America's "gun problem"
- Thread starter desert dude
- Start date
desert dude
Well-Known Member
I would be happy to get back to the original topic of the thread, but conversations go where they please.
Somebody on another thread said that there were about 12,000 deaths caused by guns in America, but about two thirds of those are suicides. By my calculation, that means about 4,000 of those deaths were homicide. The article I posted said about 3,200 of those murders occurred in America's war zone cities, so that means......
about 80% of the murders occurred in America's war zone cities, which are also bastions of repressive gun control laws.
I agree with the author when he said, "We don't need to have a conversation about guns. We need to have a conversation about Chicago."
The bottom line is, America does not have a problem with gun violence, we have a problem with gangs murdering other gangsters (mostly) for a whole host of reasons. Creating "assault weapons bans", and more gun control laws is simply window dressing to satisfy the morons; it will do nothing except to make criminals of law abiding citizens.
Somebody on another thread said that there were about 12,000 deaths caused by guns in America, but about two thirds of those are suicides. By my calculation, that means about 4,000 of those deaths were homicide. The article I posted said about 3,200 of those murders occurred in America's war zone cities, so that means......
about 80% of the murders occurred in America's war zone cities, which are also bastions of repressive gun control laws.
I agree with the author when he said, "We don't need to have a conversation about guns. We need to have a conversation about Chicago."
The bottom line is, America does not have a problem with gun violence, we have a problem with gangs murdering other gangsters (mostly) for a whole host of reasons. Creating "assault weapons bans", and more gun control laws is simply window dressing to satisfy the morons; it will do nothing except to make criminals of law abiding citizens.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I think of a movie I saw as a youngster. One of the bad guys had a double shotgun and (was it he?) Dirty Harry remarked that he was out.
Bad guy cracks his gun open and replies "Yuh, but I'm a lightnin' reloader!" cn
PathofTime420
Member
^^^Amen DD. Feel good laws that treat the symptoms but completely ignore the problem.
You have evaded the main question that I ask hours ago. Again...Who are the people that your guns are protecting you from? It is not a challenge to you but for many people the answer is elusive because they don't really know why they have guns or who they are afraid of. There are many reasonable uses for guns such as self-defense, hunting for food, target practice and probably a bunch more that I don't know about. When I hear someone say that they need guns to protect them from government gone bad I realize that they haven't thought this through. When the founding fathers included the provision that allowed citizen to have weapons they did it an era long past. The possibility of a citizens militia defeating the U.S. Army today is none. Therefor the reason behind the 2nd Amendment is still valid but the reality of its purpose is long gone too. It is a right that is impossible to exercise today with the weapons available. If you leave our house with the intention to bear arms against the U.S.Government you will be slaughtered before you cross your lawn in a drone strike controlled by a pimply faced 20 year old that you'd never met. So arguing that the 2nd Amendment gives you a right that doesn't matter anymore gets a little annoying after awhile.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Let me just say that i appreciate your civil tone.I totally agree with your statement in regards to it being a gross media orgy. I know that this is common place, and it happens far more than I wish it did. Please don't think I base any gun decision I make based on anything media or any mass shootings. What I am stating is that black markets enable mass shootings. They give a means to do it that normally is denied.
I never said you dehumanized anyone m8. To you its an honest observation, to me its a distortion of reality. Humans are Humans. We are all born the same, but we all get made into something different. Society creates "bad humans"...nobody is born that way, and nobody dies that way in my opinion. Life to me is not a measured outcome of how you turned out in terms of the measures/standards of a society. Life to me is far greater than society and being a citizen of one. A Materialistic mind cares about the outcomes of a role in society.
Your dead on in regards to your post about consequences. That is exactly what I mean. We can't just give superficial consequences. In my opinion Zim has life-long consequences without even stepping a foot in a Prison.
A lawless society??? Where's that at??Maybe you could throw Somalialand in there but nobody recognizes them as a country let alone a society. Laws permit a society. Otherwise you just have chaos.
Couldn't agree more in regards to Rome and France.
I could be wrong, but this thread has turned into a typical RIU thread...a lousy pissing match that is so far off OP topic is SNL worthy.
I will disagree about all people being born the same. We will probably expose differences in core beliefs here, but I have seen people who were just plain born bad, as in defective. I don't think that any amount odf social imposition can cause or repair sociopathy.
I also wonder about the "materialistic mind" statement. Can one not be a materialist and still have and fully internal moral compass? I believe myself to be one such. I don't acknowledge a divine principle, and yet i am a moral (and morally introspective) individual. I pay attention to socially-presented moral expectations, but reserve the right to check them against my internal standards. My feeling about differences in beliefs arises from my unconfirmed reading of your context as a probable, practicing theist. While I don't hold to any theistic doctrine, I prefer my immediate response to those who believe (!) otherwise to be one of hospitality without unusual condition.
An aside about black markets and shooting sprees. Most of the spree weapons in the States were acquired and held legally. Most of those in other countries, like that Norwegian disaster, were not. Now, by definition a black market is illegal, but eradicating it is not in the reach of human capacity. Legislation is not a magic bullet, if you'll forgive the mangled metaphor. The lesson I get from all this is to legislate with some restraint, to frame laws that are practicable/enforceable without resort to draconian measures. To me, this means never framing laws that expect too much from our fellow person. The only real way to hold the black market in check is to remove its raison d'être, which is invariably prohibition. cn
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
CC, I answered you directly.
I challenge this. Our experiences in 'Nam, the Sandbox and the 'Stan strongly suggest this is not so. The casualties will be high, so it will require downright Medieval courage (the kind that will have you screaming in a dead run toward the massed hardware) to oppose the soldiers. But remember that each physical war is paired with a moral war, and that is the center's to lose.
The calculus of numbers of drones available vs. number of stockpiled 7.62x39 rounds does not favor the dronistas. It will turn into ground warfare incl. house-to-house, and the technical force multiplication upon which our military relies collapses in such an environment. Jmo. cn
ArcticGranite
Well-Known Member
The founders didn't allow us to keep and bear. They limited government from infringing upon that right.
The greatest reason for this was to keep a balance of power, the reality of purpose still being very salient.
Available weapons- power has definately shifted to Govt. That ought not to be so.
echelon1k1
New Member
If it did come to urban warfare, I don't know think many patriotic servicemen/women would be happy in turning their weapons on the American populace and I would hope to God not...jmo
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
I said this once before some time ago.
Our government would drop a nuke on all major cities, one by one, until we begged to eat cockmeat sandwiches.
Who would care? The rest of the world would laugh.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I don't think they would. I mean, talk about cutting off your head to spite your face.
And after even one, there would be no USA. cn
budlover13
King Tut
I beg to differ. That would radiate their supply chain.
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
What supply chain? We import everything. If by supply chain you mean slaves, I agree. But what good is a slave that thinks there's an alternative?
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Who doesn't want a hot slave? cn
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
Oh well, we'd get a new name, UFSA(United Fragmented States of America.) Such is the sacrifice.
budlover13
King Tut
We import a hell of a lot but much of our food comes from within.
ArcticGranite
Well-Known Member
If it comes to it, I would really like the veggie version of this sandwich!
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
~must resist~ cn
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
The rest of the world might know us as the Former Union of Competing Kingdoms. cn