would be putting the growth of China to shame if big business and wealthy individuals paid even as much as the average middle class family in terms of percentage of income.

Instead, they're subsidized to the point where they don't pay taxes, they actually GET money for operating! Not exactly a level playing field.

No one NEEDS a billion dollars and it's time we take the money back. What they've done with it amounts to crimes against humanity.

oh Lord it's the mega corps. you realize that you sound exactly like the jew conspirators right?

instead of saying the Jews youre saying mega corps and the elites, the 1%. you sound just like the holocaust deniers except youre not openly saying Jews are to blame.

it's really no different, you are just looking to eat someone, it's all cannabilism bruh.

 

[SneekyNinja]

sure they were Marxists. literally. that's why the commies were their political enemy. communism was international and not racists, that's where the two clashed. other than that they were almost identical.

and yes, there is a manipulation problem. I guess where we differ is only that government enables and created that problem.

you can't blame anyone for taking something that was offered to them.....welfare or tax breaks, poor or rich.

if you want to go so far as to say "the elites" had a hand in writing policy I am right there with you......jeckyll island is clear on that.

but I can't jump on your train and just blame the elites. authoritarian government is the problem. using it for your version of good doesn't make it less authoritarian or magically place it on the left of the political spectrum where it always was and still is.

They clearly were not fucking Marxists...Jesus Fucking Christ.

The Nazis were ANTI Marxist.

 

[ttystikk]

They clearly were not fucking Marxists...Jesus Fucking Christ.

The Nazis were ANTI Marxist.

They even picked a fight with them- that ultimately cost them the war.

Russian front, anyone?

 

[SneekyNinja]

They even picked a fight with them- that ultimately cost them the war.

Russian front, anyone?

Marxism is based around the idea of a class uprising...

Nazism is based around the idea of "Germany is the best, serve your country and pure blooded people".

 

[ttystikk]

oh Lord it's the mega corps. you realize that you sound exactly like the jew conspirators right?

instead of saying the Jews youre saying mega corps and the elites, the 1%. you sound just like the holocaust deniers except youre not openly saying Jews are to blame.

it's really no different, you are just looking to eat someone, it's all cannabilism bruh.

You have a special talent; you can drool out of both sides of your mouth at once.

I've explained the donor class before; they're the ones who can contribute millions to political campaigns with money they'd otherwise be paying in taxes.

Corporations do exactly the same thing- but only big ones. Small ones don't have enough of a tax bill.

This is the money used to contribute to campaigns and SuperPACs.

It's got nothing to do with Jews, it has everything to do with the ultra rich influencing our government for their own ends, which are increasingly opposed to the needs of the vast majority of our country. Follow the money.

This is why Citizens United is such a threat to our democracy.

If you ever learned to think, you'd understand what I'm taking about.

Since you don't, you're still counting pennies, drooling out of both sides of your mouth and screaming, 'conspiracy theory!!' every time someone says something you don't understand.

 

[ttystikk]

sure.

the progressive graduated tax, and the huge title 26 that comes with it, is literally the 2nd plank of the manifesto.

You're exactly fucking backwards, idiot.

She's talking about regressive taxes.

It's called English. Maybe if you quit drooling so much you'd learn to speak it.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Bernie Sanders while he was still posing as a left leaning progressive.

What was left out forshadowed his rightward movement in policies:

“Modify your positions. Let’s work together to try to save this planet and protect the middle class.”

What policies supported by Bernie Sanders are right wing?

 

[twostrokenut]

They clearly were not fucking Marxists...Jesus Fucking Christ.

The Nazis were ANTI Marxist.

they implimented marxism almost to the letter. the difference was racism as I said before.

one focused on race instead of class. this was functionally the only difference.

edit: and it happened so fast the American left didn't have a chance to really sing economic praises to germany, the way they did to Soviet Russia before and Venezuela later.

 

[twostrokenut]

You're exactly fucking backwards, idiot.

She's talking about regressive taxes.

It's called English. Maybe if you quit drooling so much you'd learn to speak it.

oh so those tax breaks aren't contained in title 26?

of course it ended up regressive, it always does. way to lose your cool dude, guess you will always be the same.

Marxism always ends up serving the elites.

if you ever took some time to read some of the statutes we operate under, you would be dangerous.

 

[twostrokenut]

You have a special talent; you can drool out of both sides of your mouth at once.

I've explained the donor class before; they're the ones who can contribute millions to political campaigns with money they'd otherwise be paying in taxes.

Corporations do exactly the same thing- but only big ones. Small ones don't have enough of a tax bill.

This is the money used to contribute to campaigns and SuperPACs.

It's got nothing to do with Jews, it has everything to do with the ultra rich influencing our government for their own ends, which are increasingly opposed to the needs of the vast majority of our country. Follow the money.

This is why Citizens United is such a threat to our democracy.

