Cali.Grown>408
Well-Known Member
a U-B lets see what u got growing right now...show some pics brotha..lets see more pics of that girl u got in for your aviator to
Are Boosters and Additives Really Necessary?
- Thread starter asaph
- Start date
Jack Larson
Active Member
I, for one, am sick & tired of UB's "it's all bullshit" negative, elitist, attitude. Now, however, he/you have resorted to name-calling and critizing a mans profession to make a point. The problem is you've been such a dick about it I don't even know what your point is. Wouldn't it have been enough to say "I do it differently...this is what works for me" ??? Why is it necessary to generalize an entire industry & make personal accusations? Everytime someone has a question about a grow product you take advantage of the opportunity to take digs at the industry, insuate that those who buy these products are gullible fools, and those who sell them are all money hungry shysters. OK, we get it. You shouldn't feel the need to say the same thing over and over, everytime somebody asks about a product. I've said it before & I'll say it again...experiment, & do what works best for you. Sharing your results with others is helpful. Calling someone a Poser because you disagree with them is not helpful.
im with jack on this i am in no way involved in the industry and i do believe some particular additives do work it just comes down to what u want as to what u use.
i have not been here long but i have noticed UB has alot of "internet followers" and i dont understand his negative attitude it only hurts the mj community, no point being an asshole about things.
not as if the other guy is trying to sell anything on here, or pushing a particular product.
just my opinion. dont mean to offend anyone
i have not been here long but i have noticed UB has alot of "internet followers" and i dont understand his negative attitude it only hurts the mj community, no point being an asshole about things.
not as if the other guy is trying to sell anything on here, or pushing a particular product.
just my opinion. dont mean to offend anyone
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Hoagtech, per post #12, answer my issues and quit dodging them. I have been doing this stuff since you were messing in your drawers. I've seen this (money) biz go from 1 to 2 seedbanks to hundreds, plant foods go from the Mom and Pop plant nurseries to every Dutch, NW American, and English shyster complete with coloful labels, half nude women on the websites home page, hype, and crap that has no bearing on plant health or vigor. I'm here trying to protect the folks from the hoards of shysters and the forum enablers who politically align themselves with the likes of salesmen like you.
This is what it's all about:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/quickref/fertilizer/nutri_def.html
Focus on "essential versus beneficial" in this paper: http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~jerry/orchids/nutri.html
Nutrient antagonism, a very important concept that sales guys could care less about much less understand......... but that every grower should investigate:
http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm
May be focused at farmers, but the THEME, the issues, remains the same no matter what the crop:
Myths and Realities of Non-traditional Products or Programs
http://frec.cropsci.illinois.edu/1991/report1/index.htm
Similiar themes.......
Uncle Ben
This is what it's all about:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/quickref/fertilizer/nutri_def.html
Focus on "essential versus beneficial" in this paper: http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~jerry/orchids/nutri.html
Nutrient antagonism, a very important concept that sales guys could care less about much less understand......... but that every grower should investigate:
http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm
May be focused at farmers, but the THEME, the issues, remains the same no matter what the crop:
Myths and Realities of Non-traditional Products or Programs
http://frec.cropsci.illinois.edu/1991/report1/index.htm
Similiar themes.......
- Products are advertised as "natural" "organic" or "work with nature". Many companies appear to be linking themselves to the sustainable agriculture movement.
- The same product may be sold under several names. For example, the paper trail of a blue-green algae product shows that it has at various times since 1973 been sold as Agralife, Agrovita, Genesis II, Planterra, Terra Salvo, Agrispon, Nitro/Max, Reward, Respond, and Soil Inoculant.
- Relatively low rates of application are used, although cost of application tends to be about $6-12 per acre, as this is what farmers seem to be willing to spend.
- The product mode of action is unspecified or is a "trade secret".
- Testimonials are a primary sales technique and sales campaigns usually precede replicated research trials. The decision to buy and use a product is, therefore, often determined by the skill of the salesperson not the efficacy of the product.
