Ancient forest comes with bugs?

W

whitey78

Well-Known Member
I know growing organically is going to bring some critters on occasion if one doesnt keep things clean and take precautions, and some may even come in on the bagged products we use but does every single dirt bearing product carry something?

A few days ago I top dressed 3 of my plants (that are approaching week 4 of bloom) 3 days ago with a top dressing I made out of general organics ancient forest with a few other things tossed in (alfalfa meal, kelp meal, soft rock phosphate all of which I put in sealed containers to prevent this) which I watered and went about my day. A day or 2 goes by and because the past couple months I've been dealing with sporadic fungus gnat break outs I was checking the soil for anything crawling or any of that on one of my plants and I see a little webish, cotton looking spot on the top of the soil and at first I'm thinking "ooohhhh thats the myco web all those supersoil guys are talking about, boy that ancient forest is some good shit...."..... no not really, (it is but you understand).... I start poking around a little and I see some red-ish spider looking things which I'm guessing were spider mites, but honestly I think they were a little big to be spider mites, I'm thinking maybe a spider got in my grow tent or some spider eggs were in the ancient forest, but either way now I have a catastrophe on my hands. I have plants pushing pistils and producing resin like crazy fairly early on for once. It was only one plant, and this actually happened the last time I used ancient forest but I had used 2 different types of soil and several other amendments so I had no clue who brought the crabs to the orgy but the bags of ancient forest are sealed so I know it wasnt a manifestation in my spot, all my soil is gone for the year so theres nothing laying around other than live plants, as I was in a last ditch effort trying to use up everything I have before I shut down this summer with a nice harvest of chernobyl....sucks. Hopefully I can get my hands around it before it gets too serious.

Not really sure what I was looking for posting this but I'm fairly certain that this problem poured out of a bag of ancient forest, I was curious if anyone else had issues with it. I'm seriously debating popping one of those doktor doom bombs but I'd really hate to do that to my nice organic buds but I'll give it a couple days and just keep an eye on it, I already blasted everything with neem oil which I'll be doing again in a few days, I also gave them a soil drench of spinosad last night. I'll have to check everything today and keep an eye out over the next 3-4 days.

Any suggestions....
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
whitey78 said:
I know growing organically is going to bring some critters on occasion if one doesnt keep things clean and take precautions, and some may even come in on the bagged products we use but does every single dirt bearing product carry something?

A few days ago I top dressed 3 of my plants (that are approaching week 4 of bloom) 3 days ago with a top dressing I made out of general organics ancient forest with a few other things tossed in (alfalfa meal, kelp meal, soft rock phosphate all of which I put in sealed containers to prevent this) which I watered and went about my day. A day or 2 goes by and because the past couple months I've been dealing with sporadic fungus gnat break outs I was checking the soil for anything crawling or any of that on one of my plants and I see a little webish, cotton looking spot on the top of the soil and at first I'm thinking "ooohhhh thats the myco web all those supersoil guys are talking about, boy that ancient forest is some good shit...."..... no not really, (it is but you understand).... I start poking around a little and I see some red-ish spider looking things which I'm guessing were spider mites, but honestly I think they were a little big to be spider mites, I'm thinking maybe a spider got in my grow tent or some spider eggs were in the ancient forest, but either way now I have a catastrophe on my hands. I have plants pushing pistils and producing resin like crazy fairly early on for once. It was only one plant, and this actually happened the last time I used ancient forest but I had used 2 different types of soil and several other amendments so I had no clue who brought the crabs to the orgy but the bags of ancient forest are sealed so I know it wasnt a manifestation in my spot, all my soil is gone for the year so theres nothing laying around other than live plants, as I was in a last ditch effort trying to use up everything I have before I shut down this summer with a nice harvest of chernobyl....sucks. Hopefully I can get my hands around it before it gets too serious.

Not really sure what I was looking for posting this but I'm fairly certain that this problem poured out of a bag of ancient forest, I was curious if anyone else had issues with it. I'm seriously debating popping one of those doktor doom bombs but I'd really hate to do that to my nice organic buds but I'll give it a couple days and just keep an eye on it, I already blasted everything with neem oil which I'll be doing again in a few days, I also gave them a soil drench of spinosad last night. I'll have to check everything today and keep an eye out over the next 3-4 days.

