Webbdtoez
Well-Known Member
Thank you, Thundercat!
I just watered yesterday, 2 cups each, after 6 days of no watering. I watered because they were showing signs that i needed to, such as drooping of the leaves.
4X4 1200w V-ScrOG Cage of Green
- Thread starter Webbdtoez
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I just watered yesterday, 2 cups each, after 6 days of no watering. I watered because they were showing signs that i needed to, such as drooping of the leaves.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Good. if possible try to see how wet the soil is in the bottom of the pot. What happens if the soil stays too wet is it won't allow oxygen into the roots. I've grown soil plants that I only watered once a week.
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Hi mate, what's the drainage like on those 20 litre (5 gallon) buckets?
As I mentioned earlier, there are two common things that will slow seedling growth: over-fertilising (burns the roots), and over watering (drowns the roots).
Under-fertilising is less common in soil, as potting mix etc already has lots of nutrient. It is possibile that if you use too much perlite or other innate substrate (which contains no nutrient), then your plants can suffer from a nutrient deficiency. However, this is also rare in seedlings as they don't require much nutrient until they get bigger. Plus I don't really see that with your plants - they don't look burned and they don't look like they're starving. In fact, with 20 litres of soil mix in there, they should not be suffering from a lack of nutrient.
That basically leaves you with overwatering - or lack of drainage. You can try poking holes into the soil with a stick to help aerate it and make sure you have lots of drainage holes in the bottom of your buckets so that water can drain out and air can get in.
If you have a look at all the other photos of healthy plants posted in your thread, you will see they all have one thing in common: the pots are the right size relative to the plants' stage of growth (even the ones that had recently been repotted).
The fastest-growing seedlings are usually the ones that are grown in smaller pots and then repotted each time they get root bound.
Other areas to look at are: 1200w is too much light for such small plants - you may inadvertently be introducing heat stress (I'm not sure how far away from the lights they are). 600w would be much better. Even 400w - as mentioned above - if you have it.
MH is better for vegging that HPS, but there's really not that much difference that it would slow your plants down. The difference between MH and HPS can be seen mostly during flowering. Plants will veg fine under HPS, but MH has a better spectrum for the vegetative stage of growth.
Finally, once you have done all the above (drainage, aerate the soil, cut down on the light etc), try watering with a root stimulant such as rhizotonic etc. Just give them one application at the next watering to see if it helps.
Now, the way to know when to water your plants is NOT when they are so dry that they start drooping: when your plants want water, the leaves will start to stand up and point towards the sky. This is the plant's natural reaction to drying conditions: as the leaves get drier, they become lighter (and dron't doop like they do when the plant is waterlogged). But this "praying" action of the leaves also reduces the surface area of each leaf that is exposed to light (the sun) which causes evaporation.
The time to water is when the top-soil is dry (poke your finger a coupe of inches into the soil) and the plants look nice and "perky". Hope this helps.
As I mentioned earlier, there are two common things that will slow seedling growth: over-fertilising (burns the roots), and over watering (drowns the roots).
Under-fertilising is less common in soil, as potting mix etc already has lots of nutrient. It is possibile that if you use too much perlite or other innate substrate (which contains no nutrient), then your plants can suffer from a nutrient deficiency. However, this is also rare in seedlings as they don't require much nutrient until they get bigger. Plus I don't really see that with your plants - they don't look burned and they don't look like they're starving. In fact, with 20 litres of soil mix in there, they should not be suffering from a lack of nutrient.
That basically leaves you with overwatering - or lack of drainage. You can try poking holes into the soil with a stick to help aerate it and make sure you have lots of drainage holes in the bottom of your buckets so that water can drain out and air can get in.
If you have a look at all the other photos of healthy plants posted in your thread, you will see they all have one thing in common: the pots are the right size relative to the plants' stage of growth (even the ones that had recently been repotted).
The fastest-growing seedlings are usually the ones that are grown in smaller pots and then repotted each time they get root bound.