If you ever learned to think, you'd understand what I'm taking about.

Since you don't, you're still counting pennies, drooling out of both sides of your mouth and screaming, 'conspiracy theory!!' every time someone says something you don't understand.

when you are done insulting me perhaps ask yourself if donating to political campaigns is legal. oh wait, it is.

you can donate as well And i am sure you have.

so you see the donors as the problem rather than government that allows the donors "influence".....so what's next, Lockheed Martin is responsible for war? I don't think so.

corporations are individuals in the eyes of the law. just as you are if you incorporate yourself and your employees.....just as your city probably is.

so you are essentially just applying animal farm logic, that some individuals should be more equal than others.

so you still don't see the Jewish connection? here you are blaming just the ultra rich.......just like the jew haters except they point out that the ultra rich are Jewish most of the time and you don't.

you have the same arguments they do.

at least I have the good sense to blame government, the enabler in all of this, and not a class of American citizens.

we outnumber them. just like we do police. when we actually have money to vote with then it will be a swift easy victory for us, until then we are playing their game under their rules and just all sore and frustrated at losing, to the point of you wanting to go all full tilt far left totalitarian in a "free" country.

 

[Fogdog]

I started wondering where @twostrokenut visits to get his weird ideas. Such as "Nazis were Marxists"

Of course nothing showed up in any sites that were based in factual history. But, yeah, some real kneejerks are writing about this.

Like this guy, Bruce Walker who wrote:
The Nazis Were Marxists
The Nazis were Marxists, no matter what our tainted academia and corrupt media wishes us to believe. Nazis, Bolsheviks, the Ku Klux Klan, Maoists, radical Islam and Facists -- all are on the Left, something that should be increasingly apparent to decent, honorable people in our times. The Big Lie which places Nazis on some mythical Far Right was created specifically so that there would be a bogeyman manacled on the wrists of those who wish us to move "too far" in the direction of Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_nazis_were_maxists.html#ixzz4rB1UUpWg
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

"Listen to me, I'm the only one who knows, no matter what every single informed person on the planet says, Nazis, Bolsheviks, KKK, Maoists, ISIS and Fascists are all the same left wing conspiracy to shackle heroic right wing leaders"

Yep, we should take two stroke more seriously. After all, Bruce Walker told us to.

Also the bedrock of conservative libertarian thought guides, the Mises Institute published this article:
https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian
Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian

Nevertheless, apart from Mises and his readers, practically no one thinks of Nazi Germany as a socialist state. It is far more common to believe that it represented a form of capitalism, which is what the Communists and all other Marxists have claimed.

The basis of the claim that Nazi Germany was capitalist was the fact that most industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands.

Not recommending anybody read the articles I posted links to. They are pretty much very long circular logic that starts with the false claim and ends up back there without any real substance to the article. The Mises claim was because Nazis instituted wage and price controls they were socialist/communist. Also factories were at the beck and call of Nazis during the war. Therefore Communist.

Government control = Communism. End of story.

Never mind that Nazi Germany was a totalitarian government dominated by an all powerful dictator and workers had no shared ownership whatsoever nor did they gain from war time profits made from their production.

As far as Mises ideology goes, this small section in their "who we are" sub-site says everything I need to know about right wing libertarians:

in the tradition of Ludwig von Mises and Murray N. Rothbard. These great thinkers developed praxeology, a deductive science of human action based on premises known with certainty to be true, and this is what we teach and advocate. Our scholarly work is founded in Misesian praxeology, and in self-conscious opposition to the mathematical modeling and hypothesis-testing that has created so much confusion in neoclassical economics.

In other words, "we establish a set of unproven axioms and our entire libertarian ideology rests on that. We despise science and math."

And so, as Bruce Walker said, "we believe Nazis are Communists" We believe this because our doctrine says it.

Love it. Thanks two stroke for helping me better understand why I so thoroughly reject what you say.

 

[Fogdog]

What policies supported by Bernie Sanders are right wing?

He's going to back off from this position too (prediction). He's showing his strategy and it all involves movement toward the center and policies compatible with moderate liberal and moderate conservative voters who are not happy with extremism in either party.

He's going squishy on health care
He's backing candidates who are anti choice
He's not even mentioning civil rights and racial issues
His "Our Revolution" reform movement is courting moderately conservative Republican candidates
Bernie's policies regarding racial issues do not exist. Social equality makes white people uncomfortable and that's the base he's courting.

He's kind of doing a Democratic version of Reagan's courting of Democratic party white moderate voters. Except Bernie is courting moderate conservatives. White people, mostly.

Campaign finance reform resonates well with these left and right moderates. I think he'll keep this as a centerpiece of his policies. But I think that's the only issue anybody can count on from Bernie right now.