Any suggestions....
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Pics would be helpful. It could be predator mites, which are beneficial as they will eat any bad bugs. I would just keep an eye on them. If you see any on the underside of your leaves, then it may be time to worry. Best of luck my friend!
 
Kb's seeds

Kb's seeds

Active Member
i cant say ive had bugs pop outa that brand of forest humus before, but i have gotten funags knats from soil mixes too, the worst was from jiffy's seed starting mix, its omri approved and used to just have peat moss and vermiculte, but it seems theyve changed it up a bit cause they added lime and a wetting agent, well when i tried the new bag i guess another new ingredient they added was funguas knats cause after i sprouted the seeds with the jiffy i had hella fungus knats and they all seemed to be based around the seed sprouts before they moved into the mommas soil so i know it was from the jiffy, i was gona stop using jiffy anyway cause u get way stronger sprouts if u sprout with happy frog in my expernice but the fungus knats really put the last nail on the jiffy mix's coffin im definitly never using it again unless the world ends and im taking refuge in a store and thats all they carry, cause if the world ends all of us smart enough to stock seeds will still be able to grow lol btw dont waste ur time sprayin the knats and using spinosad for a soil drench the easiest way to control knats is to get sum predator nematodes and water them in, they will take care of the problem and make sure it doesnt come back, i like using spinosad on bud eating catipillars shit works way better than BT or safer
 
B

blueJ

Active Member
are they fat little tiny buggers with little legs and they look like super miniature reddish/orange spiders? I just noticed a shitton of those crawling up the sides of a couple pots, usually i just get a shit ton of springtails and a few of these little guys. Plants are healthy right? and its only on the soil? living soil has all sorts of little buggers. my plants thrive so no harm done :) i think doc111 has it right with predatory mites
 
W

whitey78

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I cant remember what they looked like but truthfully all I could think was spiders when I saw them but they were a little big to be freshly born spidermites, not to mention it looks like they all came from one egg rather than a bunch of little ones which what makes me think it wasnt necessarily spider mites. But I dont wanna take a chance so I'll be all up on these gals as I really need this batch of meds in order to last me till summers end so I will watching closely, but nematodes are on my short list of things to get for my upcoming batch of super soil.

If and when I see anything else I will take pics before I start pouring the nearest bug killing substance on them, the entire time the camera was on the table next to me and I couldnt get un-panicked enough to take a picture...but thanks for the reassuring words, definitely what I needed. Thank you.
 
H

Hasbroh

Well-Known Member
Same thing. Top dressed with ewc and Ancient Forest a couple of weeks ago. The mites moved around pretty quick and weren't interested in the plants so I think they were bug eaters. They and the gnats disappeared in a couple of days after drying out in the sun. My plants are very healthy so I'm not worried about them. But I tend to enjoy the whole cycle of life thing as long as it's in balance. The garden has plenty of lace wing lions, praying mantis, spiders, etc.

edit; started applying my tea a couple of days later so that would have had a positive affect on the situation, also.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Those are probably a species of Hypoaspis mite (microathropods)... they are about a millimeter or two large, shiny, light yellow or orange-reddish (depending on the species). They are predator mites and damned good ones. They don't lay webs, though, so whatever white fuzz you noticed wouldn't be associated with them (if they are Hypoaspis).

If you have fungus gnats and Hypoaspis mites in your soil... you're not going to have fungus gnats for much longer. However, having fungus gnat eggs/pupae/larvae in your soil and then introducing these suckers WILL cause the population of Hypoaspis mites to explode as they love going after gnat eggs and pupae. If they are predator mites you'll want to keep them there and let them do their thing. They'll turn gnats and other pests into fertilizer, shred organic matter, aerate your soil and shuttle microbes around. Worship them.

Hypoaspis looks something like this (the species in the picture is Hypoaspis miles). If you have enough of them they'll crawl around the perimeter of your container, and if you stick your hand into the soil they'll start crawling up your arm. Otherwise, the soil is where they like to be and that is where they will stay.

104370200.MtMpGnuJ.jpg
 
W

whitey78

Well-Known Member
I found another plant with these things in it, and I cannot identify them. I've been going through pictures of all sorts of pests trying to figure out but they look more similar to the hypoaspis mite pic in the post above than anything else I can say they look like, but these things are tiny to the point I cant take a picture of them and need a 30x scope to get any kind of view of them. One thing I noticed about them is they dont like the light for whatever reason as they stay just below the top, but if I move a little soil I can see them all over the place just out of the light.

