AHHHHahahaha!!!

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
All the charts i posted earlier supporting 'mean' temperature rises were from NASA not Fox news Jeff! You do understand how to get a median or mean result dont you? You do understand that there are other countries in the world where the effects are already taking hold? Or are you an American who thinks Paris is the capital of Europe?
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member

Recent Warming Exceeds Temperatures of the Last Several Hundred Years
Since the 1900s global average temperature and atmospheric CO2 concentration have increased dramatically, particularly compared to their levels in the 900 preceeding years.
The rapid rise in both surface temperature and CO2 is one of the indications that humans are responsible for some of this unusual warmth.
This graph is based on data from tree rings, coral and ice cores, and historical records. It represents only the Northern Hemisphere.
Other surface temperature data sets differ somewhat from those shown here, but in all of them the modern temperatures are generally greater than during the past several hundred years.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Yes Woo, but NASA is now under suspicion for their own data.

I think it's best we scratch everything and start over. There is so much corrupted data out there now, it only confuses ppl, and the pol's aren't waiting ... they smell $$$$
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
Of course there is a lot of nonsense and hype but NASA has nothing to gain in this theatre. Their data was not produced with this argument in mind. You believe in the methane data from what you have said, so see what the same authors of that information have to say on other subjects. I believe that there are many respected scientists that have collected data because it is there job and that they are scientists, not to wave a flag proclaiming the world is coming to an end. We both know that the world is warming up, the jury is still out when it comes to the reason in my opinion though.
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
you may find this interesting CJ.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Article 2[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Runaway Methane Global Warming[/FONT]