Other areas to look at are: 1200w is too much light for such small plants - you may inadvertently be introducing heat stress (I'm not sure how far away from the lights they are). 600w would be much better. Even 400w - as mentioned above - if you have it.
MH is better for vegging that HPS, but there's really not that much difference that it would slow your plants down. The difference between MH and HPS can be seen mostly during flowering. Plants will veg fine under HPS, but MH has a better spectrum for the vegetative stage of growth.
Finally, once you have done all the above (drainage, aerate the soil, cut down on the light etc), try watering with a root stimulant such as rhizotonic etc. Just give them one application at the next watering to see if it helps.
Now, the way to know when to water your plants is NOT when they are so dry that they start drooping: when your plants want water, the leaves will start to stand up and point towards the sky. This is the plant's natural reaction to drying conditions: as the leaves get drier, they become lighter (and dron't doop like they do when the plant is waterlogged). But this "praying" action of the leaves also reduces the surface area of each leaf that is exposed to light (the sun) which causes evaporation.
The time to water is when the top-soil is dry (poke your finger a coupe of inches into the soil) and the plants look nice and "perky". Hope this helps.
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Just saw this: the answer is yes. Also, what type of soil mix are you using? It looks like it has a lot of wood in it, which can tend to be a bit acidic.
I still think the large pots are your issue. What you have to remember is that once you water a large pot, there's really nowhere for the water to go. Excess is drained off, and the plants drink some, but if the plants are small, they won't drink much. What happens then is the pot remains wet - there's nowhere for the moisture to go (evaporation can be a slow process in such large pots) - and the water stagnates. The pots remain consantly wet in the middle, even if you don't water them much.
Now, the difference between large pots such as yours and growing in soil outdoors (in the ground), is that you have worms, bugs, nematodes, microbes etc constantly turning over the soil and aerating it outside, whereas your pots won't have anywhere near that soil-turning action. So again, there is nothing to disturb the soil under the surface to help aerate it - that's why you have to do it yourself by poking holes in the soil.
Keep us updated with pix if you can.
Canon
Well-Known Member
Never grew Cherry Bombs,, but here is a Cindy 99 ready for chop tomorrow. I'll get to that in a moment.
Only talking veg here....
Lights - 18 / 6, 250w MH, Fans on timer and do not run when lights are off. Temp pretty constant 70 / 74F.
Maybe you are, but if not... you may find it beneficial to run your lights during the colder period. Perhaps lights off from Noon until 4:00 pm? While I believe plants should have a "rest period",, still... maybe go 22 / 2 for the heat in veg if needed?
Water / nutes- I'll load up the nutes until I start to see tip burn,, then back off about 15%. In veg they take very little water even with my low, low, low humidity. In 3 gal. pots they may go through a 1/2 gal. watering every week to 10 days. I judge by the pot feel (weight) as to when and how much. Given your situation,, I'd probsably seriously consider adding 1/3 cup of 3% peroxide per gal. to insure oxygen at the roots. I'd certainly would flush just for a re-start to be confident I'm not loaded with salts at this point too.
Veg / flower- I like to match my veg times with flower times per strain. Just seems to work well for me in my environment. Genrally my Cindys go 6 to 8 weeks veg and after put to the screen they'll average 28 to 30 inch tall and spread to about 24 inch wide on the screen when added. I'll start training early in veg.
I keep pretty good logs on all my plants.
Here's the full "take" on the one showing.
VEG - 7 1/2 weeks, 250W MH, 18 / 6, 3 gal. pot after seedling, Jack's Chemical nutes, Pro-Tek, Cal-Mag, Soilless mix of 2 parts Pro-Mix & 1 part small Grow Stone. with 2 Tbs. Dolomite at start. I position the light (horizontal on veg) to control stretch the way I want it to finish. Training starts as soon as practical per growth. Temps constant at 70-74F.