They arent congregating on any of the branches that I can see, I see some crispy edges and a few spots but the spots look like micro nute defs more than anything, but none of it looks like any kind of sap sucker marks or any of that on the leaves. I'm really puzzled, on one hand I just want to exterminate everything I see but I dont want to kill the soil any more than I have to. However I ordered some nematodes so I hope they can get the situation under control, if not I guess I'll wait to see damage starts anywhere, I'm gonna try and limp it along but if I cant I just have to axe them and get it over with. Sucks.... hopefully it doesnt come to that.

But I wanted to ask how would I end up with predator mites? I know they more than likely came in with the soil additive/amendments but these things are just natural pests that pop up? or would/could the people that harvest (?) these products be throwing them in?
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Hypoaspis are NOT pests. They move quickly and stay just below the soil surface, so that is probably what you've got and if so you want to keep them.

They can come in from compost, humus, earthworm castings or may even have already been present in your potting mix.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
By the way, you said you ordered nematodes... well Hypoaspis eat those, too. They eat bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoans, collembola (spring-tails), fungus gnat eggs/pupae/larvae, aphids, and well over a hundred species of other kinds of soil dwelling insects, particularly the real pests.

I can't stress this enough, just because you see little bugs crawling around in your soil it isn't always cause for concern. It isn't a cue to go on an extermination rampage or harvest your plants early or anything like that. Hypoaspis/predator mites are not only harmless; they'll take out the bugs that want to do your plant real harm. You're gardening with the soil food web and arthropods happen to be a part of the food web, a very big and beneficial part.

Without bugs like Hypoaspis we'd be living in a world with so many gnats, flies, aphids and root eating nematodes, etc. most plant species would probably be decimated or barely hanging on for survival. So, to reiterate, Hypoaspis are the GOOD GUYS and you WANT them in your soil. People pay good money to ensure that they've got Hypoaspis mites defending their plants and their crops. These guys are working 24/7 for YOU, turning pests into fertilizer, closing the nutrient gap, aerating your soil and all in all protecting your soil from the less friendly invaders.

If you want to confirm without a doubt what you have in your soil, contact a university or the USDA Cooperative Extension department of entomology. They will ID any bug you send them down to the species and best of all it is a free service. You just have to collect the specimen, preserve it and ship it to them.

To try and help you understand where they would come from... I have at least 3 species of predator mites in my outdoor compost pile. They crawl all over the banana and orange peels and lettuce scraps eating fly larvae and other small insects that inhabit the pile. So they would be naturally present in compost and forest humus. They might even be used by whatever potting mix manufacturer you use, because they keep pest insects out of the batch throughout the production, storage and shipping process. Typically you wouldn't find them in sufficient populations in bagged potting mix because it tends to dry out before it gets to you. Vermicompost and EWC producers also rely on predator mites, again to keep fly populations down. Many people add them to their worm bins for this purpose.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Ancient forest is a compost from forest floors. In tropical forests, the floors are moulting grounds for predatory mites. Helps keep the eco system intact.
 
polyarcturus

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
By the way, you said you ordered nematodes... well Hypoaspis eat those, too. They eat bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoans, collembola (spring-tails), fungus gnat eggs/pupae/larvae, aphids, and well over a hundred species of other kinds of soil dwelling insects, particularly the real pests.

I can't stress this enough, just because you see little bugs crawling around in your soil it isn't always cause for concern. It isn't a cue to go on an extermination rampage or harvest your plants early or anything like that. Hypoaspis/predator mites are not only harmless; they'll take out the bugs that want to do your plant real harm. You're gardening with the soil food web and arthropods happen to be a part of the food web, a very big and beneficial part.

Without bugs like Hypoaspis we'd be living in a world with so many gnats, flies, aphids and root eating nematodes, etc. most plant species would probably be decimated or barely hanging on for survival. So, to reiterate, Hypoaspis are the GOOD GUYS and you WANT them in your soil. People pay good money to ensure that they've got Hypoaspis mites defending their plants and their crops. These guys are working 24/7 for YOU, turning pests into fertilizer, closing the nutrient gap, aerating your soil and all in all protecting your soil from the less friendly invaders.

If you want to confirm without a doubt what you have in your soil, contact a university or the USDA Cooperative Extension department of entomology. They will ID any bug you send them down to the species and best of all it is a free service. You just have to collect the specimen, preserve it and ship it to them.