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The accelerated global warming described in article 1 could lead to a runaway methane global warming effect due to the release of methane currently trapped in unstable methane hydrate deposits in the arctic that could be destabilised by accelerated global warming effects.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Core samples taken from old ocean sediment layers have been used to trace back in time the climate changes that have occurred over the past tens of millions of years. By analysing the incidence of different fossil shell remains of sea creatures occurring in these sediments it is possible to track the changes in the sea water temperatures and levels of atmospheric CO2 occurring at the time the shells were formed and deposited. These shells contain carbon from the CO2 in the atmosphere which was dissolved in the sea water in which the creatures lived just as takes place today.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From these records it appears that there have been short periods of only a few hundred years in the geological past when rapid increases of the Earth's temperature have occurred superimposed on top of the rise and fall of average temperatures over the longer term. For these short periods temperature rises of up to 8 degrees centigrade appear to have occurred on top of existing long term rises of 5 to 7 degrees to give temperatures up to 15 degrees centigrade warmer than today. Temperatures then fell back to the long term trend, the whole rise and fall only lasting a few hundred years.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The most likely cause of this rapid global warming over such a short period is the release of methane into the atmosphere. Methane is 60 times more powerful than CO2 as a greenhouse gas but only remains in the atmosphere for about ten years and so looses it's greenhouse effect quickly compared to CO2 which remains in the atmosphere for 100 years. CO2 would not be available in sufficient quantities to achieve the rapid warming and if CO2 was the cause then the raised temperatures would last a lot longer. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Methane hydrates occur extensively today all over the world. They consist of methane stored within unstable water bound deposits that if disturbed release the methane. They occur in major river deltas such as the Amazon delta and in old delta areas such as the Gulf of Mexico. Major rivers carry millions of tons of silt containing vegetable matter that continues to decay after the silt is deposited in the river delta. This anaerobic decay produces methane which gets trapped in the silt as methane hydrates until the conditions of water temperature and pressure change which can release the methane in vast quantities very quickly. Another form is a frozen slush/ice methane hydrate where the methane is trapped in an ice/water mixture which releases the methane when it warms up or the pressure on the ice is reduced. Frozen methane hydrates can contain 170 times their own volume of methane. These frozen hydrates occur in the seabed deposits of the Arctic Ocean.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Methane can also be trapped by permafrost layers which over-lay lower unfrozen layers of vegetable material that is decaying and producing methane which remains trapped by the frozen permafrost on top. If the permafrost layer were to melt then the methane in the layers below would escape into the atmosphere. Given the vast areas of permafrost in northern latitudes there is a significant potential for methane to be trapped that would be released if the permafrost melted as a result of global warming.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The theory for these rapid rises and falls of temperature, based on the geological records from 55 million years ago, is that gradual global warming due to some natural cause had resulted in temperatures 5 to 7 degrees centigrade higher than average ( i.e. higher than today's temperatures). At this point methane trapped in methane hydrate deposits started to be released into the atmosphere and accelerated the rate of warming. This would result in further warming releasing more methane. As the atmosphere warmed different types of methane deposits would start to be released and so a cycle of methane release leading to increased warming leading to more methane release from other areas of methane deposits elsewhere in the world would become established as global warming effected different areas of the world. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is an intriguing photograph of what appears to be a methane plume coming up out of the Arctic ice sheet which indicates that the phenomenon described above can occur. There have also been incidences of oil drilling inadvertently triggering large releases of methane from hydrate deposits. One theory to explain the loss of ships in the so called Bermuda triangle is that they have been engulfed in a sudden methane release which reduces the buoyancy of the sea water so that the ship sinks. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, does methane pose a threat today? Let us review the situation. We know there are extensive methane hydrate and permafrost deposits all around the world. We have evidence that we are at the beginning of a period of global warming that is probably being made worse by the continuing build up of CO2 in the atmosphere due to fossil fuel burning. Recent computer modelling incorporating the feed back effects of global warming that has already occurred suggests that by about 2050 we may start to loose the beneficial effects of the Amazon rain forest as a carbon sink. This could lead to temperature rises of 5 to 8 degrees centigrade by 2100. This would be uncharted territory and no one really knows at present how the world's environmental systems would change but we now have the evidence from the geological past. On the basis of this evidence global warming can lead to methane releases which once started would escalate. This would be the worst possible thing to happen because once started there would be no way of stopping a runaway methane global warming event. We CAN reduce our CO2 emissions from fossil fuels but we COULD NOT reduce methane emissions once they started, huge natural forces would take over and change our world. This would probably result in the melting of the Antarctic icecap which would raise sea levels by 50 metres and would completely change the climates of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So what should we do? We should be careful and not risk starting the sequence events described above. To do this we must reduce total CO2 emissions from now onwards and take measures to protect carbon sinks such as the Amazon rainforest. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is the third of this series of articles describing scenarios resulting from CO2 induced global warming over the next100 years. If we all carry on burning so much fossil fuel as we do now we will be running the risk of starting an unstoppable runaway methane global warming event within the foreseeable future. Only major absolute reductions in CO2 emissions NOW will avoid this risk, hence the need for Hydrogen NOW! [/FONT]

 

Spitzered

Well-Known Member

( view full size map)
[SIZE=+1]The World 18,000 Years Ago[/SIZE] Before "global warming" started 18,000 years ago most of the earth was a frozen and arid wasteland. Over half of earth 's surface was covered by glaciers or extreme desert. Forests were rare.
Not a very fun place to live.

(view full size map)
[SIZE=+1]Our Present World[/SIZE] "Global warming" over the last 15,000 years has changed our world from an ice box to a garden. Today extreme deserts and glaciers have largely given way to grasslands, woodlands, and forests.
Wish it could last forever, but . . . .


