Advanced Nutrients Rhinoskin - Anybody used it?

Uncle Reefer

Well-Known Member
A quick answer, Potassium silicate is probably just as good assuming you add it first, then wait, then ph. You don't need much.


BUT the element that will help you the most is Calcium, typically you have lots in your nutes but it is the uptake that is difficult, you need amino acids for that, you can buy expensive aminos, or you can buy expensive enzymes that make aminos, or you can roll the bones and introduce microbes that will make enzymes that will made amminos.


OR you can fix your room so that you dont have to deal with these issues.

Good luck friend
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
A quick answer, Potassium silicate is probably just as good assuming you add it first, then wait, then ph. You don't need much.


BUT the element that will help you the most is Calcium, typically you have lots in your nutes but it is the uptake that is difficult, you need amino acids for that, you can buy expensive aminos, or you can buy expensive enzymes that make aminos, or you can roll the bones and introduce microbes that will make enzymes that will made amminos.


OR you can fix your room so that you dont have to deal with these issues.

Good luck friend
What issues? I've only ever used si in rooms with plants with no issues and saw clear benefits. Otherwise the results wouldn't be conclusive.
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
I would bet that you have improved your growing skills and that if you pulled it from a plant or 2 in your room you wouldn't know a difference.
At the time that I started using si I'd already been growing for about 30 years. I'm a firm believer in maintaining the approach that there's always more to learn but I'm more than confidant in my assessment of my results.
 

Uncle Reefer

Well-Known Member
At the time that I started using si I'd already been growing for about 30 years. I'm a firm believer in maintaining the approach that there's always more to learn but I'm more than confidant in my assessment of my results.
I have been growing 25 years and I keep getting better. I can only speak for me but I am never to old or experienced to learn.
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
I have been growing 25 years and I keep getting better. I can only speak for me but I am never to old or experienced to learn.
That's the way. Apply the scientific method to everything I do. I've done my side by side comparisons with si and I can say with great confidence that there is nothing I could improve on that would change my results. Sure, there are things that I could improve on, but nothing that negate the benefits I see from using si.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
No confirmation bias here. In fact, when I first started using a silica supplement, I had friends who were only partly joking about how when they got weed from me it should be increased by a ratio to account for the difference in weight from the silica.

While my overall weight increased significantly most strains were also more capable of supporting the weight too. Just because the stalks and flowers may be incorporating the extra silica at the same rate doesn't mean that the increase of weight in the buds and strength in the stalks would remain at the same ratio. To say that it would is a ridiculous assumption.

As far as claiming that the added weight is not cost effective is ridiculous. That would only be the case in an actual hydroponic scenario where you couldn't rely on soil bacteria to make the si available and so had to use the already plant available silicic acid which is insanely expensive. As far as the extra weight being "shady" I think everyone who thinks it through understands that light and fluffy buds burn up fast giving you fewer hits and less of a high and heavier denser buds burn much longer giving more hits. The extra mass from the si weight will actually make the pot burn longer and slower making for more hits. Nothing shady about that.

You need to re-read that whole post!

In over 40 years of growing cannabis.....I have never seen ANY of what you imply on that type of scale. It SURE as hell doesn't do that to field crops.... Let me re-post this bit -
BTW, even High Times states, and I quote exactly: "One thing to stress here is that silicon will not likely give a cannabis grower an increase in yield in plants that already grow in pristine conditions. Silicon supplementation may increase plant resistance to disease, fungus, insects and extreme environmental conditions. Increased resistance to stress will certainly help sick plants in a way that makes them yield more, but already healthy plants without silicon will not be too noticeably different from plants with silicon."
There has to be another explanation for what your seeing!

Silica will NOT increase bud density in the way you believe!

Increasing weight by water content or cell wall structure is not going to increase quality! By increasing weight with no corresponding increase in quality is "shady".....UNLESS it's increasing the "potential" in the plant..... That is generally a problem with your technique (fluffy or airy buds), including environmental problems.

I'm being polite as I can....at this point.
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
You need to re-read that whole post!

In over 40 years of growing cannabis.....I have never seen ANY of what you imply on that type of scale. It SURE as hell doesn't do that to field crops.... Let me re-post this bit -


There has to be another explanation for what your seeing!