FLOWER - 7 weeks from flip, 1K HPS 14 to 24 inch from plant. Grown V-SCROG style with bulb placement 1/3 below tip of top cola per plant height. Generally water / nute 1/2 gal. every 2 days. Nutes are substantially increased (3-4 times recommended). Water for run-off. Bloom boost added once every 2 weeks. Temps with light mid 80F, light off mid to upper 60's. 12 / 12.
Typically, I'll fill my screen and may over run a little. Generally plants are about 40" high by 30 inch wide at harvest. Typically I'll harvest 5-6 oz per plant. While not any earth shattering harvest,, it's simple, easy, and predictably consistent. Since I'm running perpetual,,, I'll harvest one every 2 weeks give or take a little. This one may be a bit light in the bud dept. as I was trying a new POS bulb that I've since tossed to the dogs.
It's difficult to stay within my state's "Legal Medical Limits". It would be so easy to over do. There are potentials for doing way better if I wasn't so concerned with "being within limits".
Hope something in there will be of help for you. Good luck & cheers.
Only talking veg here....
Lights - 18 / 6, 250w MH, Fans on timer and do not run when lights are off. Temp pretty constant 70 / 74F.
Maybe you are, but if not... you may find it beneficial to run your lights during the colder period. Perhaps lights off from Noon until 4:00 pm? While I believe plants should have a "rest period",, still... maybe go 22 / 2 for the heat in veg if needed?
Water / nutes- I'll load up the nutes until I start to see tip burn,, then back off about 15%. In veg they take very little water even with my low, low, low humidity. In 3 gal. pots they may go through a 1/2 gal. watering every week to 10 days. I judge by the pot feel (weight) as to when and how much. Given your situation,, I'd probsably seriously consider adding 1/3 cup of 3% peroxide per gal. to insure oxygen at the roots. I'd certainly would flush just for a re-start to be confident I'm not loaded with salts at this point too.
Veg / flower- I like to match my veg times with flower times per strain. Just seems to work well for me in my environment. Genrally my Cindys go 6 to 8 weeks veg and after put to the screen they'll average 28 to 30 inch tall and spread to about 24 inch wide on the screen when added. I'll start training early in veg.
I keep pretty good logs on all my plants.
Here's the full "take" on the one showing.
VEG - 7 1/2 weeks, 250W MH, 18 / 6, 3 gal. pot after seedling, Jack's Chemical nutes, Pro-Tek, Cal-Mag, Soilless mix of 2 parts Pro-Mix & 1 part small Grow Stone. with 2 Tbs. Dolomite at start. I position the light (horizontal on veg) to control stretch the way I want it to finish. Training starts as soon as practical per growth. Temps constant at 70-74F.
FLOWER - 7 weeks from flip, 1K HPS 14 to 24 inch from plant. Grown V-SCROG style with bulb placement 1/3 below tip of top cola per plant height. Generally water / nute 1/2 gal. every 2 days. Nutes are substantially increased (3-4 times recommended). Water for run-off. Bloom boost added once every 2 weeks. Temps with light mid 80F, light off mid to upper 60's. 12 / 12.
Typically, I'll fill my screen and may over run a little. Generally plants are about 40" high by 30 inch wide at harvest. Typically I'll harvest 5-6 oz per plant. While not any earth shattering harvest,, it's simple, easy, and predictably consistent. Since I'm running perpetual,,, I'll harvest one every 2 weeks give or take a little. This one may be a bit light in the bud dept. as I was trying a new POS bulb that I've since tossed to the dogs.
It's difficult to stay within my state's "Legal Medical Limits". It would be so easy to over do. There are potentials for doing way better if I wasn't so concerned with "being within limits".
Hope something in there will be of help for you. Good luck & cheers.
Webbdtoez
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the tips, guys! Im slowly letting all that info sink in.
I did aerate the soil yesterday by shoving a 1/4" plastic rod in and out of the soil, all around the plant, tried not to get too close to the stem tho. And watered each 2 cups.
Here are the girls yesterday.
