"Government Motors" A failure? Think Again.

ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
Yes, obviously car manufacturers are overproducing. How do they measure a correct supply/demand when there are some idiots that change their car every year? A car can last 100,000 miles. Change the oil on time, do the maintenance. Not hard at all. On top of that bullshit, many americans get their "car" on credit, not minding that their throwing money away just to have the newest fad, instead of a standard piece of machinery that can be with the Fam for the same amount of time a good dog can. Since when did an Automobile become like a pair of sneakers?
Got any evidence that GM is overproducing? Their sales are on a pretty stready upwards swing ATM, surely that wont go on forever - but who says they're just building cars indefinantly?

4 stars! Looks like GM's cars aren't so unpopular? OK, so you are pointing out that GM uses non-American workers as well - so? Doesn't almost every multi-national? If you dont like free trade than I dont know what to tell you - because it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
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ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
4 stars! Looks like GM's cars aren't so unpopular? OK, so you are pointing out that GM uses non-American workers as well - so? Doesn't almost every multi-national? If you dont like free trade than I dont know what to tell you - because it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
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Thx for the revision of my post on "multi-national" business. Where did you get the part that I don't like free trade? Moving on, I mentioned mult-national business ethics of GM. GM has it's tenticles in many countries, NOT just the USA. I will add, that Chevy (GM) does appear to be doing much better OUTSIDE of america, because the chevy cars here are mostly 4 cylinders and compact. America is the land of the beast gas guzzler that puts 10 people inside of it, big ass engines and dual airconditioning systems and all wheel drive. Really? All wheel drive for the fucking pavement? You guys have some of the best roads... America is where the farse bankruptcy is taking place, not everywhere. GM has good stuff, they should just take off their gas guzzling shit, because the V8 and V6 industry isn't going to last at $5 a gallon to feed them. Where the fuck is all the electric/hydro shit? What a bunch of crap. My own factory (located in my ass) can produce a product that is not in high demand, as in the case with the car, but atleast it appears that without multi-national support, my ass can still supply without getting government aid. World is starting to suck when you bring politics into it
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Didn't Toyota shut down ALL of their N American Factories? If you stop producing things can you then go on to produce things?

Does GM produce Cars in China using American Workers?
GM was going to pass Toyota eventually, regardless of what Toyota did.

GM may produce cars in China and/or other countries but there are plenty of American jobs supported by GM.

The purpose of this thread is just to point out that post-bailout GM is competitive; I'm not really interested in arguing the morality of outsourcing jobs or anything of the sort... If anyone is arguing otherwise, you haven't done a very good job.
Yes, obviously car manufacturers are overproducing. How do they measure a correct supply/demand when there are some idiots that change their car every year? A car can last 100,000 miles. Change the oil on time, do the maintenance. Not hard at all. On top of that bullshit, many americans get their "car" on credit, not minding that their throwing money away just to have the newest fad, instead of a standard piece of machinery that can be with the Fam for the same amount of time a good dog can. Since when did an Automobile become like a pair of sneakers?
You still haven't presented any evidence that they're overproducing; If people still buy all their brand new cars, who gives a shit about the used ones(there is a used car market after all)? They aren't overproducing if people are, as you say, "change[ing] their care every year"...

One of pre-bailout GM's problems was that they offered too many models and too many colors/options and the end result is that some cars dont make it off the lot until they're discounted heavily, if they make it off the lot at all. Post-bailout GM is using a safer strategy and only producing what's popular... Sounds to me like they learned something!
 

ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
Who pays for all the used cars that nobody wants? Does a used chevy or ford car have about 25 percent of it's original value once it only has 20K miles on it? that is wasteful. Go ahead and explain how the Cash for Clunkers Program from President Oh-BOOM-ah was a profitable and worthwhile venture. Why does a gubenment neeed to beg and offer its people to "get rid" of some old cars that are "hurting the ozones and global warmings"? Why does the Gubenments need to give away $ IT DOESN"T HAVE to help dummies get a new car on credit? Ha! If anything, a crackhead conjured up that program. Peace
GM was going to pass Toyota eventually, regardless of what Toyota did.

GM may produce cars in China and/or other countries but there are plenty of American jobs supported by GM.

The purpose of this thread is just to point out that post-bailout GM is competitive; I'm not really interested in arguing the morality of outsourcing jobs or anything of the sort... If anyone is arguing otherwise, you haven't done a very good job.

You still haven't presented any evidence that they're overproducing; If people still buy all their brand new cars, who gives a shit about the used ones(there is a used car market after all)? They aren't overproducing if people are, as you say, are "change[ing] their care every year"...

One of pre-bailout GM's problems was that they offered too many models and too many colors/options and the end result is that some cars dont make it off the lot until they're discounted heavily, if the make it off the lot at all. Post-bailout GM is using a safer strategy and only producing what's popular... Sounds to me like they learned something!
 

mame

Well-Known Member
So pretty soon full employment in the USA then?
I didn't say that either, but I am 100% sure that without the bailouts things would have been much worse at least in the short term - and possibly (likely) in the long term as well. GM is showing that they were worth saving IMO.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I didn't say that either, but I am 100% sure that without the bailouts things would have been much worse at least in the short term - and possibly (likely) in the long term as well. GM is showing that they were worth saving IMO.
So then there aren't plenty of jobs to go around? I am still wondering if they Use American Workers in Chinese factories to build those GM cars. IS GM's greatest growth in China?
 

ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
I disagree. My family didn't get any damn part of that "stimulation package". How or why does any family that already had some benefits taken away (retired grandparents) want to go out and refinance their home, get more credit and buy shit on credit? NO! HELL NO! That package is pure BS, IMO
I didn't say that either, but I am 100% sure that without the bailouts things would have been much worse at least in the short term - and possibly (likely) in the long term as well. GM is showing that they were worth saving IMO.
 

ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
Hey ND, according to successful companies like FOXCONN that make a bunch of parts for America's God Child, Apple Inc., they mostly have chinese drones getting piss poor money for their labor in an expensive static-free factory, but the executives are Americans. They get the fat salaries. The tool monkeys are the chinese, and they get hired by the tens of thousands. Just a head count. One gets sick or dies, they can replace him without blinking an eye. This is the machine that makes your cute Ipod Nanos
So then there aren't plenty of jobs to go around? I am still wondering if they Use American Workers in Chinese factories to build those GM cars. IS GM's greatest growth in China?
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Hey ND, according to successful companies like FOXCONN that make a bunch of parts for America's God Child, Apple Inc., they mostly have chinese drones getting piss poor money for their labor in an expensive static-free factory, but the executives are Americans. They get the fat salaries. The tool monkeys are the chinese, and they get hired by the tens of thousands. Just a head count. One gets sick or dies, they can replace him without blinking an eye. This is the machine that makes your cute Ipod Nanos
So how come Apple hires Chinese people and Chinese based factories to produce things which will be mostly consumed by Americans? Why don't American's make those Apple products?

Disclaimer: I do not own a single apple product, I do not own a smart phone, I don't watch TV.
 

ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
I am going to go very far on a limb here and suppose that the Americans would never imagine working in an expensive factory, or even in a McDonalds for just $2 or $3 dollars an hour. The Elite business makers of the western world know and fully recognize that many other countries live in squallor. So we go over like a bunch of pirates dressed in business uniforms, and strike a deal with foreign free trade economies. The Foreign government loves the extra revenue coming from the American Dealings going on in their country, and the working conditions of the employees goes unnoticed, as long as the bigger man gets his money. Basically yea, many americans hire mexicans to cut their grass because they feel it is below them to do such a "hard" job that costs little money for a foreigner to do. Peace
So how come Apple hires Chinese people and Chinese based factories to produce things which will be mostly consumed by Americans? Why don't American's make those Apple products?

Disclaimer: I do not own a single apple product, I do not own a smart phone, I don't watch TV.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I am going to go very far on a limb here and suppose that the Americans would never imagine working in an expensive factory, or even in a McDonalds for just $2 or $3 dollars an hour. The Elite business makers of the western world know and fully recognize that many other countries live in squallor. So we go over like a bunch of pirates dressed in business uniforms, and strike a deal with foreign free trade economies. The Foreign government loves the extra revenue coming from the American Dealings going on in their country, and the working conditions of the employees goes unnoticed, as long as the bigger man gets his money. Basically yea, many americans hire mexicans to cut their grass because they feel it is below them to do such a "hard" job that costs little money for a foreigner to do. Peace
Solid answer, gonna +rep you for that one, might even like it.
 

ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
Try this for an experiment. Win/Steal the state lottery jackpot and then you've got some capital to grow a new business. Let's say it was $200,000,000... rediculous lottery sum but oh well. Now buy up one lot of land and build two factories. Let's say now half your money is gone from that investment. You have $100,000,000. You decide to load each factory with workers sourced from two nations. 1 is Americans, and the other are the Mexicans. Let's suppose that both groups are educated equally, however the Mexican group was illegal immigrant labor and you could pay them much less $. You can practically pay them Mexican wages instead of American wages. You will quickly notice that after you put all your workers on the salary, the Mexican factory will be producing the same product at 1000% less cost, becuase you pay them mexican wages. Now get over to the American factory, and you're gonna realize that your fabrication is running in the red, because having americans on board to produce a cheap product will be too expensive in LABOR. Hire Foreigners, make cheap stuff, get richer faster. Higher Americans, pay each individual 13$ an hour and suffer the losses. Peace
 

mame

Well-Known Member
So then there aren't plenty of jobs to go around? I am still wondering if they Use American Workers in Chinese factories to build those GM cars. IS GM's greatest growth in China?
Good question. I didn't find anything direct, but I found a few bits of information that gives us a good idea(unfortunately some via WIki, I'm a little busy today lol):
GM increased its sales in China by 68 percent to 230,048 vehicles in March 2010, outsold its U.S. sales of 188,546 by 22 percent.
So if Chinese sales are increasing at 68%, 22% faster than American sales growth - how fast is the American market growing? A little napkin math says that 78% of 68 is nearly 52... So U.S. sales grew by 52% in 2010 and Chinese sales by 68%.

