America still love's Trump

hanimmal said:

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1) We don't get more than what we put in. Capitalism is a game. Even losers are winners, if you have enough capital. Every cycle we get less output. In my view, capital to gain a resource is wrong. Resources should be preserved. Capitalism has to constantly spend, and be kept track of, which is another real resource waste to preserve a fake one.

4 & 5) Both Republicans and Democrats prey on the weaker. I don't like either, and don't subscribe to the view of "lesser of two evils." Hillary was just as scummy in some ways, and worse than Trump in others. It's worthless for me to figure out a Nash Equilibrium for a game I don't play anyway.

9) It does cause the rich to get richer. The poor are temporarily fooled into thinking they're better off when that's not true at all, and don't fight back. Like when Bernie Sanders made Amazon pay for their greed with better pay, but all it did was cause them to fire employees or give the current ones less hours. Yet, Bernie pretends he's some sort of hero. How do we know he wasn't working behind closed doors with Jeff Bezos and that wasn't a big scam he paid Bernie to help him with?

That's the first time I've ever been called wealthy. I'm just a starving artist working pay check to pay check whenever someone needs me. I try not to think about my ideals when it comes to commerce as Grandpappy called it, and mind my business in that regard. Things just get too complicated otherwise and are a distraction to my ultimate goals.

I just hope I'm remembered when I kick the bucket. That's all I really care about.

Oh btw, it's "funnily enough." Using, "funny enough," is grammatically incorrect. Funny is a noun, what you want is an adverb. It might sound weird, but English is a screwed up language.

Communist Dreamer said:

1) We don't get more than what we put in. Capitalism is a game. Even losers are winners, if you have enough capital. Every cycle we get less output. In my view, capital to gain a resource is wrong. Resources should be preserved. Capitalism has to constantly spend, and be kept track of, which is another real resource wasting to preserve a fake one.

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I think this doesn't make sense, mind using an example please.

Communist Dreamer said:

4 & 5) Both Republicans and Democrats prey on the weaker. I don't like either, and don't subscribe to the view of "lesser of two evils." Hillary was just as scummy in some ways, and worse than other. It's worthless for me to figure out a Nash Equilibrium for a game I don't play anyway.

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What you might try to understand is that over the last decades Hillary Clinton was trolled hard by the Republicans and later by the Russians to trick everyone into believing the worst about Hillary so that they could push the 'both sides' con.

Communist Dreamer said:

9) It does cause the rich to get richer. The poor are temporarily fooled into thinking they're better off when that's not true at all, and don't fight back. Like when Bernie Sanders made Amazon pay for their greed with better pay, but all it did was cause them to fire employees or give the current ones less hours. Yet, Bernie pretends he's some sort of hero. How do we know he wasn't working behind closed doors with Jeff Bezos and that wasn't a big scam he paid Bernie to help him with?

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What causes the rich to get richer is that they reinvest their money so that it works for them by helping other people who have a idea and need the funding to make it reality.

Idk what you mean by the poor. but I don't think Bezos would have needed anyones help to fire people in his own company.

Communist Dreamer said:

That's the first time I've ever been called wealthy. I'm just a starving artist working pay check to pay check whenever someone needs me. I try not to think about my ideals when it comes to commerce as Grandpappy called it, and mind my business in that regard. Things just get to complicated otherwise and are a distraction to my ultimate goals.

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If you are able to live a life to call yourself a starving artist I do not consider you poor. I was just pointing out that it is easy to forget the power dynamics on a smaller scale is the same as a larger scale.

Communist Dreamer said:

I just hope I'm remembered when I kick the bucket. That's all I really care about.

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I aim a bit lower, I just hope I don't go screaming.

Ok example time.
In a resource based economy, what's needed is based upon a what resources we have available, and how best to use them.

In a Capitalist based economy, those with the most capital want to preserve their capital, the resources are just a means to an end. Rather than finding the most efficient use of resources, they use the most efficient resources capital can acquire, even if that means a less efficient use of resources.

Meanwhile commerce says it's ok for me to be without elec. on the coldest day of the year.

So much winning.

DaFreak said:

Because nobody has heard that line before. Please make the world a better place and never repeat that stupid quote again. It's nonsense. 2 in the hand better than one in the bush.

