1000 hps vs. 2x 400 hps?
- Thread starter mexsinsemilla
- Start date
smoke and coke
Well-Known Member
im sorry i didnt read evryones post but gotta go. and also im using 400 watters only cause they were like almost free and i already have them and everyone is bumming me out about the little ass 400's. lol
anyways i saw alot of people saying a 4x4 room, when the thread starter says his room is 15x15. he may need alot more light. grow on!!!
BCtrippin
Well-Known Member
Light is Not plant food...
Plants make their own food, light is a small part of that process of photosynthesis.It doesnt matter how much weed you grew that one time if you cant replicate it every time.
Obviously you need lighting with the rest of your environment, but adding more light to increase yields without upgrading the Environment is absolutely absurd. Environment is Key. Adding more lights comes later.
You can blast 50 000w of light on your plants and grow half a pound if you dont have everything else up to par.
Environment is SOO much more important than lighting in so many ways.
Telling people to blast more light on their plants is Horrible advice...sorry. Theres So many other ways to increase yields without adding more light.
And when you do add more light, you better make sure you upgrade everything else first because if the environment isnt up to par then your wasting money on new lighting and electricity.
Lets just stop arguing ok?
There alot of factors involved in growing and everyone knows it. Getting
the highest yield and efficiency requires the right balance of those factors,
and everyone has their own way of doing it.
Geez, this all started over a question someone asked about using either a
600w or a 1000w lamp in his specific situation. Let's help each other, not
flame and argue. Remember, the internet is serious business : /
There alot of factors involved in growing and everyone knows it. Getting
the highest yield and efficiency requires the right balance of those factors,
and everyone has their own way of doing it.
Geez, this all started over a question someone asked about using either a
600w or a 1000w lamp in his specific situation. Let's help each other, not
flame and argue. Remember, the internet is serious business : /
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
Do you have links to these claims from the ballast companies themselves or is it misinformation from posters that make the claims?
The only claim I have seen about digital ballasts is that they are more efficient. For example, a 600 watt coil and core ballast draws about 630 watts to produce that 600w to the lamp. A digital ballast only draw 600w for the same for a savings of 30w. Add that up at $.12/kWh if run every day of the year is a savings of $15/ballast/year.
They also claim to help lamp life with soft start features. They don't continually try to restart after an outage either, the lumateks wait 2 minutes IIRC, in between attempting a soft restart. Add the power savings to a slower dropoff of lumens as the lamp ages, there really is not a huge cost savings to buying magnetic ballasts from the beginning.
BCtrippin
Well-Known Member
Im not arguing man.
Why do people have to make everything into an argument? Can't we have open discussion with differing opinions? Isn't that why we are all here?
Mindphuk, you can find those claims on any website that sells digital ballasts, along with the website for the
ballasts themselves. I was just wondering if anyone has actually tested and compared efficiency or brightness,
to see if the claims hold water. Without proof, it's all just marketing.
ballasts themselves. I was just wondering if anyone has actually tested and compared efficiency or brightness,
to see if the claims hold water. Without proof, it's all just marketing.
BCtrippin
Well-Known Member
You said it. They are not worth the money, and when your digi breaks or fails or stops working what can you do? Basically replace it or get it repaired by the retailer for some $$$.
With a Magnetic ballast theres about 3 parts that can possibly fail other then wiring. They are reliable and last forever if properly maintained. And they are a fuckload cheaper to buy initially.
The only good thing I see about the digis is that they have the "soft start" they dont have as high of a startup spike. I could see that helping the bulb last longer, but not brighter. An aircooled hood will help a bulb run cooler and burn brighter with any ballast though.
smoke and coke
Well-Known Member
i got my MH fixtures from a demo job so cost me nothing. i have at least 5 400w HPS fixtures that i can think of, may have 1 or 2 in the attic. i paid less than 40 bucks a piece. a couple of them were like 25 bucks. check out my thread in my sig. industrial fixtures are pretty easy to work with.You said it. They are not worth the money, and when your digi breaks or fails or stops working what can you do? Basically replace it or get it repaired by the retailer for some $$$.
