Root Development vs Plant Growth

[Pullin' weeds]

To super-charge your plants root system, you might look at adding Mycorrhizae.

It's a natural fungus that work sybiotically (sp?) with the host plant. Basically the fungi spread through the root system, spreading the little hairs through the soil, effectively increasing the surface area by a ton. The fungi break down the nutrients in the soil into a more usable form and pass it on tho the host plant. Feed the microlife, they in turn feed the plant.

I've just started using it a little while ago, but all my plants are pretty happy!

 

[000420]

im a one finger typer jorges grow bible page 175 pot can efficiently process 16 to 18 hours of light after which it has deminishing returns,also a study in hight times but thats 80 mags i read so to find the story would take a weekend.but it doesnt really matter its about preferance in the end.

get his newest book....Jorge also now agrees that 24 hours grows plants faster........he use to think there was a diminishing return...but now he knows that it isn't so.

 

[trapper]

get his newest book....Jorge also now agrees that 24 hours grows plants faster........he use to think there was a diminishing return...but now he knows that it isn't so.

ya i saw that,ive seen alot of revisions on alot of stuff from rosenthal and jorge,actually hightimes has every once in a while were rosenthal is called on things by growers and changes his first assesment,i know people that disregard most of the information and just grow plants like they allways have and there results speak for them selves, horticulture is a billion dollar industry,and they want to captilize on the money thats out there,my uncle who has been growing for 45 years tells me the only thing benificial to him was learning to seperate the males from the garden,other then that hes been doing the same stuff and has never bought the high priced nutes,he is quite happy spending 5 dollars on some nutes and useing compost.mind you he knew about reflective properties through photogrophy.there is alot of iformation out there and alot of mis information,no one has put in the big bucks to do extensive trials,we all chase the next best thing in growing,like it says in scripture nothing is new under the sun its all been done before.i bet you the incas grew plants with guano 3000 years ago that would make us drool.i can honestly say since i started this hobby for health reasons,ive read about 2000 hours on growing,im trying to keep it simple and just enjoy the fruits of my labour.rosenthall even said in a 2001 ht article that 24 hours was a waste compared to 18/6.he apparently has changesd his views.jorge states in the new bible that a 1000 does very well for a 6x6 room page 177,alot of growers would say from personal experience this is not correct.as well he states that t8,s give off a 100 lumens per watt,ive never seen that,but it may well be true,i thought that the 96 lumens per watt was the highest achieved useing the 54 watt t5 ho,but maybe the t8 is more efficient,but im rambling,so much to learn and so much to disregard.thats why i like this site,seeing what growers are useing,and how they have improved on things,it is an exchange of free information,i try to answer questions if i believe i can help,but if im wrong im uselly corrected by an experienced grower,and thats what its all about..

 

[000420]

ya i saw that,ive seen alot of revisions on alot of stuff from rosenthal and jorge,actually hightimes has every once in a while were rosenthal is called on things by growers and changes his first assesment,i know people that disregard most of the information and just grow plants like they allways have and there results speak for them selves, horticulture is a billion dollar industry,and they want to captilize on the money thats out there,my uncle who has been growing for 45 years tells me the only thing benificial to him was learning to seperate the males from the garden,other then that hes been doing the same stuff and has never bought the high priced nutes,he is quite happy spending 5 dollars on some nutes and useing compost.mind you he knew about reflective properties through photogrophy.there is alot of iformation out there and alot of mis information,no one has put in the big bucks to do extensive trials,we all chase the next best thing in growing,like it says in scripture nothing is new under the sun its all been done before.i bet you the incas grew plants with guano 3000 years ago that would make us drool.i can honestly say since i started this hobby for health reasons,ive read about 2000 hours on growing,im trying to keep it simple and just enjoy the fruits of my labour.rosenthall even said in a 2001 ht article that 24 hours was a waste compared to 18/6.he apparently has changesd his views.jorge states in the new bible that a 1000 does very well for a 6x6 room page 177,alot of growers would say from personal experience this is not correct.as well he states that t8,s give off a 100 lumens per watt,ive never seen that,but it may well be true,i thought that the 96 lumens per watt was the highest achieved useing the 54 watt t5 ho,but maybe the t8 is more efficient,but im rambling,so much to learn and so much to disregard.thats why i like this site,seeing what growers are useing,and how they have improved on things,it is an exchange of free information,i try to answer questions if i believe i can help,but if im wrong im uselly corrected by an experienced grower,and thats what its all about..

I agree there is a lot of hype out there..I've used many different fertilizers but I've come to use the stuff I started with after getting blinded by the hype I snapped back into reality....I get the same yields and the quality is better...using my good old Alaska fish emulsion and seaweed for veg and bat guano in bloom, I also use worm casting and molasses......works best for me and it;s cheap as hell...

