America still love's Trump

DaFreak said:

We won't let people drive without passing a test because that would be dangerous, but we got problems with giving idiots a test before they get a say in controlling a country with nuclear weapons? lol

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How I see it, we as a whole don't have enough self restraint to handle democracy and will only vote for our own selfish needs. If that's not the case, we wouldn't need democracy in the first place.
Unless we can come up with a system of governance that eliminates all greed, and work towards that goal, we're just on a slow road or nuclear war away from extinction.

Jimdamick said:

I just wish that he would have entered it sooner than later.
He's an intelligent man, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think that a Jewish billionaire from NY is going to win.
But, who knows?
The country elected the billionaire (supposedly) Son of Satan from NY last time, so who the fuck knows anymore

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Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most likely we'll have another four years of Trump. The only person who could beat him is, you're right, another billionaire, Oprah Winfrey.
But she refuses to run, and Trump brags he knows some dirt on her as the reason why.
So like you said, who knows anymore.

DaFreak said:

I don't decide anything, the government would. How about we start with the same test they give immigrants to become citizens? That is where I might start.

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How about no

I believe in capitalism with socialist programs that help the poor and limit the power of the rich, but communism...? No thanks, I'm not going down that road.

Communist Dreamer said:

Who said I was one? I'm a communist. My online handle says so. How much more clear do I have to be?
Also I wasn't talking to you, nor about anything to do with Democrats. Did you have this problem in school as a kid too?

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OK, glad to hear you don't actually want to make any changes? Sort of amused at how you were talking to yourself on this forum. Not surprised though. I occasionally walk past people who talk to themselves but it's usually obvious that they are not all there.

So, tell me, where in the world does a country or society exist or ever has existed that lived according to your ideals?

Fogdog said:

OK, glad to hear you don't actually want to make any changes? Sort of amused at how you were talking to yourself on this forum. Not surprised though. I occasionally walk past people who talk to themselves but it's usually obvious that they are not all there.

So, tell me, where in the world does a country or society exist or ever has existed that lived according to your ideals?

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We make changes as a people, not through voting for mini dictators, who we call representatives. Change has never come about that way. Our country was founded on revolution.
Change comes by action. Pulling a handle at the voting box is no different than thinking one can become rich by pulling the handle of a slot machine.
It means going to rallies and protesting. Writing articles about your convictions. Being a foot soldier and going door to door letting people know. That sort of thing.

DaFreak said:

I will put it another way that will make it sound better to you...giving the right to vote to qualified people. Republicans want to take away the right based on color. Not the same thing. The best solution is to educate the masses. But when idiots are weaponized we need to think of solutions even if they are ugly.

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Republicans are Gerrymandering in states that they control to disenfranchise Democrats.

Point me to a country that tests its people to qualify for voting? I'd like to see a representative example.

Communist Dreamer said:

We make changes as a people, not through voting for mini dictators, who we call representatives. Change has never come about that way. Our country was founded on revolution.
Change comes by action. Pulling a handle at the voting box is no different than thinking one can become rich by pulling the handle of a slot machine.
It means going to rallies and protesting. Writing articles about your convictions. Being a foot soldier and going door to door letting people know. That sort of thing.

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So this socialist country you are talking about. Where is there a practical example of what you describe? The reason I ask is because socialism as you describe -- I'm only aware of where it has failed. Why do you think it would work if it has never worked before?

Fogdog said:

So this socialist country you are talking about. Where is there a practical example of what you describe? The reason I ask is because socialism as you describe -- I'm only aware of where it has failed. Why do you think it would work if it has never worked before?

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Our ideals for this country were never done before, and they too failed. Are you suggesting we give up altogether since we seem to always fail?
That's not good logic.
India did what I said, and it paid off, sort of, at least they're free of British rule. Taiwan did what you suggest, and they're now back as part of authoritarian China.
As to why I think it would work now when it didn't before, technology. People are greedy. When it was tried before, they didn't have the same toolset which is now available.
Another difference is we're the only true super power who's left. We don't have anything to prove to the rest of the world like they did then, other than to our own people. There's no more cold war.

Communist Dreamer said:

Our ideals for this country were never done before, and they too failed. Are you suggesting we give up altogether since we seem to always fail?
That's not good logic.
India did what I said, and it paid off, sort of, at least they're free of British rule. Taiwan did what you suggest, and they're now back as part of authoritarian China.
As to why I think it would work now when it didn't before, technology. People are greedy. When it was tried before, they didn't have the same toolset which is now available.
Another difference is we're the only true super power who's left. We don't have anything to prove to the rest of the world like they did then, other than to our own people. There's no more cold war.

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What smells like horseshit

UncleBuck said:

What smells like horseshit

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Are we playing Jeopardy! now?
If so, I'll take Stupid Americans, for $1,000, Alex, to finish the category.
But if you ever decide to play in the real world, I'm game for that too. Just ask a real question.