Silica will NOT increase bud density in the way you believe!

Increasing weight by water content or cell wall structure is not going to increase quality! By increasing weight with no corresponding increase in quality is "shady".....UNLESS it's increasing the "potential" in the plant..... That is generally a problem with your technique (fluffy or airy buds), including environmental problems.

I'm being polite as I can....at this point.
You lost me when you started quoting high times. I consult with people with degrees in horticulture, bio-chem and farm management. They'd all disagree with your assertions.

As far as density/mass and my fluffy/airy buds due to problems with my "technique";
 

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since1991

Well-Known Member
I have been growing for a long time. I know many growers. Alot of them use potassium silicate in hydroponics. I have and sometimes still do as well. I have never...and I mean never seen or experienced myself a "significant weight increase" from it what so ever. EVER!!! And I have never heard of anyone using potassium silicate and getting a bumper bigger than normal harvest attributing it solely (or even remotely) to the use of potassium silicate as an additive.
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
I have been growing for a long time. I know many growers. Alot of them use potassium silicate in hydroponics. I have and sometimes still do. I have never...and I mean never seen "a significant yield increase" from it what so ever. EVER!!!
Potassium Silicate isn't very available to the plant without the help of soil bacteria that is absent in most hydroponic systems. For hydroponics you would need to use silicic acid which is ridiculously expensive but is readily taken up by the plant.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
Potassium Silicate isn't very available to the plant without the help of soil bacteria that is absent in most hydroponic systems. For hydroponics you would need to use silicic acid which is ridiculously expensive but is readily taken up by the plant.
Then how come I get slightly thicker stems and petioles? Slightly thicker more turgid leaf sets from the use of potassium silicate?
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Then how come I get slightly thicker stems and petioles? Slightly thicker more turgid leaf sets from the use of potassium silicate?
I didn't say you wouldn't see any difference. I'm saying that that would explain why you're not seeing a significant difference in yield.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
I didn't say you wouldn't see any difference. I'm saying that that would explain why you're not seeing a significant difference in yield.
So there is a good chance I would see a significant increase in yield by the use of silicic acid? All other factors being the same?
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
So there is a good chance I would see a significant increase in yield by the use of silicic acid? All other factors being the same?
I can't really say for sure. I've never used it. Even if it did make a significant difference there's still the question of whether or not it's worth it considering the ridiculous cost of the silicic acid. The guys that run my local shops won't even carry it.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
I can't really say for sure. I've never used it. Even if it did make a significant difference there's still the question of whether or not it's worth it considering the ridiculous cost of the silicic acid. The guys that run my local shops won't even carry it.
Ok. Thx.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
So there is a good chance I would see a significant increase in yield by the use of silicic acid? All other factors being the same?
NO.

Even though Cannabis is an "accumulator" [I list it as it's considered a "dynamic accumulator" of nutrients] (plants species relationship to Si are broken into 3 groups, Accumulators - intermediates - non accumulators), it does not increase yield weight by any "serviceable" amount from use. Vs. other "accumulators" such as grass's do. These would include things like Rice, Wheat, Rye, Oats etc. (I use a spring field fertilizing with available Si for such grains that we plant. Mostly Wheat, Rye and Oats. This is done organically). Oddly enough, tomato's are a "non accumulator" but, use of Si amendment of tomato's does increase flower and fruit set, in soils that are deficient in Si availability. For this reason, the hydro farming of tomato's, does include use of silica's to increase yields!

Why do I apply Si to grain crops (grass's)? To give the plant a stronger shoot (stem). This results in less falling over (called "Lodging") to wind or rain.

You lost me when you started quoting high times. I consult with people with degrees in horticulture, bio-chem and farm management. They'd all disagree with your assertions.

As far as density/mass and my fluffy/airy buds due to problems with my "technique";
I have an aversion to HT myself, although I have had a working relationship with them in the past.

How nice for your consulting. Your consulting with another of those now. I assure you, I am not making "assertions". I doubt very greatly, They would disagree with what I have posted. Maybe so for some "wording" but in end meaning, NOT!

In reality, the "over use" of Si in cannabis growing can make your final product harder to break apart for consumption. Even the continual use of a pH "up" product, will effect this resulting issue.
It will also be a big contributing cause of darker/heavier ash!

Do you want that?