 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Of course there is a lot of nonsense and hype but NASA has nothing to gain in this theatre. Their data was not produced with this argument in mind. You believe in the methane data from what you have said, so see what the same authors of that information have to say on other subjects. I believe that there are many respected scientists that have collected data because it is there job and that they are scientists, not to wave a flag proclaiming the world is coming to an end. We both know that the world is warming up, the jury is still out when it comes to the reason in my opinion though.




why is the US buried in snow, TODAY? :wall:

you didn't click my link, did you? :sad:
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
Sorry faded i missed your post, but in answer all I can say is that global warming/climate change seems to be causing greater extremes in weather but most are records favouring the warmer side of things.
For North America we have many more hotspots than for some other regions of the world, although impact studies have been emerging in larger numbers in recent years from previously under-studied regions. This higher density of early warning signs in the US and Canada is due in part to the fact that these regions have more readily accessible climatic data and more comprehensive programs to monitor and study environmental change, in part to the disproportionate warming that has been observed over the mid-to-high-latitude continents compared to other regions during the last century, and in part to capture the attention of North Americans who need to take action now to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Fingerprints


4. Edmonton, Canada -- Warmest summer on record, 1998. Temperatures were more than 5.4�F (3�C) higher than the 116-year average.
7. Glasgow, Montana -- No sub-zero days, 1997. For the first time ever, temperatures remained above 0�F (-17.8�C) in December. The average temperature was 10.9�F (6�C) above normal.
8. Little Rock, Arkansas -- Hottest May on record, 1998.
9. Texas -- Deadly heat wave, summer 1998. Heat claimed more than 100 lives in the region. Dallas temperatures were over 100�F (37.8�C) for 15 straight days.
10. Florida -- June heat wave, 1998. Melbourne endured 24 days above 95�F (35�C); nighttime temperatures in Tampa remained above 80�F (26.6�C) for 12 days.
11. USA -- Late fall heat wave 1998. An unprecedented autumn heat wave from mid-November to early December broke or tied more than 700 daily-high temperature records from the Rockies to the East Coast. Temperatures rose into the 70�F (20�C) as far north as South Dakota and Maine.
12. Eastern USA -- July heat wave, 1999. More than 250 people died as a result of a heat wave that gripped much of the eastern two-thirds of the country. Heat indices of over 100�F (37.8�C) were common across the southern and central plains, reaching a record 119�F (48.3�C) in Chicago.
13. New York City -- Record heat, July 1999. New York City had its warmest and driest July on record, with temperatures climbing above 95�F (35�C) for 11 days -- the most ever in a single month.
39. Chesapeake Bay -- Marsh and island loss. The current rate of a sea-level rise is three times the historical rate and appears to be accelerating. Since 1938, about one-third of the marsh at Blackwater National Wildlife Refuge has been submerged.
40. Bermuda -- Dying mangroves. Rising sea level is leading to saltwater inundation of coastal mangrove forests.
42. Hawaii -- Beach loss. Sea-level rise at Waimea Bay, along with coastal development, has contributed to considerable beach loss over the past 90 years.
65. Glacier National Park, Montana -- All glaciers in the park will be gone by 2070 if retreat continues at its current rate.
68. Interior Alaska -- Permafrost thawing. Permafrost thawing is causing the ground to subside 16-33 feet (4.9-10 m) in parts of interior Alaska. The permafrost surface has warmed by about 3.5�F (1.9�C) since the 1960's.
69. Barrow, Alaska -- Less snow in summer. Summer days without snow have increased from fewer than 80 in the 1950's to more than 100 in the 1990's.
71. Bering Sea -- Reduced sea ice. Sea-ice extent has shrunk by about 5 percent over the past 40 years. 72. Arctic Ocean -- Shrinking sea ice. The area covered by sea ice declined by about 6 percent from 1978 to 1995.
135. Canadian Rockies - Disappearing glaciers. The Athabasca Glacier has retreated one-third of a mile (0.5 km) in the last 60 years and has thinned dramatically since the 1950s-60s. In British Columbia the Wedgemont Glacier has retreated hundreds of meters since 1979, as the climate has warmed at a rate of 2�F (1.1�C) per century, twice the global average.
136. Alaska - Increasing rate of retreat. A study of 67 glaciers shows that between the mid-1950s and mid-1990s the glaciers thinned by an average of about 1.6 feet (0.5 m) per year. Repeat measurements on 28 of those glaciers show that from the mid-1990s to 2000-2001 the rate of thinning had increased to nearly 6 feet (1.8 m) per year. Alaska has experienced a rapid warming since the 1960s. Annual average temperatures have warmed up to 1.8�F (1�C) per decade over the last three decades, and winter warming has been as high as 3�F (2�C) per decade.



