The "OFFICIAL" cast your VOTE on PROP 19 thread

[The Ruiner]

Where the fuck did this thing about it not mentioning taxes come in? Really people? what the fuck? READ THE FUCKING BILL

Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees

(a) Any ordinance, regulation or other act adopted pursuant to section 11301 may include imposition of appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes, benefit assessments, or fees, on any activity authorized pursuant to such enactment, in order to permit the local government to raise revenue, or to recoup any direct or indirect costs associated with the authorized activity, or the permitting or licensing scheme, including without limitation: administration; applications and issuance of licenses or permits; inspection of licensed premises and other enforcement of ordinances adopted under section 11301, including enforcement against unauthorized activities.
(b) Any licensed premises shall be responsible for paying all federal, state and local taxes, fees, fines, penalties or other financial responsibility imposed on all or similarly situated businesses, facilities or premises, including without limitation income taxes, business taxes, license fees, and property taxes, without regard to or identification of the business or items or services sold

Who the fuck comes up with "it doesnt say anything about taxes"? It has a whole fucking section telling you that THERE WILL BE TAXES... Are all of you "yes" people too fucking high to think clearly anymore?

 

[The Ruiner]

It's funny how I can find things in this bill that none of the supporters can...really convenient.

 

[Hayduke]

All that and not one single insult!!!! (being to fucking high, on a cannabis board, is not an insult)

 

[Dan Kone]

Where the fuck did this thing about it not mentioning taxes come in? Really people? what the fuck? READ THE FUCKING BILL

Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees

(a) Any ordinance, regulation or other act adopted pursuant to section 11301 may include imposition of appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes, benefit assessments, or fees, on any activity authorized pursuant to such enactment, in order to permit the local government to raise revenue, or to recoup any direct or indirect costs associated with the authorized activity, or the permitting or licensing scheme, including without limitation: administration; applications and issuance of licenses or permits; inspection of licensed premises and other enforcement of ordinances adopted under section 11301, including enforcement against unauthorized activities.
(b) Any licensed premises shall be responsible for paying all federal, state and local taxes, fees, fines, penalties or other financial responsibility imposed on all or similarly situated businesses, facilities or premises, including without limitation income taxes, business taxes, license fees, and property taxes, without regard to or identification of the business or items or services sold

Who the fuck comes up with "it doesnt say anything about taxes"? It has a whole fucking section telling you that THERE WILL BE TAXES... Are all of you "yes" people too fucking high to think clearly anymore?

I never said it didn't say anything about taxes. I said the bill adds no specific tax to cannabis and since taxing cannabis is legal without prop 19, prop 19 does not tax cannabis!

Understand?

 

[UncleBuck]

That's not a lie, because ITS IN THE FUCKING BILL, why dont you read it? Seriously, why the fuck don't you actually read this piece of shit? You are so for it, and yet you understand nothing about it... so fucking sad. Stop being a goddamn cheerleader.

From the text of the bill...

1. "Personal consumption" shall not include, and nothing in this Act shall permit cannabis:

1. 1. possession for sale regardless of amount, except by a person who is licensed or permitted to do so under the terms of an ordinance adopted pursuant to section 11301;

I highly suggest you read Section 3: Lawful Activities, and stop supporting something you don't understand.

nice try, silly. you just argued something completely different than what you originally argued. unfortunately for you, i am able to read!

here is what you said originally:

19 intends to make mostly everyone a consumer, or a criminal (yes, it will be a crime to possess weed from an unsanctioned source, which it isn't now).

your comeback was to quote this part:

possession for sale regardless of amount, except by a person who is licensed or permitted to do so under the terms of an ordinance adopted pursuant to section 11301;

so it turns out you can POSSESS any weed you want, but you can't set up a storefront and SELL any weed you want. i think that makes sense, as i don't want to buy mite infested chemical shit weed with cat hair in it.

again, learn to argue honestly. you do yourself a discredit by lying, making shit up as you go and justifying it however you think you can get away with it.

 

[Dan Kone]

so it turns out you can POSSESS any weed you want, but you can't set up a storefront and SELL any weed you want.

Unless of course you want to set up a corporation and then you can sell all the weed you want legally.

For some reason anything less than being allowed to sell bud to minors without any permits is somehow taking away our freedom according to some people.....