With a Magnetic ballast theres about 3 parts that can possibly fail other then wiring. They are reliable and last forever if properly maintained. And they are a fuckload cheaper to buy initially.
The only good thing I see about the digis is that they have the "soft start" they dont have as high of a startup spike. I could see that helping the bulb last longer, but not brighter. An aircooled hood will help a bulb run cooler and burn brighter with any ballast though.
as far as repairing them yes is much easier than an electronic balasts.
but you can find replacement fixtures almost as cheap as the repair part. all you have to do is shop around.
9inch bigbud
Well-Known Member
.Light is Not plant food...
It doesnt matter how much weed you grew that one time if you cant replicate it every time.
Obviously you need lighting with the rest of your environment, but adding more light to increase yields without upgrading the Environment is absolutely absurd. Environment is Key. Adding more lights comes later.
You can blast 50 000w of light on your plants and grow half a pound if you dont have everything else up to par.
Environment is SOO much more important than lighting in so many ways.
Telling people to blast more light on their plants is Horrible advice...sorry. Theres So many other ways to increase yields without adding more light.
And when you do add more light, you better make sure you upgrade everything else first because if the environment isnt up to par then your wasting money on new lighting and electricity.
no its a big part of photosynthesis much more so than what you put in the soil i.e what we call plant food.
you can give the plant all the nutes you like it will grow no bigger than if you dont have the light! why do plants stretch turn yellow and the leaf fall from the lower parts of a plant? lack of light! not lack of nutes, so if you add light to the bottom of the plant then you will still have nice green growth on the bottom.
why i say light is the real plant food is because you can give it all the nutes you like it will not grow any bigger i.e yeild fat buds than if you give it a little less nutes. the more light the plant gets the bigger the plant the bigger the yeild that is a fact. more light= bigger plants you can have the light from a HID to close and it will burn bleach the leaf yes thats true so what do we do? lift the light up to compensate adding more light then will penetrate the canopy much better resulting in fatter buds = light is the real plant food the more you give the plant the bigger it will grow, as i have said a plant will grow with 1/2 the nutes you give it, you try doing the same giving your plants 1/2 the light and see how much bud you grow. 75w per square foot is not over kill if you can keep the temperature down using cool tubes and i would not waste my time with Co2 using any thing less than that.
I hit over a GPW Im happy
using 60+ watts per square foot if you use less expect to harvest less.
BCtrippin
Well-Known Member
Sorry I really have to disagree with you hear. Obviously you NEED the light, thats standard. But adding light does not guarantee increased yields.
Light alone doesnt do much at all. Why dont you feed some plants strait water with any amount of lighting and see how much bud you can grow. Light is Not plant food or any type of food.
Light + Nutes + Water + c02 = Plant Food.
Light is such a small part of growing, and too many people get overly obsessed with packing in more light where its not needed.
When I say light is not the most important thing you make it sound like I am telling people to grow under a 60w incandescent because it doesnt matter....Well thats NOT what Im saying.
What I AM saying is that it DOESNT MATTER HOW MUCH LIGHT you give your plants if your c02 levels, airflow, and nutes arent up to par.
Getting obsessed over your lighting is a bad idea. People should get obsessed over controlling their grow room environment. If you have perfect temps, humidity, airflow, C02 levels, then you can add as many lights as you want without having any issues.
Now just so we are clear. Lighting is very important, but IMO not the #1 priority in a grow room. Its soo much easier too just add more lights then it is to manage environment, and I guess thats why so many people think cramming in more lights means more buds.
But if you Get to Know your Strain, develope a Proper nute schedule, increase airflow, and manage Day and Night temps you will increase your yield a lot before ever adding more lights.
Lights just set the goals or the guidlines. Reaching that potential takes a LOT more then just lighting.