 

[trapper]

I agree there is a lot of hype out there..I've used many different fertilizers but I've come to use the stuff I started with after getting blinded by the hype I snapped back into reality....I get the same yields and the quality is better...using my good old Alaska fish emulsion and seaweed for veg and bat guano in bloom, I also use worm casting and molasses......works best for me and it;s cheap as hell...

i have an outdoor that gets shultz 10 54 10(price 3.99)and mollases,i have one that get gh three parts plus carboload and guano,there is no differance in growth,but maybe the differance will be in potency.im tempted by all the advertisements,about beast buds and so forth,and i have put the money in,i find that growing is a great hobby and theraputic,and i am very limited by health,so im home alot,but the hype of this gram per watt i find misleading,and is desighned for people to spend money on products,im not saying a gram per watt is not achievable,it is,ive just never personally met any one who has and ive known quite a few who also knew quite a few,and the one who claims to have has also cought a 200 pound sturgeon fish.very few people can have the perfect growing inviroment indoors,it is very expensive.

 

[skunkushybrid]

A gram per watt is meant for the SOG systems. As they are small plants they get more light, and fatter, tighter colas. A gram per watt is achievable, is in fact the standard that all sog growers set themselves.

I'll update this thread with pic's today of my experiment. 15 days in 0.5litre containers. Usually, by now these would be in 3 litre containers and gone into flower 3 days ago. Whereby I'd expect at least an oz per plant.

These gus are in a container a 6th of the size. Yet the plants are the same size as they would be in a 3litre.

Roots are merely a mechanism for the plant to uptake nutes... concentrating on root development as indoor growers, I feel, is a waste of time. For a start we need to spend money on root eaters to get rid of the roots... why spend time developing roots? This time would be best served by encouraging plant growth. Which we can do by decreasing our pot sizes and giving the plants as much light as we can.

This is still an experiment, so it'd be best to wait and see how mine turn out. fdd' is already ahead of me... but he's an outdoor grower, so he doesn't count.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Here's the pic's at 15 days... I've checked the bottom of the pots and they are fine. These plants are now slightly over 12" in height. The third pic' I hope shows a slight redding/purpling to the leaf stems.

These are clones, and despite them being only 13 days old (at the time) I gave them the equivalent to a 4week veg' feed if I were starting from seed. Today, at just day 15, by the redding/purpling leaf stems I can see that they need more nutes. So today, I'm going to give these 15 day old clone plants the equivalent to a 5 week veg' feed for seed plants.

I don't want these guys to be undernuted when they go into flower... that way i can start with the flowering nutes right away. Also, due to the smaller pot size, I can afford more veg' time. I haven't got much height space in the flowering area, and this needs to be an important consideration. If the plants grow too big, I'm going to lose out on yield through burns and poor ventilation.

I may well end up just concentrating on a certain group of plants... due to space etc, the rest will most likely be left in the shadows somewhere.

 

[skunkushybrid]

I'm also slightly worried about the feed schedule during flower... watering from the top is going to be an extremely frequent affair in these tiny pots. I could be watering 3 times a day... maybe even more.

I'll see... I have the tools, should I decide to change mid-flower, to water from the bottom instead.

 

[natmoon]

I'm also slightly worried about the feed schedule during flower... watering from the top is going to be an extremely frequent affair in these tiny pots. I could be watering 3 times a day... maybe even more.

I'll see... I have the tools, should I decide to change mid-flower, to water from the bottom instead.

Tighter root balls equal tighter buds.
Make sure your water is well oxygenated and you'll be fine with small pots.
If watering is a problem try a drip system,anyway i hope it works out for you and i agree with you that indoor growing is not at all root dependent especially when you wish to keep the plants short and fat.

The more energy the plant puts into growing roots the less energy it puts into growing its cola,small tight efficient root balls are the best for indoors imo anyway you just have to watch that the roots get enough oxygen

 

[skunkushybrid]

Tighter root balls equal tighter buds.

I've found this to be more a case of genetics...

I'm not doing a small grow... I'm doing a normal grow in small pots.

I can understand that I may not have explained this properly enough...

It is my belief that roots are merely a mechanism for the plant to uptake nutrients. Their role stops there. That's it.

If it were the case that plants emulate their root systems then my plants wouldn't look anything like they do at the moment.

 

[skunkushybrid]

I've decided to give them a week 7 feed... this into 9litres of water:

Sensi Grow A, 20ml
Sensi Grow B, 20ml
MET Grow, 21.5ml
Fulvic Acid, 12ml
B52, 40ml
Barricade, 2ml
Piranha, 4.0g
Cannazym, 22.5ml
Voodoo juice, 21ml

 

[nongreenthumb]

These are plants grown solely in a 4" cube, it was quite an early shot and I didn't take any more pics before i chopped them down but the buds were sure tight enough, they required watering more often but i still got a good amount of tight bud.