 

[UncleBuck]

It's funny how I can make up things in this bill that none of the supporters can...really convenient.

i fixed it for you

 

[UncleBuck]

Unless of course you want to set up a corporation and then you can sell all the weed you want legally.

well, kinda. you could sell all the weed you want, but it would have to be from a sanctioned source, as the ruiner points out. he has a point, just not the one he was trying to make

 

[The Ruiner]

Okay... here's another part of the bill telling you, the informed voter, that you cannot possess cannabis from "unlawful" sources...

Notwithstanding any other provision of state or local law, a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize, with conditions, the following:

prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;


Wow...I am just making everything up...

And, as far as "prop 19 doesn't directly tax cannabis" that is a really hallow arguement - that text is from the bill, directly stating that if passed "may include imposition" of a fuck-ton of taxes from everyone and their mother involved in state and local government. Now, given that our state is broke as fuck, and supporters of the bill themselves have been out in the media talking about "how much revenue" this could bring to california via taxation, I don't find it such a stretch to say that THERE WILL BE TAXES. If you want to mantain a position based off of absurd technicalities that's your deal, but at least acknowledge that your own team of supporters on this one has basically thrown your arguement out the window...months ago.

And yes, all the points I was "trying" to make are pretty damn clear, it would help if the people debating this bill had the same reference point, like everyone has read the bill.

 

[UncleBuck]

Notwithstanding any other provision of state or local law, a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize, with conditions, the following:

prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;

so you can grow your own or buy from a dispensary?

:yawn:

nothing new here.

 

[The Ruiner]

...that is monopolization. It is forcing people (that don't grow) to buy from dispensaries. Shouldn't people have the choice of buying their weed from who they want? Not who they are forced to? That's where "shutting the door" comes into play. Do you cultivate your own in a 5x5 space? If not, that will be illegal (which, if you are a MMJ patient it is not). Why don't you show your real support by showing the rest of the growers your bad-ass 5x5 space? That, hey it's not so bad that 19 just took away all of the MMJ patients' rights, we still have 5x5 and McWeed's. And, I am curious, did you support 215 and SB 420?

I wonder as to why you are so comfortable with prop19...either you have a shit ton of money, don't grow or smoke, or you don't live in CA and don't care what happens. All this is my conjecture, of course.

 

[UncleBuck]

...that is monopolization..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#Characteristics

In a monopoly there is one seller of the monopolised good who produces all the output.Therefore, the whole market is being served by a single firm, and for practical purposes, the firm is the same as the industry.

i saved you the time of looking up what a monopoly actually is, as you clearly don't know what one is or you are arguing dishonestly (again).

if you want, you can get a license and sell your product to a dispensary. many dispensaries will compete with one another. you can also grow it yourself. how that qualifies as a monopoly is beyond me.

hey it's not so bad that 19 just took away all of the MMJ patients' rights

as with your other false claims, i will ask you where in the bill it says patients will lose their rights....

 

[Scuba]

so you can grow your own or buy from a dispensary?

:yawn:

nothing new here.

then how do you prove YOU grew it? from a dispensary it gives you a bag or a bottle labeled what strain and how many grams.

 

[The Ruiner]

Now that you would have to tell them that you grew it, wouldn't that make them curious about your op? So...if you are a mmj patient/grower that has a bigger space than 5x5 you become illegal, and subject to new punishments for doing something you already have been doing. Thanks prop 19 for trying to revoke the privileges of CA-MMJ patients!

 

[UncleBuck]

then how do you prove YOU grew it? from a dispensary it gives you a bag or a bottle labeled what strain and how many grams.

you don't. burden of proof is on the state. justice system 101. check a few pages back, chief.

can you guys at least give me a challenge?

 

[UncleBuck]

Now that you would have to tell them that you grew it, wouldn't that make them curious about your op

loaded question with false presupposition. more dishonest argument. barely surprising. still waiting for you to show me where it will revoke 215.

hurry up, i have a tee time soon

 

[The Ruiner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly#Characteristics

In a monopoly there is one seller of the monopolised good who produces all the output.Therefore, the whole market is being served by a single firm, and for practical purposes, the firm is the same as the industry.

i saved you the time of looking up what a monopoly actually is, as you clearly don't know what one is or you are arguing dishonestly (again).

if you want, you can get a license and sell your product to a dispensary. many dispensaries will compete with one another. you can also grow it yourself. how that qualifies as a monopoly is beyond me.



as with your other false claims, i will ask you where in the bill it says patients will lose their rights....