I agree, except one thing. Light is number one, because no matter what else you have a plant
cannot grow without light. Google "chlorophyll". You'll see that light does equal food, in a way.
More accurately, light equals energy. Chlorophyll helps plants turn light directly into energy. Do they still
need nutrients? Of course. And they use the energy they obtain from light to absorb and use those
nutrients.
Remember that without light, there is no color. So without light, your plants are not green. And if
they are not green, they're dead, lol.
cannot grow without light. Google "chlorophyll". You'll see that light does equal food, in a way.
More accurately, light equals energy. Chlorophyll helps plants turn light directly into energy. Do they still
need nutrients? Of course. And they use the energy they obtain from light to absorb and use those
nutrients.
Remember that without light, there is no color. So without light, your plants are not green. And if
they are not green, they're dead, lol.
9inch bigbud
Well-Known Member
i agree with all you have too say about the enviroment what im saying 75w per square foot is not over kill if you can control the enviroment temps humidity 75-80F 40-60R/H without adding extra Co2 plants will grow bigger with more light up to around 75w psf if you go over that then you will need to add co2 to get any use out of the extra light being added temps would have to be in the 90s also.Sorry I really have to disagree with you hear. Obviously you NEED the light, thats standard. But adding light does not guarantee increased yields.
Light alone doesnt do much at all. Why dont you feed some plants strait water with any amount of lighting and see how much bud you can grow. Light is Not plant food or any type of food.
Light + Nutes + Water + c02 = Plant Food.
Light is such a small part of growing, and too many people get overly obsessed with packing in more light where its not needed.
When I say light is not the most important thing you make it sound like I am telling people to grow under a 60w incandescent because it doesnt matter....Well thats NOT what Im saying.
What I AM saying is that it DOESNT MATTER HOW MUCH LIGHT you give your plants if your c02 levels, airflow, and nutes arent up to par.
Getting obsessed over your lighting is a bad idea. People should get obsessed over controlling their grow room environment. If you have perfect temps, humidity, airflow, C02 levels, then you can add as many lights as you want without having any issues.
Now just so we are clear. Lighting is very important, but IMO not the #1 priority in a grow room. Its soo much easier too just add more lights then it is to manage environment, and I guess thats why so many people think cramming in more lights means more buds.
But if you Get to Know your Strain, develope a Proper nute schedule, increase airflow, and manage Day and Night temps you will increase your yield a lot before ever adding more lights.
Lights just set the goals or the guidlines. Reaching that potential takes a LOT more then just lighting.
I have had a look at your grow tent and it looks nice what lights you using? your telling me that if you added another 600w to the center of the 2 you alrady have would grow no more bud?
the more light you give a plant the more of everything else you can give it, it will take more nutes/C02 and water you can give it all you want the light becomes the only limiting factor. thats why 600w grow bigger buds than 400s and 1000w grow bigger buds than 600s
smoke and coke
Well-Known Member
ahhhh i see you guys are getting close to making up. i see the light at the end of the tunnel. you both are making some good points.
BCtrippin
Well-Known Member
It could increase yields, but only because I have temp, humidity, and airflow already managed.
I have been very clear on what Im trying to say. Adding more lights can only increase yields IF environment is up to par. otherwise its just a waste of electricity.
You dont always need to add c02 to get more out of your lights either, you can simply just increase airflow, if you exchange the air more often then the c02 levels wont drop so much.
I dont need to google chorophyl. I know exactly how photosynthesis works, thats why I wouldnt cram more light over plants that really dont need it.
I never Ever said you can grow without light....read my WHOLE last post please.
What I have said and am trying to say is that light is Not the most important thing in a grow. Lights simply set the limits of what your plants can achieve, it takes a growers skill to unlock that potential.
I said it before, Ill say it agian. It doesnt matter how much light you have if the environment and feeding program isnt up to par.
