2 600 watt or 1 1000watt

aknight3

Moderator
if you do the math its really not to much coverage imo, 4x4 with 145000 lumens is 9028 lumens per sq ft or something close to that, thats NOT optimum, 10k is optimum, and like prev posts said, the more u move the light away the less lumens u get so it would be even LESS than 9k per sq ft, so i dont beleive im overkill at all, im looking for optimum conditions with the area i have
 

Brick Top

New Member
well i acutally did the math bro, on a average sunny day the sun lets out anywhere from 9 to 10,000 lumens per sq ft, if i had say the 1000 watter that i want and i beleive they push 145,000 lumens, in a 4 by 4 area i would be pumping out 9,062 lumens and change to be exact, so actually if anything im below ''optimum'', like i said before, i want to do it right,

Regardless of how much the sun puts out a plant can only absorb a certain amount of light rays. Anything above and beyond that is wasted light and of absolutely no value so it is not as if you have to try to match the sun.

By the way when you "did the math" were you figuring lux lumens or par lumens? Anything outside the light spectrums a plant uses is absolutely useless to plants.

But what do I know …… we only own a nursery and grow trees and bushes for a living and have three members of the family with botany degrees.
 

Dirtyboy

Well-Known Member
Regardless of how much the sun puts out a plant can only absorb a certain amount of light rays. Anything above and beyond that is wasted light and of absolutely no value so it is not as if you have to try to match the sun.

By the way when you "did the math" were you figuring lux lumens or par lumens? Anything outside the light spectrums a plant uses is absolutely useless to plants.

But what do I know …… we only own a nursery and grow trees and bushes for a living and have three members of the family with botany degrees.
Thats correct. Ya can have too much light on plants. They will turn yellow from the light being too close. Light bleaching i have heard it called.

Ya must have enough info by now.

1000 watter runs hot!
600 ya can have the light closer.
1000 covers more space.
Both are good pick 1.
 

Brick Top

New Member
i appreciate the input, but im looking for facts and logic, i want best possible yields in the shortest amount of time


The amount of light will factor into getting the most and even somewhat in shortening the timeframe much like a plant grown at the equator will finish faster than a plant grown in Canada due to more direct light rays.

But it will only factor in so much because as I said a plant, any type of plant, can only absorb a certain amount of light rays and anything above and beyond that is useless wasted light.

What will play a more key role, what will be more of a factor is what strain(s) you grow considering you are most interested in time and yield. That decision will be far more important and make a much bigger difference by far in your final outcome than putting more light on your plants than they can use will.

That is both fact and logic so you got what you asked for.
 

aknight3

Moderator
Regardless of how much the sun puts out a plant can only absorb a certain amount of light rays. Anything above and beyond that is wasted light and of absolutely no value so it is not as if you have to try to match the sun.

By the way when you "did the math" were you figuring lux lumens or par lumens? Anything outside the light spectrums a plant uses is absolutely useless to plants.

But what do I know …… we only own a nursery and grow trees and bushes for a living and have three members of the family with botany degrees.
first, i didnt mean to slightly offend anyone by this thread, im just looking for quality answers. im not saying you know nothing or that your incapable of doing what you say is your job, however, when i ''did the math'', i figured also that other than metal halide and hps there are no other lights that match these hids. so regardless of what is useless to plants, im trying to make the best possible environment for them, marijuana plants have been around alot longer than your botany degree, if the sun lets out 10k lumens per sq ft on a sunny day, i bet thats how much they can take and maybe a bit more, so im not worried about ''to much'' light. theres plent of things in an indoor grow that are completley useless to plants, but if you look at it that way why are you even growing indoor at all.
 

Brick Top

New Member
im not gonna have 1 ft tall plants but i wont have 3 or 4 fters either, im looking for like 2 ft or 6 inches more no higher,

Maximum yield was something you said was important to you but you will not grow plants taller than that?