Fogdog said:

Republicans are Gerrymandering in states that they control to disenfranchise Democrats.

Point me to a country that tests its people to qualify for voting? I'd like to see a representative example.

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You’d rather be ruled by the elites then? That’s what we have now.

Ever trusting polls again in this day and age...

DaFreak said:

You’d rather be ruled by the elites then? That’s what we have now.

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So, if it's all so rational and such there should be a country that you can point to that is an example of the kind of system you propose. I'm not aware of any. Tell me then, which country are you referring to when you describe a socialist nation? Any nation in history would do. One that managed to defend itself too and where its people thrived if that's not too high of a bar to clear.

kotobide said:

Ever trusting polls again in this day and age...

View attachment 4427564

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OK, so it's clear that you probably should refer to polls in your discussions. Totally not one of your strengths.

Fogdog said:

So, if it's all so rational and such there should be a country that you can point to that is an example of the kind of system you propose. I'm not aware of any. Tell me then, which country are you referring to when you describe a socialist nation? Any nation in history would do. One that managed to defend itself too and where its people thrived if that's not too high of a bar to clear.

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My goal is to become such a radical as to do something never done before. If we can prove "the poor will always be amongst us," wrong, those Bible thumping twerps will have nothing left to stand upon anymore, ever again. Besides having the satisfaction of them getting extremely pissed, the world is a better place. It's a win win for everyone.
What's wrong with such a dream?

Communist Dreamer said:

Our ideals for this country were never done before, and they too failed. Are you suggesting we give up altogether since we seem to always fail?
That's not good logic.
India did what I said, and it paid off, sort of, at least they're free of British rule. Taiwan did what you suggest, and they're now back as part of authoritarian China.
As to why I think it would work now when it didn't before, technology. People are greedy. When it was tried before, they didn't have the same toolset which is now available.
Another difference is we're the only true super power who's left. We don't have anything to prove to the rest of the world like they did then, other than to our own people. There's no more cold war.

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You refer to an economic-political system entirely owned by the workers though. Zero capitalism. Neither India or Taiwan successfully carried that off If they actually tried to do so, I'm not aware. China was never what you say. It was always a tops-down economy run by a dictator.

Greed is present in primates that diverged from the human tree long ago. In order for it to persist in diverse species across hundreds of millions of years of evolution it could very well be important to the survival of a species. Why wouldn't we learn how to accommodate it rather than rub it out? This is my problem with you armchair philosophers. You ignore human nature as if it were plastic. Its not. As such, I don't believe that we know enough to re-write human society into a new form. We might one day know enough but right now, Communism, Socialism, Capitalism in all their pure forms of are bunk.

Regarding technology, yes, China is showing us how a government can use it to control its people. It's not a very attractive aspect of their current form of government. I reject what they are doing completely.

Communist Dreamer said:

My goal is to become such a radical as to do something never done before. If we can prove "the poor will always be amongst us," wrong, those Bible thumping twerps will have nothing left to stand upon anymore, ever again. Besides having the satisfaction of them getting extremely pissed, the world is a better place. It's a win win for everyone.
What's wrong with such a dream?

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Go ahead and knock yourself out. I don't believe that you have all the answers. Rather than tell people what to do. Try convincing them. Thus far you've failed miserably.

Communist Dreamer said:

We make changes as a people, not through voting for mini dictators, who we call representatives. Change has never come about that way. Our country was founded on revolution.
Change comes by action. Pulling a handle at the voting box is no different than thinking one can become rich by pulling the handle of a slot machine.
It means going to rallies and protesting. Writing articles about your convictions. Being a foot soldier and going door to door letting people know. That sort of thing.

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naive

Fogdog said:

Go ahead and knock yourself out. I don't believe that you have all the answers. Rather than tell people what to do. Try convincing them. Thus far you've failed miserably.

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Maybe I've failed with you, but there's more communists in America than ever, when at one time just being accused landed you in prison. Now you can be one of those freaks besides the Jehovah's Witness preaching the wonders of communism at the court house, and neither of you get locked up.
70 years ago neither of those things was true.
Gay was considered a mental illness, now we got marriage rights.
We didn't get those rights from voting, we tried. California voted against same sex marriage.
But those rights can just as easily get taken away.
All it takes is for Trump to get in another time. RGB dies along with another lefty judge, bam, no more same sex marriage, no more Roe V Wade, no more civil rights. All those gone.
Such a system to give and take basic human rights shouldn't exist.
If we can't use our democracy properly, we deserve it taken away.
Technology is our only hope.
But it must be an open platform, like Wikipedia, etc. The whole decision chain can't be closed, everyone must have a say.
The definition of greed is known by everyone, but people do it anyway because they can get away with it.
We can't let that happen anymore.
Society must be resource base, not that they're an after thought of a fiat capital based economy.