Just adding lights does NOT increase yields. You can add all the lights in the world and it wont make your buds any bigger or better if you dont have proper environment controls and a proper feeding schedule.
If you dont believe me go get 10000w of HID lighting, set it up in a room with as many plants as you want without setting up fans and environmental controlls first. Then try to grow some weed. When you epiclly fail then maybe you will realize how much more important proper environment is then lighting.
IMO if you are worring about lighting before environment then you are putting the Wagon ahead of the Horse.
Lighting is like the Wagon. It has "limits" and "potential" of how much it can "carry" or grow.
Environment and feeding is like the Horse. Its the driving Factor. Its what unlocks that Potential that your lighting gives you.
Lighting determines how much you COULD potentially grow in a set up. Achieving that potential takes a lot more than just lighting.
BCtrippin
Well-Known Member
rofl......
9inch bigbud
Well-Known Member
plants will only grow as fast as their most limiting factor allows the limiting factor is light because we can give it all the nutes, water and co2 easily and if we can keep the temp's humidity in perffect range when the light intensity increases, the rate of photosynthesis increases how much light that is i dont know, but i know its more than 2x600 in a 4x4 grow tent.
light is not plant food??
still think light is not the true food we give plants?http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=smXPR_oBvCQC&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq=With+1,000+calories+of+solar+energy+captured+by+the+plant,&source=bl&ots=7uqmBFyB5e&sig=ykNPiE2p8JgOI6qpxuanoF7VAMU&hl=en&ei=QSPZSZJqotSMB_-6jZYN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA120,M1
light is not plant food??
still think light is not the true food we give plants?http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=smXPR_oBvCQC&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq=With+1,000+calories+of+solar+energy+captured+by+the+plant,&source=bl&ots=7uqmBFyB5e&sig=ykNPiE2p8JgOI6qpxuanoF7VAMU&hl=en&ei=QSPZSZJqotSMB_-6jZYN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA120,M1
9inch bigbud
Well-Known Member
Laws of thermodynamics:
-1st Law of Thermodynamics: energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be changed.
-2nd Law of Thermodynamics: every time energy is changed from one form to another, some is lost, usually in the form of heat.
-Definition of energy: energy is the ability to do work or cause change. Work is defined as the movement of mass through space (change, therefore, results in the mass being in a new location).
-measurement of energy: in biological systems, the unit of measurement for energy is the calorie.
-calorie= the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one gram of water one degree centigrade, from 16 to 17 degrees. This unit is extremely small, so the common measure is a “kilocalorie”. Following the metric system where the prefix “kilo” means “one-thousand”, a kilocalorie is 1000 calories. This is commonly expressed as a Calorie (capital “c” calorie). This is the “food calorie” unit. Capitalization designates two different units, it is not a grammatical/spelling related. (Using metric logic, a kilocalorie is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of 1000 grams of water one degree centigrade. 1000 grams of water is 1000 milliliters, is also 1 liter).
-The first Law of Thermodynamics means that energy is available in a flow, IT DOES NOT CYCLE! Energy is available, can be used, then it is dispersed in a less usable form, usually heat. “Entropy” refers to the process of energy being transferred from a concentrated to a more diffuse form…..concentrated is basically usable, diffuse is non-usable, it is usually in the form of heat.
-Photosynthesis is the process of solar energy being captured by green plants. The biochemistry of the process of photosynthesis was a mystery that has been unraveled in steps over a period of decades. The equation for the reaction is simple, the mechanism is detailed (and is what has taken the time to determine). Written in chemical symbols shows the simplicity: CO2+H20 in the presence of light energy and chlorophyll>C6H12O6+H2O+O2. In words, the equation is stated: carbon dioxide and water in the presence of light energy and the pigment chlorophyll yields sugar, water and oxygen. (the equation written in chemical symbols is not balanced).
-An examination of the reactants and products of photosynthesis shows both the simplicity and importance of the process.
