It's all about knowing who your friends are...

CrackerJax

New Member
I'm starting to wonder who are the allies of the USA. The familiar list comes to mind....and usually the first one is Britain. We have fought TWO world wars at their side. We have fought each other and we have spilled blood together against corrupted nations. We have a history intertwined.

So the Obama pattern of backhanding Britain is troubling to me. I have commented on this before, and today I read this editorial, and prompted me to thread it. The pattern is clear, and as the author states in the headline... if Britain isn't an ally, who is? Have we fallen that far ... so quickly?

Here's the piece ... he makes some great observations.

==========================================================

If Britain's Not An Ally, Then U.S. Has None

By VICTOR DAVIS HANSONPosted 03/05/2010 06:47 PM ET



Almost 30 years after losing a war over the Falkland Islands, Argentina is once again warning Britain that it still wants back what it calls the Malvinas.
Argentina is now angry over a British company's oil exploration off the windswept islands in what it considers its own South Atlantic backyard.
Although nominally democratic, the unpopular Kirchner government in Buenos Aires has claimed that the sparsely settled islands are a symbolic matter of Spanish-speaking pride throughout Latin America — and is theirs because the islands once belonged to Spain in the 19th century.
In response to all this, the Obama administration announced that it would remain neutral.
Aside from the fact that the Falkland Islanders wish to remain British, and our prior support for the Thatcher British government during the 1982 war, there are lots of reasons why our neutrality here is a bad idea.
Britain is a longstanding NATO member. It has bled side by side with America in two World Wars, Korea and two conflicts in Iraq, as well as presently in Afghanistan.
And the United Kingdom still shares close linguistic, cultural and historical affinities with the United States.
We do not support all the British do; nor do they always support us. But our centuries-old friendship should earn Britain special support in its disputes, even in the relatively unimportant Falklands mess. If Britain is not considered an ally, then America no longer has real allies.
And perhaps that is the point, after all. The Obama administration does not wish to see the world so divided between allies and the rest.
The president rather abruptly canceled missile defense with the allied Czech Republic and Poland in order to woo the antagonistic Russians.
Dictatorial Syria and the anti-Western Palestinians gain as much American outreach as does pro-American and democratic Israel.
Obama seems more eager to mollify Venezuela's Hugo Chavez than to strengthen our alliance with a democratic and pro-American Uribe government in neighboring Colombia.
The list goes on.
Western Naivete
Meanwhile, Obama has symbolically tried to downsize the profile of the U.S. by downplaying the idea of an "exceptional" America, bowing to foreign leaders and apologizing for supposed past American sins.
All that raises the question of what exactly are the advantages these days of being a friend of the U.S., when neutrals and enemies alike garner as much of our sympathies?
We have seen such naive attitudes before in the West. After the horrific carnage of the First World War, utopians wrongly swore that rival European alliances had alone caused the war, and so created the League of Nations.
Enlightened world citizens would do better legislating peace than prior nationalist politicians who crudely had once sought security through balancing power and forging alliances. Hitler and the far more lethal Second World War followed instead.
After 1945, a much wiser United States talked grandly about the new United Nations, but in reality its own alliances kept much of Europe and Asia free from an aggressive Soviet Union.
Creating Enemies
Today there are many Falkland-like hot spots throughout the world. Yet the U.S., not the International Court at The Hague, keeps North Korea from attacking our ally South Korea. The power of America, not the international community, persuades China not to squeeze our friend Taiwan. Europe is safe because of an American-led NATO — not due to any concern from the United Nations Commission on Human Rights.
In other words, America and its alliances keep friends safe. And the world is more peaceful and prosperous than at any time in history because dozens of nations count on our support and share our values.
So until human nature changes, there are always going to be some nations that are more aggressive than others, seeking to take what they can by force.
Groups of like-minded others will resist them both for principle and their own self-protection. And the majority of "neutral" countries will keep quiet, waiting to see who proves the stronger — and then opportunistically joining the eventual winner.
An idealistic America may now decide that it does not want or need special allies like Britain.
But that diffidence will eventually mean we have more enemies than ever — as the watching world makes the necessary adjustments and joins those who unabashedly promise them support and protection.
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
that's right man, they have that health care system. you know, that socialist, government run miserable health care system that under no circumstances deserves defending.

the first thing I do when I see one of these bama bashing right wing nut jobs post an article is check out the original author.

"Victor Davis Hanson (born 1953 in Fowler, California) is a military historian, columnist, political essayist and former classics professor, notable as a scholar of ancient warfare. He has been a commentator on modern warfare and contemporary politics for National Review and other media outlets, and was a strong supporter of the policies of US President George W. Bush. He was for many years a professor of classics at Cal State University, Fresno, and is currently the Martin and Illie Anderson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution"

credibility = 0
 
C

chitownsmoking

Guest
cj i just want you to know im your friend...... lol
 

dukeofbaja

New Member
CJ, you are my frienemy. Which is sometimes better to have than a friend or enemy.