Observation: In use of Si vs. not in cannabis growing over the years. I have found no significant increase in the ability of the plant to better hold up the fruit/flowers in heavy producing strains. They still require the same amount of support as in same strain plants not supplemented with Si. One must remember that cannabis is a broad leaf plant and not a "grass" plant.

The use of Si does increase to a point (best observed in Rice), yields in grass plants. In scientific research. It is found to be not very much at all, in by far, the vast majority of broad leaf plants!

In cannabis, it is beneficial to blocking toxic levels of aluminum and some other heavy metals in a lesser degree. Do you have high levels of heavy metals in your soils or waters? You can see why knowing your Hvy metal levels in your nutrient line can be important..eh?

Potassium Silicate isn't very available to the plant without the help of soil bacteria that is absent in most hydroponic systems. For hydroponics you would need to use silicic acid which is ridiculously expensive but is readily taken up by the plant.
NOT TRUE! You might think my wording to be harsh, it's not.

I'll post this from a another site as I'm getting tired of typing replies to this discussion. (please note, I did not say argument!)

" If you have ever grown hydroponically and thought that your plants seemed a little weaker or more susceptible than previous crops grown in soil, it may be due to a lack of Silicon.

Hydroponic feeds do not contain Silicon in any noticeable quantity, if at all. The reason for this is that for Silicon to stay soluble, it requires a high pH – greater than 7. Unfortunately it cannot be included in a normal, hydroponic two-part feed as it would react with the other components present and this would most likely lead to a nutrient deficiency

For Silicon to be used as an available additive for your plants, it needs to be kept separate from the basic feed. You could even think of it as your third part to go alongside your usual two-part feed.

Plants can only absorb Silicon in the form of monosilicic acids, these occur naturally as mineral Silicon is broken down and dissolved into water. In hydroponic applications, the most common form of Silicon additive is Potassium Silicate."

Silicic acid is simply the best available form of Si, and is the general name for a family of chemical compounds containing the element silicon attached to oxide and hydroxyl groups. It is created in a process called hydration. This occurs naturally in contact with waters. Thus, potassium silicate is effective in use with hydro methods of growing.

Let me take a moment to touch on the "resistance" effect of Si on preventing PM or bug attacks. It does but, with that said. If you had plants with and without Si supplementation. You would find that those supplemented, will succumb in to the problem in 2-3 days later then the ones not. PM is a bitch and mites will attack stressed plants because they (the plants) give off a pheromone that attracts them. With that news. It would serve you better to not have "stressed" plants. It's simple to say, "keep your plants happy and suffer less problems!"

I do not consider this as an argument, it is simply a discussion of the effective use of Si products and their relationship to cannabis growing.

You have been civil and not inflammatory/insulting or accusing. At least, I'm not going to take anything that way!

This has resulted in a quality thread on Si use....
 
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since1991

Well-Known Member
Makes my stems and leaves a little thicker. That's about it. If i miss a watering....they dont wilt as fast. Thats all. Still neex support for bud floppy strains. If i get mites...they still attack the plant no matter what. Its just silicon. When I do use it I cut it out in flower. Its just silicon. Its not all that. Thats for damn sure.
 

Gumdrawp

Well-Known Member
I'm a firm believer of using si throughout veg as a drench and foliar, and through most of flower as a drench. Combined with kelp and coconut water my plants have seen some nasty environments and came out looking great still.

That being said in a sealed room running co2 I didn't see as much of a difference as I did in a tent with poor environmental control. It most certainly *SEEMS* to give me stronger stalks in coco and hydro, less noticeable in peat or soil. It also SEEMED to maybe help slow down the stretch when I would double dose for the last week of veg and first 2 weeks of flower.

I wouldn't suggest spraying it on formed buds but I know people that have.

Personally I think silica is a lot more relevant for outdoor or non soil based grows.


Edit: just for the sake of an example I just ran a 4x4 with 3 plants in 7g smart pots and got 1.5 off of 1000w. My temps averaged mid 80s to low 90s for the last half of flower and it was almost certainly too dry for the plants but they still thrived. And I've since learned that barley teas would have helped a lot with the heat stress too.

Anyways, I'm not saying silica will increase your yields but it can definitely make your plants less likely to get stunted due to environmental stress.
 
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