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Apparently you haven't. Did you ever make a mistake? Did you learn from it? It works that way for countries too, they often amend their constitutions and pass new laws, just like America will do. Trump will be a bad memory soon enough and when he's dead or in prison he will be off twitter, in fact the judge(s) who will preside over his case(s) are learning right now and will muzzle Donald as soon as the trial begins. They will know that that will have to gag him just like Roger Stone, they learn from experience, you should too.

knucklehead bob said:

United States currency(Petro Dollar) is backed with the barrel of a gun & the threat of death & destruction , that is all .

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Good enough for me

DIY-HP-LED said:

Apparently you haven't. Did you ever make a mistake? Did you learn from it? It works that way for countries too, they often amend their constitutions and pass new laws, just like America will do. Trump will be a bad memory soon enough and when he's dead or in prison he will be off twitter, in fact the judge(s) who will preside over his case(s) are learning right now and will muzzle Donald as soon as the trial begins. They will know that that will have to gag him just like Roger Stone, they learn from experience, you should too.

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Complete nonsense. History is not taught so people learn from mistakes

Communist Dreamer said:

Maybe I've failed with you, but there's more communists in America than ever, when at one time just being accused landed you in prison. Now you can be one of those freaks besides the Jehovah's Witness preaching the wonders of communism at the court house, and neither of you get locked up.
70 years ago neither of those things was true.
Gay was considered a mental illness, now we got marriage rights.
We didn't get those rights from voting, we tried. California voted against same sex marriage.
But those rights can just as easily get taken away.
All it takes is for Trump to get in another time. RGB dies along with another lefty judge, bam, no more same sex marriage, no more Roe V Wade, no more civil rights. All those gone.
Such a system to give and take basic human rights shouldn't exist.
If we can't use our democracy properly, we deserve it taken away.
Technology is our only hope.
But it must be an open platform, like Wikipedia, etc. The whole decision chain can't be closed, everyone must have a say.
The definition of greed is known by everyone, but people do it anyway because they can get away with it.
We can't let that happen anymore.
Society must be resource base, not that they're an after thought of a fiat capital based economy.

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Declarative statements fail to convince. I think I'm going to put you on ignore, tty.

DaFreak said:

Complete nonsense. History is not taught so people learn from mistakes

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History is taught for a variety of reasons and some people do learn lessons from it, they often end up running countries and employ those lessons to make changes. Take Trump's treason and Russian interference in the American election for instance, lessons are being learned and changes will be made. H.R.-1 for instance is the result of such a process and will remove the republicans unfair advantages and new gun laws will help to correct legislative mistakes. Racism is now widely seen as a national security threat thanks to Trump and new hate speech and crime laws will treat it as such, lessons learned and changes will be made.

Fogdog said:

Declarative statements fail to convince. I think I'm going to put you on ignore, tty.

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Awe shucks. Bye!

MidwestGorilla219 said:

It's public record dude and many news channels have talked about it. Oh that's right we act like children here I forget, don't like something then it's not true. Pathetic.

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It was a joke, so lighten up ya hoosier!

Communist Dreamer said:

Ok example time.
In a resource based economy, what's needed is based upon a what resources we have available, and how best to use them.

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Sounds good, but who says what is needed based on those resources, and who decides how best to use them?

Communist Dreamer said:

In a Capitalist based economy, those with the most capital want to preserve their capital, the resources are just a means to an end. Rather than finding the most efficient use of resources, they use the most efficient resources capital can acquire, even if that means a less efficient use of resources.

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When you say 'capital' what do you mean? Are you talking business, or just in general.

Like as a person, I want to keep my house, my access to cars, food, bills for electricity/water/etc, so do you mean that is capital for a person, I can buy that. Nobody wants to lose those things.

The problem I see with your system is innovation. The soviets proved that when people don't have a reason to do more than what they are told to do that is about all you will get from their production.

hanimmal said:

Sounds good, but who says what is needed based on those resources, and who decides how best to use them?

When you say 'capital' what do you mean? Are you talking business, or just in general.

Like as a person, I want to keep my house, my access to cars, food, bills for electricity/water/etc, so do you mean that is capital for a person, I can buy that. Nobody wants to lose those things.

The problem I see with your system is innovation. The soviets proved that when people don't have a reason to do more than what they are told to do that is about all you will get from their production.

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The workers and society at large get to decide, who are most affected, not the greedy capitalist.