But isn't Israel our ally? This is not meant to be smart ass, I seriously have little ideas about these types of things (which is why I rarely post in these types of discussions)
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I'm not here to debate the issue really. I am interested in how we seem to be treating our OLDEST and most LOYAL ally ... Brittania.

It's a disturbing pattern. It makes everyone else suspect OUR loyalty towards our friends. This can have real consequences...none of them good.
 

laughingduck

Well-Known Member
I thought Obama was gonna get us loved by the world, I think they all really hate us now. Taliban is warming up to us though LMAO!
 

CrackerJax

New Member
That was the bill of goods sold. It's turned out to be the exact opposite. Obama is diminishing us globally.
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
that's right man, they have that health care system. you know, that socialist, government run miserable health care system that under no circumstances deserves defending.

the first thing I do when I see one of these bama bashing right wing nut jobs post an article is check out the original author.

"Victor Davis Hanson (born 1953 in Fowler, California) is a military historian, columnist, political essayist and former classics professor, notable as a scholar of ancient warfare. He has been a commentator on modern warfare and contemporary politics for National Review and other media outlets, and was a strong supporter of the policies of US President George W. Bush. He was for many years a professor of classics at Cal State University, Fresno, and is currently the Martin and Illie Anderson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution"

credibility = 0
Ding, ding, ding - we have a winner. That is exactly what you should do; skip the man's entire argument and go straight into a personal attack. Any chance you are a Progressive?

Maybe this link will help you learn how to think.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
actually, checking the author out is the first thing anyone should do before reading a book or novel. it is not unusual for this information to be very relevant to the text, in terms of context and others. if the author's background give the author zero credibility to a certain audience, it's just a part of the literary and scholastic process that is getting published.


now, if you would know the history of the british-argentinian war, you wouldn't be so supportive. it was a reaction to american imperialism in the past century. the only reason it was fought was to give britain strategic advantages, with no real thought as to the damage the war did to argentina, any long-term effects this war might have had on the population, nor was it fought to strengthen the US-Britain relationship. It is exactly the opposite. This was an attempt by britain to undermine American superiority, and if the government was supporting this action at the time, it just shows how ignorant the US government can be.

as for him talking about Obama back-handing Britain and loosing our allies,

he's just conflabulating an argument. it's not based on any real facts.

The Poland and Chekia missile defense was abandoned because of the possibility of Russia reacting by shaking up the supply of natural gas and other goods. They weren't wooing the Russians, the economies of Poland and Checkia coudln't afford to have russia suddendly cut off gas supplies, and they were threatened with that, if this missile shield went into place. unlike the author is implying, not putting it up was the CORRECT choice.

Palestinians are not "anti-western" as this author so graciously tries to "jam down my throat". In fact, the ONLY thing palestinians want is international recognition as a country. They want a small country, with part of Jerusalem as it's capital, and for Israel to stop expanding beyond what it was supposed to. Israel is the aggressor nation in this case, more than a million palestinians have died because of Israel's inhumane, and despicable actions. again, in this case, the Israeli's have broken the UN contract that created them, have expanded into foreign territory, carried out unprovoked attacks, and have practiced the most visible form of genocide in recent history. all with the US standing by proudly at the cruelty and abuse.

Hugo chavez is one of the most important figures in politics right now. He is one of the MOST popular world leaders. PERIOD. everybody listens to what he says. He does not take lightly to corruption and abuse of power. A lot of americans don't really know how violent and unstable venezuela used to be. and Pro-US Uribe is a joke. URIBE is getting rich off the US WASTING BILLIONS on a failed drug war that is helping economically develop his country, with minimal investment by his own people or government. Unlike what many americans, including that author think, Uribe is NOT pro-US, he is ANTI-Chavez. and guess what happened to all major drug cartels that were operating in Venezuela after chavez got into power?? they got the FUCK out of there because chavez would lock them up and throw away the key. Uribe is a corrupt motherfucker, and it is known he went to bed with drug dealers in the past, it shoudln't be much surprise he is doing it now, while reading speeches that he is helping the uS with the drug problem.... he is a hypocrite, a criminal, and doesn't deserve any ANY support.

open your EYES and stop reading bullshit CJ, it will do you very VERY VERYY good.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
That's exactly arse backwards RED. Why am I not surprised.

I accept that all major outlet journalists (as opposed to bloggers) have enough talent for news corps to keep them on.
What their particular political leanings are irrelevant to me.
I look at the CONTENT, and then cross check it and expand outwards from there.
If Al Gore said something valid, I would instantly RECOGNIZE it.