Resorting to arguing semantics only shows that you cannot actually argue the contents of prop19. I don't think its a stretch to say that most growers cant afford the tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of intended license/permitting fees, which will result in a small group that controlls the supply of the state. Sorry, its not your dictionary definition, I tend to think rationally, not with OCD literal interpretations people caught in lies try to rely on to weasel their way out of jams.

"that depends on what your definition of is, is..."

And, again you refuse to go into the details of the bill, or the rhetoric of its proponents. Or you just refuse to read the bill and apply the knowledge (Which I hope you have of MMJ laws/rulings in CA) and how the growing restrictions directly revoke the rights that patients currently enjoy. Please explain to me how that is a false claim. I really want to know.

Furthermore, do you even live in CA? What interest is this subject to you? You have not stated your motives whatsoever, whereas mine are all out on the table.

 

[Dan Kone]

Okay... here's another part of the bill telling you, the informed voter, that you cannot possess cannabis from "unlawful" sources...

And how is anyone going to know where you acquired your cannabis? Your dealer give you a receipt for illegal cannabis? lol. It's impossible to prove where you got it, so that is irrelevant.

And, as far as "prop 19 doesn't directly tax cannabis" that is a really hallow arguement - that text is from the bill, directly stating that if passed "may include imposition" of a fuck-ton of taxes from everyone and their mother involved in state and local government.

It's not a hollow argument at all. Prop 19 doesn't actually do anything to tax cannabis. That is a fact. It is perfectly legal to tax it right now without prop 19 and prop 19 doesn't add a tax.

That's not a hollow argument at all. It's a fact. Under any circumstances if prohibition is ended, cannabis can be taxed.

Now, given that our state is broke as fuck, and supporters of the bill themselves have been out in the media talking about "how much revenue" this could bring to california via taxation, I don't find it such a stretch to say that THERE WILL BE TAXES.

You're ignoring the fact that many cities/counties tax cannabis right now with out prop 19. Prop 19 does nothing to allow cities/counties/the state to tax cannabis that they are not already allowed to do right now.

If you want to mantain a position based off of absurd technicalities that's your deal, but at least acknowledge that your own team of supporters on this one has basically thrown your arguement out the window...months ago.

If you want to call the truth an absurd technicality, go right ahead. I'm sorry the truth is getting in your way of opposing prop 19.

And yes, all the points I was "trying" to make are pretty damn clear, it would help if the people debating this bill had the same reference point, like everyone has read the bill.

And if you'd read the bill you would know that prop 19 doesn't tax cannabis. It just has language in the bill to make voters believe it taxes cannabis in order to give it a better chance of passing.

 

[fdd2blk]

you don't. burden of proof is on the state. justice system 101. check a few pages back, chief.

can you guys at least give me a challenge?

so nobody sits in jail "awaiting" trial?

well that's worth voting yes for.

 

[Dan Kone]

...that is monopolization. It is forcing people (that don't grow) to buy from dispensaries.

So you don't like prop 19 because you might have to go to a store? Are you equally outraged that you have to buy groceries from a grocery store? Is that an evil monopoly too?

Right now you can't recreationally buy cannabis anywhere. I love how you anti prop 19 people act like allowing people to buy/sell cannabis legally is taking away our freedom. That is a completely absurd argument to make.

Shouldn't people have the choice of buying their weed from who they want?

You can. You can buy it from any dispensary you like.

Not who they are forced to?

lol @ being forced to buy cannabis. Are the cops going to drag me out of bed, put a gun to my head and force me into the dispensary of their choosing?

Why don't you show your real support by showing the rest of the growers your bad-ass 5x5 space?

I have a 215 card and my county allows me to do a 10x10 space. The prop 19 limits have no effect on me.

That, hey it's not so bad that 19 just took away all of the MMJ patients' rights,

Wait, what? Prop 19 doesn't take prop 215 and sb420 off the books. That's a bunch of crap. Prop 19 is about recreational use, not medical use.

I wonder as to why you are so comfortable with prop19...either you have a shit ton of money, don't grow or smoke, or you don't live in CA and don't care what happens. All this is my conjecture, of course.

I don't have a shit ton of money, I grow, I smoke and I live in Cali.

If it's ok for you to make those assumptions about prop 19 supporters then I guess you wouldn't mind if I said all the people who oppose prop 19 are illegal drug dealers afraid of losing their massive profits and too lazy to start a legitimate business.