To try and help you understand where they would come from... I have at least 3 species of predator mites in my outdoor compost pile. They crawl all over the banana and orange peels and lettuce scraps eating fly larvae and other small insects that inhabit the pile. So they would be naturally present in compost and forest humus. They might even be used by whatever potting mix manufacturer you use, because they keep pest insects out of the batch throughout the production, storage and shipping process. Typically you wouldn't find them in sufficient populations in bagged potting mix because it tends to dry out before it gets to you. Vermicompost and EWC producers also rely on predator mites, again to keep fly populations down. Many people add them to their worm bins for this purpose.
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lol im a dumbass good thing i came across this i was spraying my soil cuz i saw those hyopsis things, now i know better. i though they where mites in the soil, they where pretty similar looking but more like the pics of those things.... hard to tell when they 1/20 of an inch.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
polyarcturus said:
lol im a dumbass good thing i came across this i was spraying my soil cuz i saw those hyopsis things, now i know better. i though they where mites in the soil, they where pretty similar looking but more like the pics of those things.... hard to tell when they 1/20 of an inch.
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Yo spider mites chill on the underside of leaves and sometimes on the stalk. If you have them you will see yellowish spots all over the leaves.
 
missnu

missnu

Well-Known Member
Well if you keep getting fungus gnats then you are watering too often...fungus gnats are the easiest bugs in the garden to get rid of...I mean all you have to do is let everything dry out and the gnats will stop laying eggs in your soil...and if the adults stop laying eggs in your soil then you will no longer have gnats...most gnats you see in a house that aren't on a bowl of fruit are fungus gnats...they go to anything wet...wet towels left on the floor, wet sponges in the sink, leaky faucets...so on and so forth...
 
bertiswho

bertiswho

Active Member
I asked an aurora rep Why i get fungas gnats everytime i use roots organics. His response was That he cant say that it didnt come from the process of them making the dirt because it is in fact dirt. But that they take many precautions to try to avoid this. however once it leaves their hands its up to the distributor and stores to store it properly. so i would assume a good portion of bugs and stuff come from how its stored just prior to you buying it, not from the company that actually makes it. So ask the store where you buy it from if they store it outside or in a non climate controlled warehouse.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
missnu said:
Well if you keep getting fungus gnats then you are watering too often...fungus gnats are the easiest bugs in the garden to get rid of...I mean all you have to do is let everything dry out and the gnats will stop laying eggs in your soil...and if the adults stop laying eggs in your soil then you will no longer have gnats...most gnats you see in a house that aren't on a bowl of fruit are fungus gnats...they go to anything wet...wet towels left on the floor, wet sponges in the sink, leaky faucets...so on and so forth...
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This is not entirely true. It kind of erks me when I read things like "oh you have gnats you've got to be over water just let everything dry out". This is not always the case and letting your root-ball go yellow isn't always going to solve the problem (and can very well hurt the plant). Regardless of the fact that I've seen adult fungus gnats lay eggs and propagate in near bone dry soil, our plants need water, too. The problem is that soil is chock full of organic matter and the kind that fungus gnat larvae like to eat, one adult fungus gnat can lay hundreds of eggs at a time, and indoors in a grow room there are typically no predators and no competition amongst other organisms so the gnat population can easily take hold. Introduce a good predator like Hypoaspis to your soil and fungus gnats as well as other soil-dwelling pest organisms are no longer a problem, and you don't have to starve your plants of water.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Ok guys so I had the same bag of af compost for a few weeks. A little over a week ago I used most of it to amend used soil. Today when I was turning the soil. I saw a some lil redish orange predator mites doing their thing. Ever since I started using af compost in teas and top dress, slowly but surely all gnats were gone. As a top.dress my soil stays wet longer too. Around 3 days extra. AF compost kicked my home mades composts ass. I even mixed in some AF in my own compost bin. AF makes a good compost tea too.
 
P

ProfessorPot

Member
Nullis said:
By the way, you said you ordered nematodes... well Hypoaspis eat those, too. They eat bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoans, collembola (spring-tails), fungus gnat eggs/pupae/larvae, aphids, and well over a hundred species of other kinds of soil dwelling insects, particularly the real pests.
Click to expand...
Are they effective at controlling root aphids? Just won a battle against fungus gnats using bti, only to discover i have RA's too. I'm thinking of trying hypoaspis along with some sensizym, h202 and fresh mycos
 
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