Harbingers


16. Mexico -- Dengue fever spreads to higher elevations. Dengue fever has spread above its former elevation limit of 3,300 feet (1,006 m) and has appeared at 5,600 feet (1,707 m).
19. Central America -- Dengue fever spreads to higher elevations. Dengue fever is spreading above its former limit of 3,300 feet (1,006 m) and has been reported above 4,000 feet (1,219 m).
23. Lake Mendota, Wisconsin -- Fewer days of ice cover. The number of days per year with ice cover has decreased by 22 percent since the mid-1800s.
24. Mirror Lake, New Hampshire -- Earlier spring ice-out. The ice-covered period has declined by about half a day per year during the past 30 years.
25. Nenana, Alaska -- Early river thaw. During 82 years on record, four out of the five earliest thaws on the Tanana River occurred in the 1990's.
26. Washington, D.C. -- Cherry trees blossoming earlier. Average peak bloom from 1970-1999 came April 3, compared to April 5 from 1921-1970.
28. California -- Butterfly range shift. Edith's Checkerspot Butterfly has been disappearing from the lower elevations and southern limits of its range.
31. Olympic Mountains, Washington -- Forest invasion of alpine meadow. Sub-alpine forest has invaded higher-elevation alpine meadows, partly in response to warmer temperatures.
33. Alaska -- Sea bird population decline. The black guillemot population is declining from 1990 levels because melting sea ice has increased the distance the birds must fly to forage for food and reduced the number of resting sites available.
34. Canadian Arctic -- Caribou die-offs. Peary caribou have declined from 24,000 in 1961 to perhaps as few as 1,100 in 1997, mostly because of major die-offs that have occurred in recent years after heavy snowfalls and freezing rain covered the animals' food supply.
35. Monterey Bay , California -- Shoreline sea life shifting northwards. Changes in invertebrate species such as limpets, snails, and sea stars in the 60-year period between 1931-1933 and 1993-1994 indicate that species' ranges are shifting northwards, probably in response to warmer ocean and air temperatures.
36. Monteverde Cloud Forest, Costa Rica -- Disappearing frogs and toads. A reduction in dry-seson mists due to warmer Pacific ocean temperatures has beenlinked to disappearances of 20 species of frogs and toads, upward shifts in the ranges of mountain birds, and declines in lizard populations.
38. U.S. West Coast -- Sea bird population decline. A decline of about 90 percent in sooty shearwaters from 1987 to 1994 corresponds to a warming of the California Current of about 1.4�F (0.78�C).
46. Pacific Ocean, Mexico -- Coral reef bleaching.
53. Caribbean -- Coral reeef bleaching.
54. Florida Keys and Bahamas -- Coral reef bleaching.
55. Bermuda -- Coral reef bleaching.
76. New England -- Double normal rainfall, June 1998. Rainfall in Boston on June 13-14 broke a 117-year-old record, closing Logan Airport and two interstate roads. Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts each received more than double their normal monthly rainfall.
78. Black Hills, South Dakota -- Record snowfall, 1998. At the end of February, the Black Hills received 102.4 inches (260 cm) of snow in five days, almost twice as much snow as the previous single-storm record for the state.
79. Texas -- Record downpours, 1998. Severe flooding in southeast Texas from two heavy rain storms with 10-20 inch (25.4-50.8 cm) rainfall totals caused $1 billion in damage and 31 deaths.
80. Santa Barbara, California -- Wettest month on record, 1998. 21.74 inches (55.22 cm) of rain fell in February, the most rain in a month since record keeping began.
81. Mount Baker, Washington -- World record snowfall, 1999. 1,140 inches (2,896 cm) of snow fell between November 1998 and the end of June 1999, a world record for most snowfall in a single winter season.
82. Florida -- Worst wildfires in 50 years, 1998. Fires burned 485,000 acres (196,272 hectares) and destroyed more than 300 homes and structures.
84. Florida, Texas, Louisiana -- Driest period in 104 years, April-June 1998. San Antonio received only 8 percent of its normal rainfall in May. New Orleans suffered its driest and hottest May in history.