I guess you plan on making up what will be lost by growing shorter plants by cutting down the overall grow time by using shorter vegging time and starting and harvesting more crops per year, right?
 

aknight3

Moderator
yes sir, mini sog style, i know that sounds weird, but i want it to be like sog but i plan on have planta bit taller than 1 ft
 

Tronica

Well-Known Member
Maximum yield was something you said was important to you but you will not grow plants taller than that?

I guess you plan on making up what will be lost by growing shorter plants by cutting down the overall grow time by using shorter vegging time and starting and harvesting more crops per year, right?


he could be using lst or something to keep them short
 

Brick Top

New Member
haha yea, why do u choose to only go with 1 plant? i can see the advantages, only taking care of 1 root system and such but u could easily incread yield by adding 2 or 3 more u know

I have seen plants that were topped two or three times that produced more yield than most people will get from three or four plants that were not topped so if he tops his plants there is no need for more plants to get a high yield.

And maybe he grows plants taller than the roughly two foot or two foot six inch plants that you are talking about growing so he may get half again as much or twice as much from his one single plant than you will from two or maybe even three of your small plants depending on how he grows.
 

aknight3

Moderator
yea i know that can vary greatly, thanks alot brick for your input, and thanks to everyone for advice, honestly i still dont know what im going to do, i was originally gun ho for the 1000 watter but now im gonna look into the 2 600's more and see what i can come up with, maybe ill keep a journal on here when i start it up, thanks again everyone
 

mygirls

Medical Marijuana (MOD)
im sure i will see twice the yield off this one plant compared to 2 even maybe 3 of my 7ft tall plants put together. and this is all in a room 6ft by 6ft by 7ft high with the one 1000wtt hps..
 

Dirtyboy

Well-Known Member
im sure i will see twice the yield off this one plant compared to 2 even maybe 3 of my 7ft tall plants put together. and this is all in a room 6ft by 6ft by 7ft high with the one 1000wtt hps..
That is 1 hell of a plant bro!
 

Brick Top

New Member
first, i didnt mean to slightly offend anyone by this thread, im just looking for quality answers. im not saying you know nothing or that your incapable of doing what you say is your job, however, when i ''did the math'', i figured also that other than metal halide and hps there are no other lights that match these hids. so regardless of what is useless to plants, im trying to make the best possible environment for them, marijuana plants have been around alot longer than your botany degree, if the sun lets out 10k lumens per sq ft on a sunny day, i bet thats how much they can take and maybe a bit more, so im not worried about ''to much'' light. theres plent of things in an indoor grow that are completley useless to plants, but if you look at it that way why are you even growing indoor at all.

I understand what you are saying and I understand what you see as being logical but look at it in another way. One layer of roofing shingles is all you need on your roof so would there be a value in laying down a double layer? It would give you twice the protection using your logic, which is more has to be better, so would it be a value to you do to it?

If you were painting a wall two coats will easily give you all the coverage you need so would you give your wall four coats of paint just to make sure it has all it can possibly get? Would that be better and would it be a better value? If more equates to better, as you seem to believe, than I have to guess you would say yes, you would put on four coats.

Doing something right is one thing and doing it right is a value. Overdoing something is not making it more right or making it better and overdoing something is not a value.

By the way you said; "a lot longer than your botany degree." I do not want to mislead you so I will set the record straight. My brother in law, my sister and my niece are the ones with the botany degrees, not me. I only know what I know by having been taught by them.

I always say when it comes to growing for things other than water and nutes a more than is actually needed is better than not enough of what is needed. I always say it about pot size and I say the same about lighting but there is, in my opinion, where you reach a point of diminishing returns, where what you pay for what you buy and what you pay to operate it does not give you enough of a return to be worth it. Having a little more than what is needed is not at all a bad route to take, it is not an injudicious decision to make, but having a lot more than is needed is illogical.