Your methodology leads to failed thinking and failed outcomes.
 

nuera59

Well-Known Member
As an Englishman, Chavez can kiss my arse, the falklands are ours and it will stay ours, and so is gibralter.
I would say you want it! try and take it, we will just give you another spanking. fools.
And we followed the Us into Iraq and afghanistan because we are old allies, it works both ways.
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
Ding, ding, ding - we have a winner. That is exactly what you should do; skip the man's entire argument and go straight into a personal attack. Any chance you are a Progressive?

Maybe this link will help you learn how to think.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
ahahaha!!!! don't tell me how to post ricky. as well as interesting discussions, RIU is a bit of a release for me. and my friend, that post was relieving!
 

edwardtheclean

Well-Known Member
no kidding, i think most of us are going to believe what we want to believe, and think how we want, my brother and i was raised the exact same way, went thru the same shit, but now we are adults and have a different opinion on alot of things, its weird, i think we take our differences the wrong way, doesnt it seem like we all know what the problem with America is but we just dont do anything about it,


its just like we all know that the healthcare system is messed up and been this way for a while, we all know that, but just because a dem wants to change it a repub wants to keep it the same, instead of getting together and fixing the real problems we would rather argue about who is right and wrong
 

max420thc

Well-Known Member
the REAL problem are the tyrants that run this country..incase you havnt noticed they have spent 12 trillion dollars last year.
obama has given the back of his hand repeatedly to the UK poland got screwed so did the checks .isreal has been stabbed in the back repeatedly .
georgia we stabbed in the back under bush.
yea lets come together with the dems and spend trillions of dollars to fix a system 85% of the population is happy with.with money we dont have and cant afford to pay back.
progressives remind me of a idiot with a credit card that cant afford to pay it back..cept its our credit card.
next year most of these clowns will be tarred and feathered and ran out on a rail.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
I stand with Great Britain, and Israel, and Canada for that matter. And France, Germany, Japan, Australia, New Zealand... you get the idea.

Their domestic policies are their business, not mine. If Britons want cradle-to-grave social welfare, bully for them. It does not affect me whatsoever.

The Community Organizer will not be in office forever. He will go the way of Carter very soon.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
As an Englishman, Chavez can kiss my arse, the falklands are ours and it will stay ours, and so is gibralter.
I would say you want it! try and take it, we will just give you another spanking. fools.
And we followed the Us into Iraq and afghanistan because we are old allies, it works both ways.
I agree with you.... but unfortunately.... we have knuckleheads in charge at the moment. No two countries so far apart have a better relationship and shared commonality as with the USA and Great Britain.
This is another embarrassment for us to bear I'm afraid. Obama aside, we are with you, and if necessary, we will make Obama bow. You have my word on that. What an embarrassment.

I stand with Great Britain, and Israel, and Canada for that matter. And France, Germany, Japan, Australia, New Zealand... you get the idea.

Their domestic policies are their business, not mine. If Britons want cradle-to-grave social welfare, bully for them. It does not affect me whatsoever.

The Community Organizer will not be in office forever. He will go the way of Carter very soon.
Well put JO..... like the article says... if GB isn't an ally.... who is?
Wasn't that the mantra about Bush? He was pissing Europe off?

Bush ENGAGED Europe. Bush paid attention to them, whatever his faults, he was engaged.
Now? I think frankly after a year.... Europe is in shock.

Now I see Hillary has opined that GB needs to take it to the UN? What on earth are they smoking in DC?

Hillary will NEVER be President..... and I think she knows it now....... or she should.
 

westhamm1132

Active Member
Isnt the British commies?
no britton is directly im the middle off capitalisum and communisum the best place to be
britton is the omly true democracy on earth where we can do what you want if it dont affect others even the police just joak and take away your drugs if they catch you with them.

our health care system is very good but its easy to bitch about when people dont need them but when poor people get hert or severly ill they wil alwase get expert treatment no matter who they are no questions asked. same carnt be said for america.

britton has backed the u.s.a in every war its had science nam and would be the ONLY contery to back it if the russians attack. we have alrady lost many men for the usa and wont help you if you dont help us.

usa needs britton more than we need them we have good relashions with most of europe and will alwayse have france and germanys help if attact. who have the usa got? dont get me wrong tho usa is a very good ally to have.:bigjoint:
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Heh, there's the rub.... if Britain were commies, Obama would be backing them!!!

Look, we definitely have a complete loser in the White House, and we do apologize Westhamm.

We will rectify the situation, I promise. The people understand the relationship between the USA and GB, even if Obama does not. He'll be gone soon ... promise.
 
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