85. Mexico -- Worst fire season ever, 1998. 1.25 million acres burned during a severe drought. Smoke reaching Texas triggered a statewide health alert.
86. Nicaragua -- 2.2 million acres (890,308 hectares) burned, 1998. Over 15,000 fires burned in 1998, and the blazing acreage included protected lands in the Bosawas Biosphere Reserve. 89. Eastern USA -- Driest growing season on record, 1999. The period from April-July 1999 was the driest in 105 years of record-keeping in New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, and Rhode Island. Agricultural disaster areas were declared in fifteen states, with losses in West Virginia alone expected to exceed $80 million.
102. North America - Genetic adaptation to global warming in mosquito. Ecologists have identified the first genetic adaptation to global warming in the North American mosquito Wyeomyia smithii. Modern mosquitoes wait nine days more than their ancestors did 30 years ago before they begin their winter dormancy, with warmer autumns being the most likely cause. Higher temperatures, enhancing mosquito survival rates, population growth and biting rates, can increase the risk of disease transmission.
109. Colorado - Earlier emergence from hibernation. Marmots are emerging from hibernation on average 23 days earlier than 23 years ago. This coincides with an increase in average May temperatures of about 1.8�F (1�C) over the same time period.
110. Southeast Arizona - Earlier egg-laying. Mexican jays are laying eggs 10 days earlier than in 1971. The earlier breeding coincides with a nearly 5�F (2.8�C) increase in average nighttime temperatures from 1971 to 1998.
114. Alaska - Changing vegetation patterns. Comparison of photographs taken in 1948-50 to those taken in 1999-2000 of the area between the Brooks Range and the Arctic coast show an increase in shrub abundance in tundra areas, and an increase in the extent and density of spruce forest along the treeline. The increased vegetation growth is attributed to increasing air temperatures in Alaska, on average 1.8�F (1�C) per decade over the last three decades.
115. Western Hudson Bay, Canada - Stressed Polar Bears. Decreased weight in adult polar bears and a decline in birthrate since the early 1980s has been attributed to the earlier spring breakup of sea ice. Rising spring temperatures have shortened the spring hunting season by two weeks over the last two decades.
116. Banks Island, Canada - Expanded Ranges. The Inuit now regularly see species common much further south that previously were never seen on the island, such as robins and barn swallows. Thunder and lightning, never before recorded in Inuit oral history, have also been reported.
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
Yes I understand your point, the last 2 winters here have been very bad, but they are more noticeable as we have had so many warm ones. In the 50's and 60's the snowfall was considerable every winter, but from about the 70's onwards it is actually rare now. The only ski resort in Scotland is suffering terribly due to the lack of snow. Ironically though they are suffering terribly with avalanches this winter and this Dec was the coldest of the decade...
 

ViRedd

New Member
Talked to a friend living in Minnesota a couple of nights ago. 20 degrees and eight inches of snowfall that night.
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
I live at sea level 1km away from the sea and we have had inches of snow laying for up to 10 days 3 times since Feb. In Dec the average temp was 2 degrees c with a low of -12 degrees c. That is at sea level!
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Let's just all calm down and admit that weather isn't a science, no matter how many graphs are posted and how many hockey sticks are "invented".

We need to take a step back and reexamine all the data and decide which is political and which is verifiable.

Then proceed in a normal fashion, without all the hysteria.
 
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