 

[skunkushybrid]

These are plants grown solely in a 4" cube, it was quite an early shot and I didn't take any more pics before i chopped them down but the buds were sure tight enough, they required watering more often but i still got a good amount of tight bud.

This is because of the extra light available to the smaller plants. The whole plant can be bathed in light. LIGHT is what produces tighter nugs, alongside a plants genetics...

I just honestly believe that roots are not worth worrying about. A plant will get so big... but do the roots need to be big as well? I will find out (to a degree) within this thread soon enough.

 

[natmoon]

Plants in huge containers and high levels of light whatever their genetics will produce tall stretched plants with fluffy buds down the stem and only hard dense nugs at the tops.

Plants in small containers with low levels of light will produce hard buds all the way down the stem whatever their genetics.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Plants in huge containers and high levels of light whatever their genetics will produce tall stretched plants with fluffy buds down the stem and only hard dense nugs at the tops.


Yeah, yeah... whatever mate. Why? Explain to me how a tighter root ball produces tighter nugs... are you saying that the plant is in tune with its root system to such a degree where it can recognise if its roots are tight enough so that it can develop tighter nugs?

No, genetics and light are the key factors in determining bud tightness.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Do you see that tree in my avatar? It is planted in the ground... this means that it has all the room in the world to spread out it's root system... does this mean it's nugs will grow loose?

Of course not. It has enough light, and its genetics shall determine the tightness of the buds. Rootball, shmootball.

 

[natmoon]

I have already explained myself you just dont understand because your relatively new to growing.

Having 6000 posts and being a moderator doesn't mean you know everything.
Any good experienced gardener knows that root shapes,binds and sizes will affect plant shape and size,you however as usual offensively know better than the rest of the planet.

Fdds plant has developed deep tap roots and is outdoors with a full term of vegative light and a long term of flowering cycle in real sunlight.

If you go through fdds other posts about his roots you will see that he has in fact naturally developed clumped root systems which will also help to give him tight nugs even on huge plants.

Anyway its a shame your always so defensive and that your desire to be always right about everything from God and the universe to weed has taken you over.

I tested this theory probably when you were in the infant school but anyway cya and best of luck

 

[skunkushybrid]

I have already explained myself you just dont understand because your relatively new to growing.

Having 6000 posts and being a moderator doesn't mean you know everything.
Any good experienced gardener knows that root shapes,binds and sizes will affect plant shape and size,you however as usual offensively know better than the rest of the planet.

Fdds plant has developed deep tap roots and is outdoors with a full term of vegative light and a long term of flowering cycle in real sunlight.

If you go through fdds other posts about his roots you will see that he has in fact naturally developed clumped root systems which will also help to give him tight nugs even on huge plants.

Anyway its a shame your always so defensive and that your desire to be always right about everything from God and the universe to weed has taken you over.

I tested this theory probably when you were in the infant school but anyway cya and best of luck

1. Did you actually read the part where I said this was an experiment? The point of an experiment is not knowing the outcome. Therefore, how could i possibly be claiming to know more than the rest of the planet? Your choice of words belittle your self-professed wisdom.

2. Explain this long flowering cycle to me? Once a plant enters flowering this is genetic.

3. Impart this to me also? He's naturally developed, clumped root systems? This is exactly what my experiment is doing. It is intended to prove that a large plant does not need an equally large pot... which will shoot away the theory that plants actually need an extensive root system.

4. Pointless statement really... can we stick to the point, please.

5. And yet another pointless statement... if I didn't know better I'd say you were still smarting from when you got that newbie question wrong. Where was your experience then, old man?

 

[natmoon]

1. Did you actually read the part where I said this was an experiment? The point of an experiment is not knowing the outcome. Therefore, how could i possibly be claiming to know more than the rest of the planet? Your choice of words belittle your self-professed wisdom.

2. Explain this long flowering cycle to me? Once a plant enters flowering this is genetic.

3. Impart this to me also? He's naturally developed, clumped root systems? This is exactly what my experiment is doing. It is intended to prove that a large plant does not need an equally large pot... which will shoot away the theory that plants actually need an extensive root system.

4. Pointless statement really... can we stick to the point, please.

5. And yet another pointless statement... if I didn't know better I'd say you were still smarting from when you got that newbie question wrong. Where was your experience then, old man?

Its ok dude you are the man

 

[skunkushybrid]

Having 6000 posts and being a moderator doesn't mean you know everything. Any good experienced gardener knows that root shapes,binds and sizes will affect plant shape and size,you however as usual offensively know better than the rest of the planet.

Explain that to me also... where was I offensive? I didn't once offend you... you have issues with me... I can see that. Not like I'm bothered... I like the attention.

You always read anger into my posts... you remind me a little of roseman. You have a lot of pent up aggression in there... honestly nat' you need to chill the fook out.