I did aerate the soil yesterday by shoving a 1/4" plastic rod in and out of the soil, all around the plant, tried not to get too close to the stem tho. And watered each 2 cups.
Here are the girls yesterday.
Attachments
Canon
Well-Known Member
Tell me those are NOT the same plants as you had in post #4 on 11 - 12 - 2013 of this thread!
From the stems in those last pictures,,, they look really stressed out big time. If left to guess,,, I'd be thinking water logged & oxygen starved galore. But, colors in picture don't mean much with some lighting.
From the stems in those last pictures,,, they look really stressed out big time. If left to guess,,, I'd be thinking water logged & oxygen starved galore. But, colors in picture don't mean much with some lighting.
Webbdtoez
Well-Known Member
Sadly Canon, they are. 
I agree that they are water logged. I thought they would drain easily or the heat would ensue plenty of evaporation after they were watered. Dead wrong.
Thats not even the worst as of today.
I received a notice from my apartment complex that they are doing fire alarm checks tomorrow. Long story short, i disassembled the whole grow. Stuck the girls in a coat closet with a blanket thrown over them, along with some misc items to deter suspicion. Have no idea if they are even worth the trouble after tomorrow. Im sure this is just what they needed after recovering from weeks of water logging.(sarcastic). Sad days yall, sad days indeed.
I agree that they are water logged. I thought they would drain easily or the heat would ensue plenty of evaporation after they were watered. Dead wrong.
Thats not even the worst as of today.
I received a notice from my apartment complex that they are doing fire alarm checks tomorrow. Long story short, i disassembled the whole grow. Stuck the girls in a coat closet with a blanket thrown over them, along with some misc items to deter suspicion. Have no idea if they are even worth the trouble after tomorrow. Im sure this is just what they needed after recovering from weeks of water logging.(sarcastic). Sad days yall, sad days indeed.
Canon
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear that.
Makes them about 10 weeks now?
That Cindy should be at least 26-28 inch tall by now.
Know you'll not like hearing this,,, but the plants are indeed fucked (IMHO). It would take some good experience to make them worth growing further... and that would only be IF there was something really special about them in particular (like genetics, etc.). Even with experience,, the roots appear damaged enough where they'll probably not produce much anyways,, plus with the stress shown it's possible you'd end up with hermies in the end.
Learning from mistakes is something we've all been through. Feel you'd save yourself a lot of grief by just letting them go and starting over... with a better growing medium.
Dealt lemons? Make lemonade!
Don't know how you are at cloning,, but topping them and using the tops for clones could be a valued learning experience in that direction. With proper technique the clones could be just fine since you're replacing the root system when cloned. Hermies may be possible even with cloning... but the odds would be much, much more in your favor (with better medium).
Isn't growing addicting & fun?
Makes them about 10 weeks now?
That Cindy should be at least 26-28 inch tall by now.
Know you'll not like hearing this,,, but the plants are indeed fucked (IMHO). It would take some good experience to make them worth growing further... and that would only be IF there was something really special about them in particular (like genetics, etc.). Even with experience,, the roots appear damaged enough where they'll probably not produce much anyways,, plus with the stress shown it's possible you'd end up with hermies in the end.
Learning from mistakes is something we've all been through. Feel you'd save yourself a lot of grief by just letting them go and starting over... with a better growing medium.
Dealt lemons? Make lemonade!
Don't know how you are at cloning,, but topping them and using the tops for clones could be a valued learning experience in that direction. With proper technique the clones could be just fine since you're replacing the root system when cloned. Hermies may be possible even with cloning... but the odds would be much, much more in your favor (with better medium).
Isn't growing addicting & fun?
Canon
Well-Known Member
You do realize that by jabbing the dirt like that you were actually compacting / compressing the dirt even more for even less drainage don't you?
I often refer to that as, "Killing them with kindness".
fir3dragon
Well-Known Member
Wow looks dope man... Rep..I don't know if you've seen my set-up, but here's a glimpse if you haven't.
Thc247
Well-Known Member