As I said in my original message between your two options I have to say I would go with the two 600 watt lights, to me that would be the better option of the two so if your mind is made up that those are the only two viable options my vote is go with the two 600 watt lights BUT I still believe it is a case of having more than your plants will actually be able to use light-wise. But if it is a value in your eyes that is all that matters so by all means go that route.

I am sure that you would never consider this but given the size of the area you are talking about using you and the amount of money you are willing to spend you could go with lower wattage HID lighting and buy a number of LED light bars and mount them on portable posts and surround your plants with them and put them between your plants and flood them with absolutely nothing but the light spectrums the plants will use and they would hardly put off any heat and they would use very little energy.

Several years ago I followed a thread in a grow forum on another herb site and the member did an all LED grow. He had what may be the thickest most lush fullest heaviest producing plants I have ever seen. All the way down to the lowest branches he had big thick heavy hard buds. His plants were totally flooded with light but in only the light spectrums that the plants actually use and he did not need an expensive elaborate ventilation system and his electricity costs were minimal and nothing that would ever draw the attention of LEO.

So if you have so much money to invest into your setup you may want to sit back and puff a bowl and rework some numbers and consider doing something of a combination of what you have in mind and what he did if you really want optimal conditions for your plants to grow in.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying and I understand what you see as being logical but look at it in another way. One layer of roofing shingles is all you need on your roof so would there be a value in laying down a double layer? It would give you twice the protection using your logic, which is more has to be better, so would it be a value to you do to it?

If you were painting a wall two coats will easily give you all the coverage you need so would you give your wall four coats of paint just to make sure it has all it can possibly get? Would that be better and would it be a better value? If more equates to better, as you seem to believe, than I have to guess you would say yes, you would put on four coats.

Doing something right is one thing and doing it right is a value. Overdoing something is not making it more right or making it better and overdoing something is not a value.

By the way you said; "a lot longer than your botany degree." I do not want to mislead you so I will set the record straight. My brother in law, my sister and my niece are the ones with the botany degrees, not me. I only know what I know by having been taught by them.

I always say when it comes to growing for things other than water and nutes a more than is actually needed is better than not enough of what is needed. I always say it about pot size and I say the same about lighting but there is, in my opinion, where you reach a point of diminishing returns, where what you pay for what you buy and what you pay to operate it does not give you enough of a return to be worth it. Having a little more than what is needed is not at all a bad route to take, it is not an injudicious decision to make, but having a lot more than is needed is illogical.

As I said in my original message between your two options I have to say I would go with the two 600 watt lights, to me that would be the better option of the two so if your mind is made up that those are the only two viable options my vote is go with the two 600 watt lights BUT I still believe it is a case of having more than your plants will actually be able to use light-wise. But if it is a value in your eyes that is all that matters so by all means go that route.

I am sure that you would never consider this but given the size of the area you are talking about using you and the amount of money you are willing to spend you could go with lower wattage HID lighting and buy a number of LED light bars and mount them on portable posts and surround your plants with them and put them between your plants and flood them with absolutely nothing but the light spectrums the plants will use and they would hardly put off any heat and they would use very little energy.

Several years ago I followed a thread in a grow forum on another herb site and the member did an all LED grow. He had what may be the thickest most lush fullest heaviest producing plants I have ever seen. All the way down to the lowest branches he had big thick heavy hard buds. His plants were totally flooded with light but in only the light spectrums that the plants actually use and he did not need an expensive elaborate ventilation system and his electricity costs were minimal and nothing that would ever draw the attention of LEO.

So if you have so much money to invest into your setup you may want to sit back and puff a bowl and rework some numbers and consider doing something of a combination of what you have in mind and what he did if you really want optimal conditions for your plants to grow in.
Ditto everything he said

I'd like to add that if you stick with a single 600 which is plenty for a 4x4 grow, unless like I said earlier you are trying to grow trees, the money saved on the extra lamp, reflector and most important, electricity, can be spent on a good CO2 system. CO2 will add more weight than a second 600w lamp will. With 600w, light no longer is your limiting factor, CO2 will be.
 
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