Bernie never was a leftist. Leans left, sure. But best described as moderate fiscal liberal with socially conservative policies. Basically status quo. I've been watching his strongest supporters who post here move more and more to the right too. Not saying they are conservatives but they are moving rightward in rhetoric. I don't think they changed, just they no longer pose to be strongly liberal.

Please don't take this as criticism of Bernie. If he can get corporations, PACs, outsized voice of wealthy donors out of campaign finance it will be a great contribution. We can then work on other issues like soaking the rich to subsidize the education you mention. Maybe healthcare too, although this will be a sticking point with moderate conservatives.

I'll be glad to post links to information that I used to form this opinion. This is an opinion and I might change it with new information. I value your viewpoint and hope you reply back whether you disagree or agree.

 

[zeddd]

One is social transformation through the material dialectic, the other is arbitrary genocide and esoteric beliefs such as vril... mmm can see why they are so easily conflated

 

[Fogdog]

when you are done insulting me perhaps ask yourself if donating to political campaigns is legal. oh wait, it is.

you can donate as well And i am sure you have.

so you see the donors as the problem rather than government that allows the donors "influence".....so what's next, Lockheed Martin is responsible for war? I don't think so.

corporations are individuals in the eyes of the law. just as you are if you incorporate yourself and your employees.....just as your city probably is.

so you are essentially just applying animal farm logic, that some individuals should be more equal than others.

so you still don't see the Jewish connection? here you are blaming just the ultra rich.......just like the jew haters except they point out that the ultra rich are Jewish most of the time and you don't.

you have the same arguments they do.

at least I have the good sense to blame government, the enabler in all of this, and not a class of American citizens.

we outnumber them. just like we do police. when we actually have money to vote with then it will be a swift easy victory for us, until then we are playing their game under their rules and just all sore and frustrated at losing, to the point of you wanting to go all full tilt far left totalitarian in a "free" country.

Corporations aren't people. They aren't even animals. Or living creatures. What a weird idea you subscribe to.

 

[ttystikk]

What policies supported by Bernie Sanders are right wing?

The mislabeled ones.

These are the same short bus riders who keep calling the Nazi Party a socialist organization.

 

[twostrokenut]

I started wondering where @twostrokenut visits to get his weird ideas. Such as "Nazis were Marxists"

Of course nothing showed up in any sites that were based in factual history. But, yeah, some real kneejerks are writing about this.

Like this guy, Bruce Walker who wrote:
The Nazis Were Marxists
The Nazis were Marxists, no matter what our tainted academia and corrupt media wishes us to believe. Nazis, Bolsheviks, the Ku Klux Klan, Maoists, radical Islam and Facists -- all are on the Left, something that should be increasingly apparent to decent, honorable people in our times. The Big Lie which places Nazis on some mythical Far Right was created specifically so that there would be a bogeyman manacled on the wrists of those who wish us to move "too far" in the direction of Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_nazis_were_maxists.html#ixzz4rB1UUpWg
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

"Listen to me, I'm the only one who knows, no matter what every single informed person on the planet says, Nazis, Bolsheviks, KKK, Maoists, ISIS and Fascists are all the same left wing conspiracy to shackle heroic right wing leaders"

Yep, we should take two stroke more seriously. After all, Bruce Walker told us to.

Also the bedrock of conservative libertarian thought guides, the Mises Institute published this article:
https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian
Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian

Nevertheless, apart from Mises and his readers, practically no one thinks of Nazi Germany as a socialist state. It is far more common to believe that it represented a form of capitalism, which is what the Communists and all other Marxists have claimed.

The basis of the claim that Nazi Germany was capitalist was the fact that most industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands.

Not recommending anybody read the articles I posted links to. They are pretty much very long circular logic that starts with the false claim and ends up back there without any real substance to the article. The Mises claim was because Nazis instituted wage and price controls they were socialist/communist. Also factories were at the beck and call of Nazis during the war. Therefore Communist.

Government control = Communism. End of story.

Never mind that Nazi Germany was a totalitarian government dominated by an all powerful dictator and workers had no shared ownership whatsoever nor did they gain from war time profits made from their production.

As far as Mises ideology goes, this small section in their "who we are" sub-site says everything I need to know about right wing libertarians:

in the tradition of Ludwig von Mises and Murray N. Rothbard. These great thinkers developed praxeology, a deductive science of human action based on premises known with certainty to be true, and this is what we teach and advocate. Our scholarly work is founded in Misesian praxeology, and in self-conscious opposition to the mathematical modeling and hypothesis-testing that has created so much confusion in neoclassical economics.

In other words, "we establish a set of unproven axioms and our entire libertarian ideology rests on that. We despise science and math."

And so, as Bruce Walker said, "we believe Nazis are Communists" We believe this because our doctrine says it.

Love it. Thanks two stroke for helping me better understand why I so thoroughly reject what you say.

never heard of Bruce walker but misis can explain tulips for you, you seem like you need to know the cause of the mania.