Consider population differences, etc. and that doesn't look like a huge difference broken down into a "per capita" sort of analysis. Although, GM China is growing at a faster pace than GM America - so you've got me there.

However, as of 2008 (most recent data available I guess?) GM's American sales totaled at ~2,981,000 compared with China's ~1,095,000 total. Futhermore, GM holds a strong 22.1% (also as of 2008, most recent data found) of the American market and only 12% in China's total car market - which could mean that GM is simply not as popular in China and/or it could mean that the Chinese car market is simply more competitive than the American market... Either way, it seems to me like America is the better market for GM overall ATM but there is a possibility that may change in the future (the growth rate disparity shows it's possible after all).

But it seems the story isn't over!
production.jpg
I think it's fair to post this little bit too... This graph shows a decline in American production, which is where all of the jobs come from. From an article from 2005 on why GM was downsizing (they had just closed down 3 plants, and showed a loss for the quarter):
The company’s market share doesn’t support its size. They have too many plants, too many workers, too many models, too many dealers and their employee benefits are too high.
So this decline in U.S. production was a needed decline, as they were previously overproducing/overpaying. They're profitable now, so that problem seems to be fixed. The important thing to notice is that GM wasn't slashing American jobs and shipping them overseas as the long term trend on global production is fairly neutral, I mean, it's ticking upwards a little - but those increases in global production are likely just as easily explained by increasing global demand than a shift in the labor force. So it's not really fair to say GM is taking American money and moving overseas either.

My conclusion is still in favor of the bailouts.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Toyota sold almost 35,000 vehicles in China last year. 1/10 as many as GM. Did you know that the Chinese and Japanese have a strong dislike for each other?

FWIW Im not saying that the bailouts didn't save GM, they certainly did, but was it overall better for Americans or Chinese to save it? I think the answer has already been given.
 

newatit2010

Well-Known Member
Thx for the revision of my post on "multi-national" business. Where did you get the part that I don't like free trade? Moving on, I mentioned mult-national business ethics of GM. GM has it's tenticles in many countries, NOT just the USA. I will add, that Chevy (GM) does appear to be doing much better OUTSIDE of america, because the chevy cars here are mostly 4 cylinders and compact. America is the land of the beast gas guzzler that puts 10 people inside of it, big ass engines and dual airconditioning systems and all wheel drive. Really? All wheel drive for the fucking pavement? You guys have some of the best roads... America is where the farse bankruptcy is taking place, not everywhere. GM has good stuff, they should just take off their gas guzzling shit, because the V8 and V6 industry isn't going to last at $5 a gallon to feed them. Where the fuck is all the electric/hydro shit? What a bunch of crap. My own factory (located in my ass) can produce a product that is not in high demand, as in the case with the car, but atleast it appears that without multi-national support, my ass can still supply without getting government aid. World is starting to suck when you bring politics into it

Sir, you have hit the nail on the head. This country is trying to be a "multi-national country" not the Greatest Nation in the World as we use to be. The only ones that get a break is the "To Big To Fail" companies, banks,wallstreet,etc. If this country don't start depending on itself we will be owned by the "multi-national world" aka: NWO.

a+rep
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
Good point, but what about foreign oil? People on left want to see an end in offshore drilling and other places, why? Idk. You might say well, look at bp! So what, look at the bailouts the auto industry got as well.




Where in life is the guarantee of fairness?

Business is not figure skating and judged on style points. The bottom line is that GM is succeeding, I find it funny that people on the right want to see GM and the American auto industry fail because of the bailouts. So you would rather see a Japanese company beat out American companies?

You'd rather GM fail, 1,000's of Americans lose their jobs, associated American business fail than to have an Obama policy be right? How Patriotic of you.
 

ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
The failure if GM is lamented as well... Don't ever think that a bunch of people would like to see an independent company fall down into a burning pile of rubble. The GM company grew up in the prime war days and peace days when America cared about being NUMBER 1 of all the other countries. There are old timers that have been with that company for 40 or 50 years. It must be sad for someone like that to look back and wonder what the fuck happened. I would like to reference what had been said once before, Today America cares more about being a Multi-National business than being the #1 superpower. I suppose the superpower days have been over since Bill Clinton stepped out of office, or rather had been impeached. America's former shadow lingers on today and that's why we have so much fighting between Right and Left, traditionalists that hang on to a dead past, and others that want a change, and change now because this current limbo is not good for the Reputation of one of the noblest nations.
 

jeff f

New Member
GM is set to pass Toyota as the worlds largest automaker.

CNNMoney notes that this is, at least in part, because of the Earthquake and Tsunami disasters in Japan hurting Toyota sales - but they also say this:

lets see, a massive tsunami destroyed all their factories and GM moved ahead of them.

so your "plan" for moving our economy ahead is massive flooding of other countries in the world? maybe we can hope for raining cats and dogs, literally. or pestulance and locusts. maybe we can hope for landslides, that should work to improve US companies positions.

maybe lightning strikes. yes, lets try lightning strikes....that should work..... oh boy
 
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