6 vero 18's heat vs 400watt hps

Goingto build a light with 6 vero 18's running at 900-1050. Probably going too use 1 driver. How is the heat off these compared to a 400w. Hps? Not sure if I will be using passive or active heat sinks yet. I have no problem hooking up an active cooling system, but to me the less equipment the better. Thanks to all those ahead of me documenting their trials and errors so others can learn. If you have a suggestion for a better project comparable in price please let me know!
Going to be in a 3x3 or less area.

go to cobkits and get one of the hlg185s on sale, run 3 1818s off it and you should be good. I like mechatronics heatsinks myself, but there are a few options as far as passive goes. Youll be 220 watts at the wall and cost u about 200. Each will be running at about 1400ma. Hes got citi v6 which are a pretty nice step up from previous gen.

What is the advantage of the citizen 1818 over the vero 18?

jeremy anderson said:

What is the advantage of the citizen 1818 over the vero 18?

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Can be driven higher with the same efficiency of a vero 18, or more efficiently at the same wattage.

Less equipment.

With a total power draw of around 200W, that's a lot less heat than a 400W HPS.
(goes for both Vero and CLU04

Ok good to know! I was going to go with the vero's because they are 12 bucks on digikey.

Also what arrangement would suggest? Triangle, or just straight bar?

jeremy anderson said:

Also what arrangement would suggest? Triangle, or just straight bar?

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I guess in a square area a triangle gives slightly more even coverage.

Nice thing about the Vero 18s is they run less than 30 volts (at 1000mA) and heat is low enough for passive.
For a 2x2 (See 5H thread) it's a decent amount of light, but for better at same price point go 048-1212s at 1000mA
they give as good or better than the Vero 29s at 1000mA. Do 6 COB combos in cobCalc (ball park figures only).

Anything you run at 1000mA will remain on the cooler side, the upper range currents put out brighter light and
are needed in larger coverage areas or to run fewer COBs based on price considerations over lighting needs...

I am an electrician apprentice by trade (3 years in) and get the technical jargon. Where I get hung up on is how everything relates to plants in a certain size area, and figuring out what product produces what compared to another. The last time I did a grow was about 10 years ago and used a 600 watt hps. Got great results, but I remember it being noisy and hot as balls. The grow is mainly for hobby purposes, but would like to also do it well as possible for my circumstances and environment.

Where can I find this cob calculator? Also for a tent this size what would you suggest for exhaust fan? It will be placed in an garage with no heat, ac, or insulation. Probably will only do grows in spring and fall, as summers average temps are in the 90's, with stretches of consecutive days in the hundreds Outside.

cobCalc is in this subcategory somewhere, but the link to the dropbox is often dead. Somebody will ask for it, and when they repost you can grab a copy. It lets you select different cobs & drive currents and see how they cover a given area.
Most recommend 35-50 watts sq ft and canopy 800-1000 PPFD as satisfactory. 3x3 - 9sq ft is 300 to 450 watts.

Can't advise on exhaust, they usually come in standard sizes by tent size probably a 6 inch run slow.

HalfBee said:

cobCalc is in this subcategory somewhere, but the link to the dropbox is often dead. Somebody will ask for it, and when they repost you can grab a copy. It lets you select different cobs & drive currents and see how they cover a given area.
Most recommend 35-50 watts sq ft and canopy 800-1000 PPFD as satisfactory. 3x3 - 9sq ft is 300 to 450 watts.

Can't advise on exhaust, they usually come in standard sizes by tent size probably a 6 inch run slow.

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Aim for 35PARW/sqft that will get you the results. The link isn't dead it's on there and there's a few links some work some don't. I can just upload it here for ease of access but it's not mine in any way.

Unless someone gets to a computer before me lol

I would highly suggest you get the data sheets from Citizen and from Bridgelux and do your own math. Real world numbers dont jive at all with what some of these guys are saying. I think maybe they are looking @ gen 5 veros when Gen 7 are the latest and greatest. Or maybe those citizen grown buds seriously fuck up ones math skillz. For example this statement is simple not true " but for better at same price point go 048-1212s at 1000mA they give as good or better than the Vero 29s at 1000mA." The CLU048-1212C4-273H5K2 gets around 128 lm/W @ 25c The Vero 29 D BXRC-27G10K0-D-7X gets 145lm/W @ 25c. So the vero not only wins but it kicks a bit of butt. You might want to learn to read the Data sheets to get the most accurate and up to date info.