-Carbon forms the backbone of the energy-containing molecule produced in photosynthesis, a six-carbon sugar. Carbon is available from the atmosphere in the gaseous form of carbon dioxide.
-Water is the source of the hydrogen atoms needed to form the sugar molecule. Water is present in liquid form, as it is taken in through the roots of the plant.
-Light energy from the sun in the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum drives the process of photosynthesis. Energy in the 400-700 nanometer wavelengths, specifically blue and red wavelengths of visible light, is absorbed by the green plant pigment chlorophyll. This light energy is used to break the bonds of the reactants and is what is stored within the new bonds of the products as they capture electrons that have become activated by the light energy. There is no reaction without the chlorophyll pigment.
-The six-carbon sugar formed in photosynthesis is both a building block and final product within the plant. Some plants provide the sugar directly, others synthesize the sugar into larger/more complex molecules. For example, cellulose is a complex carbohydrate (a compound composed of the elements carbon, hydrogen and oxygen) made within the plant by combining the six-carbon chain into a longer chemical molecule.
-1st Law of Thermodynamics: energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be changed.
-2nd Law of Thermodynamics: every time energy is changed from one form to another, some is lost, usually in the form of heat.
-Definition of energy: energy is the ability to do work or cause change. Work is defined as the movement of mass through space (change, therefore, results in the mass being in a new location).
-measurement of energy: in biological systems, the unit of measurement for energy is the calorie.
-calorie= the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one gram of water one degree centigrade, from 16 to 17 degrees. This unit is extremely small, so the common measure is a “kilocalorie”. Following the metric system where the prefix “kilo” means “one-thousand”, a kilocalorie is 1000 calories. This is commonly expressed as a Calorie (capital “c” calorie). This is the “food calorie” unit. Capitalization designates two different units, it is not a grammatical/spelling related. (Using metric logic, a kilocalorie is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of 1000 grams of water one degree centigrade. 1000 grams of water is 1000 milliliters, is also 1 liter).
-The first Law of Thermodynamics means that energy is available in a flow, IT DOES NOT CYCLE! Energy is available, can be used, then it is dispersed in a less usable form, usually heat. “Entropy” refers to the process of energy being transferred from a concentrated to a more diffuse form…..concentrated is basically usable, diffuse is non-usable, it is usually in the form of heat.
-Photosynthesis is the process of solar energy being captured by green plants. The biochemistry of the process of photosynthesis was a mystery that has been unraveled in steps over a period of decades. The equation for the reaction is simple, the mechanism is detailed (and is what has taken the time to determine). Written in chemical symbols shows the simplicity: CO2+H20 in the presence of light energy and chlorophyll>C6H12O6+H2O+O2. In words, the equation is stated: carbon dioxide and water in the presence of light energy and the pigment chlorophyll yields sugar, water and oxygen. (the equation written in chemical symbols is not balanced).
-An examination of the reactants and products of photosynthesis shows both the simplicity and importance of the process.
-Carbon forms the backbone of the energy-containing molecule produced in photosynthesis, a six-carbon sugar. Carbon is available from the atmosphere in the gaseous form of carbon dioxide.
-Water is the source of the hydrogen atoms needed to form the sugar molecule. Water is present in liquid form, as it is taken in through the roots of the plant.
-Light energy from the sun in the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum drives the process of photosynthesis. Energy in the 400-700 nanometer wavelengths, specifically blue and red wavelengths of visible light, is absorbed by the green plant pigment chlorophyll. This light energy is used to break the bonds of the reactants and is what is stored within the new bonds of the products as they capture electrons that have become activated by the light energy. There is no reaction without the chlorophyll pigment.
-The six-carbon sugar formed in photosynthesis is both a building block and final product within the plant. Some plants provide the sugar directly, others synthesize the sugar into larger/more complex molecules. For example, cellulose is a complex carbohydrate (a compound composed of the elements carbon, hydrogen and oxygen) made within the plant by combining the six-carbon chain into a longer chemical molecule.