From Das Kapital:
Capital cannot be created from circulation because equal exchange of commodities creates no surplus value and unequal exchange of commodities changes the distribution of wealth, but it still does not produce surplus-value. Capital cannot be created without circulation either because labor creates value within the general formula. Thus, Marx writes that "t must have its origin both in circulation and not in circulation". However, a "double result" remains, namely that the capitalist must buy commodities at their value, sell them at their value and yet conclude the process with more money than at the beginning. The profit seemingly originates both inside and outside the general formula.

Back in the late 90s there was this idea during the dot com boom, everyone would work more at home, and not have to commute, called telecommuting. That never came about because managers like the idea of surplus-value, where they see the employee toiling and suffering in a cubicle.

According to Marx's theory, surplus value is equal to the new value created by workers in excess of their own labor-cost, which is appropriated by the capitalist as profit when products are sold.

Communist Dreamer said:

The workers and society at large get to decide

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That is just capitalism. We the people. With every purchase we make we are voting with our dollars. If we decide to not be political and just look for the best deals, the individual can make that decision, but people can also decide to buy what that guy is selling or not, validating (or not) their decision on what is best.

Pollution needs to be ended and we need to socialize things like cleaning up our globe, that is an area that government is better at directing, large public works, when they start to try to micromanage individuals is when they go too far and it has never worked out, we are not ants.

Communist Dreamer said:

Back in the late 90s there was this idea during the dot com boom, everyone would work more at home, and not have to commute, called telecommuting. That never came about because managers like the idea of surplus-value, where they see the employee toiling and suffering in a cubicle.

According to Marx's theory, surplus value is equal to the new value created by workers in excess of their own labor-cost, which is appropriated by the capitalist as profit when products are sold.

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I try to not decide that I know what others are thinking with as much certainty as you seem to possess. I would offer that the people in charge of businesses over the last 30 years did not have the benefit of growing up with the connectivity that we have today. As people around 50 today start to retire is when you will see the last of the people who didn't have internet in education. Those are the generations that will truly be able to grasp the ability to not have to travel everywhere when they could just look at it online and finally release us from being confined to our employers eyeballs.

Any economic concept invented before computers is a dinosaur and should just be used as history of economics or back drop to how the formulas today are derived. There is some great rule of thumbs and guidance to better choices, but the industrial age was too dirty. We need to be smarter with our decisions, but that doesn't mean we need a overseer to tell us what we can have/earn.

@hanimmal We have those things despite Capitalism, rather than because of. Sometimes we get lucky and have "good" boss/master that we work for.
Technically Capitalism is amoral, not immoral. That's the very problem.
Capitalism lacks morals, and without a system of morality in place, those with the most money buy their way to what's moral, and try to convince us of their morals, through psyops, or as they like to call their marketing department; which also includes the MSM, etc.
As we become more and more secular, we need to develop a replacement global community religion once held.
I'm of the opinion why communism has failed before is it was too atheistic.
People need freedom of, along with protection from those who would use their freedom as a means to exploit.
Another problem is alienation, which fuels our depression and feeling of helplessness in capitalistic countries especially.
While Marx described these problems, he came to the wrong conclusion.
There's more great thinkers these days. We can't hold Marx as some sort of god or prophet. He was just a human too, from a time before the new problems that exist today. So of course even if he was completely correct about his time, which I don't believe either, his writings definitely conflict with the problems of today.

Communist Dreamer said:

@hanimmal We have those things despite Capitalism, rather than because of. Sometimes we get lucky and have "good" boss/master that we work for.
Technically Capitalism is amoral, not immoral. That's the very problem.
Capitalism lacks morals, and without a system of morality in place, those with the most money buy their way to what's moral, and try to convince us of their morals, through psyops, or as they like to call their marketing department; which also includes the MSM, etc.
As we become more and more secular, we need to develop a replacement global community religion once held.
I'm of the opinion why communism has failed before is it was too atheistic.
People need freedom of, along with protection from those who would use their freedom as a means to exploit.
Another problem is alienation, which fuels our depression and feeling of helplessness in capitalistic countries especially.
While Marx described these problems, he came to the wrong conclusion.
There's more great thinkers these days. We can't hold Marx as some sort of god or prophet. He was just a human too, from a time before the new problems that exist today. So of course even if he was completely correct about his time, which I don't believe either, his writings definitely conflict with the problems of today.

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I read a whole lot of supposition and submission in what you are talking about. Humanity has done some absolutely amazing things and every attempt to stop it has ended in some truly horrific events.