JavaCo said:

I would highly suggest you get the data sheets from Citizen and from Bridgelux and do your own math. Real world numbers dont jive at all with what some of these guys are saying. I think maybe they are looking @ gen 5 veros when Gen 7 are the latest and greatest. Or maybe those citizen grown buds seriously fuck up ones math skillz. For example this statement is simple not true " but for better at same price point go 048-1212s at 1000mA they give as good or better than the Vero 29s at 1000mA." The CLU048-1212C4-273H5K2 gets around 128 lm/W @ 25c The Vero 29 D BXRC-27G10K0-D-7X gets 145lm/W @ 25c. So the vero not only wins but it kicks a bit of butt. You might want to learn to read the Data sheets to get the most accurate and up to date info.

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I thought, but nobody even mentioned the vero 29.
But then I read that post below me.

Yea.

A 1212 isn't better than a Vero 29.
1818 may be.

frica said:

I thought, but nobody even mentioned the vero 29.
But then I read that post below me.

Yea.

A 1212 isn't better than a Vero 29.
1818 may be.

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1818 wont beat it either. Really pretty close to a tie when it goes head to head with a vero 18. The Citizenwins by a couple lm/W which is close enough for me to call it a tie.

I figured out the data sheets last night. For my budget I am going to go with 1212. Now I am looking for a economical heat sink. Thanks for all the input!

CLU048-1212C4-303M2K1 is the chip I decided on. It's 149l/w

jeremy anderson said:

CLU048-1212C4-303M2K1 is the chip I decided on. It's 149l/w

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It wont retain the 149lm/W when driven @ 1.4 . Test current is 1.08amps
Also if you compair it to the cheaper vero 29 thats 80Cri and 3000k it loses the efficientcy battle 180lm/W for the birdgelux @ 85c. Thats a 30 lumen butt kicking by a BXRC-30E10K0-D-7X Driven @ 1.05 amps

JavaCo said:

For example this statement is simple not true " but for better at same price point go 048-1212s at 1000mA they give as good or better than the Vero 29s at 1000mA." The CLU048-1212C4-273H5K2 gets around 128 lm/W @ 25c The Vero 29 D BXRC-27G10K0-D-7X gets 145lm/W @ 25c. So the vero not only wins but it kicks a bit of butt. You might want to learn to read the Data sheets to get the most accurate and up to date info.

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I know, but did say it was 'ballpark figures' from cobCalc, and the chips they are pulling data from are not up to date.
Was really pointing out 1212 over Vero 18 - the ones from cobCalc are V2 citizen and Vero earlier generation.
But according to cobCalc the 1212 will give comparable performance to the Vero29 at 1050mA at half the price.
It also shows 3070 and 3590 results that are great, but at premium prices (plus holders needed etc.)

And YES... you need to do your own calculations based on data sheets to decide if you have enough.
I like them all, but for 3x3 need more COB or run them harder (based on 6 count given earlier).
It's all trade offs...

I went with Vero 18 (and 13) and that's my decision based on my area and so far results are good.
Still testing the positioning of light above canopy distance for this intensity level and can be closer than if running at higher current.

The 1212's are 12 bucks a piece compared to 24 plus for the vero 29, or the 1818. So the 1212 produces 149l/watt at 1.08, and diminishes at a higher amperage, correct?

jeremy anderson said:

The 1212's are 12 bucks a piece compared to 24 plus for the vero 29, or the 1818. So the 1212 produces 149l/watt at 1.08, and diminishes at a higher amperage, correct?

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Yeah thats correct @ 85c. To compair cobs you need to match wattage then match CRI and also temperature. Citizen does there tesing @ 85c with a referance to 25c and bridgelux is the opisite they test @ 25c and have a referance to 85c. But to compare the 1212 gen 5 to vero18 gen7 Difference is 8 lumens. 1212 @ 25 c 37.3 watts =163 lm/W Vero18 gen7 @25c and 41 watts = 155lm/W. The vero would gain a few lumens by lowering the drive current to match the wattage. So the vero gets beat by maybe 2 to 3 %. Gen 6 1212 will add a good 5 to 6 % to that. If you do go with the 1212 you might want to try to get some of those gen 6's i think they just released them or are just about to. Those will put the 1212 really close to vero 29 gen7 efficiency, at least till Bridgelux releases gen 8s