Uncle Ben
tip top toker
Well-Known Member
I've only used 2 boosters. One was AN big bud which did nowt, the other was canna boost in a DWC setup. When running with the same clone time and time over, the only thing i can say is that canna boost had incredible results. Since i stopped using it i have done all i can, i went from a 400w to a 600w hps, but i simply cannot get anywhere near the yields i was getting while using the boost. I have read far too much about it being pointless (hence i stopped using it) so one of the thoughts that pops into mind is that maybe the canna nutrient aqua flores range are lacking or low on certain things, and that the boost has these included so what i think is the boost working is actually just the base nutrients being supplemented with what they needed more of or were missing etc. I could be totally off on that, it's just a thought, but it seems that it was too effective for me considering the huge amount of evidence that it's not worth it
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Still haven't recovered from being demoted as a school hall monitor?
I ask for nothing more than scientifically replicated studies and as usual you and your band of buddies do not deliver. I'm gonna fight the Good Cause regarding our dishonorable, money hungry cannabis community. You are free to troll and whine about my cause.
UB
Honest answer, I do not know if they are needed. I use some and never have any issues, so I'm not changing. I tried a view times, and weird shit started happening. Probably was just me not knowing how to adjust the base nutes without the additives. Maybe I should try again, it has been a while. It is hard to argue against Cal-Mag, Roots Excalerator, some carb products etc. though.
One day, when I have a huge stash of dank, and I do not mind fucking a grow up, I will try again with just a/b, until then, to each his own! BTW, using RO verses tab water will certainly introduce some additives, on that one I can assure you problems without additives.
Kind
One day, when I have a huge stash of dank, and I do not mind fucking a grow up, I will try again with just a/b, until then, to each his own! BTW, using RO verses tab water will certainly introduce some additives, on that one I can assure you problems without additives.
Kind
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
It did nothing because it can not sustain foliage..... only sales. Here's the analysis - http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/products/big_bud/big_bud_faq_nutrient_facts.php#nutrientGA Yo mon, the cool looking dude is sure to attract the kids! Dat's kewl!!!!!!!
It's amazing how these shysters have directed folks away from basic plant culture but that is quite understandable. If you can believe the published GA of Big Bud, it will actually REDUCE your yields. Why? Because it does not have enough N to sustain leaf health. duh......
UB
Cheers Ben
OK, I have a cge, can control all perimeters at all times. I have to use RO. You are up, tell me the one and only product I have to use in order to get excellent results. I'm in the middle of a Masterbubba grow, but after that one I might be willing to try, with the same strain again obviously, for comparison
I'm not mocking you here Ben, I would like nothing more then to cut a view products....
Kind
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Howdy - the one and only "product"? Naturally......understanding what makes a plant tick. Now, if that venture is too difficult fer ya, then pay down on a lot of marketing crap and good luck.Cheers Ben
OK, I have a cge, can control all perimeters at all times. I have to use RO. You are up, tell me the one and only product I have to use in order to get excellent results. I'm in the middle of a Masterbubba grow, but after that one I might be willing to try, with the same strain again obviously, for comparison
I'm not mocking you here Ben, I would like nothing more then to cut a view products....
Kind
I spent a bit of time putting together a few links on nutrition. Please reference post #25.
Look at the label's GA to make sure it contains all necessary NPK and micros, adjust your application frequency and amount according to plant REQUIREMENTS, and go from there. Having said that, probably the best bang for the buck is Dyna-Gro foods - Foliage Pro and Bloom is all you need. I would only use it for soil-less or water culture as it contains all 16 essential elements. You want to veg using the (horticultural, not cannabis specific) industry NPK standards of 3-1-2 for foliage production/maintenance and the 1-3-2 for bloom support, keeping in mind that it's leaves that produce, not bottles.
UB
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
UB, would you disagree with using Canna's PK13/14 along with their feeding schedule? It was my understanding this gave more targeted nutrition, as the Bloom Formula is 2-2-4 and the PK13/14 gave the PK boost you need at the right part of flowering for max flower production, whilst the basic nutes give the plant all the basics it needs?
Its only used for a week or two, and Canna are a reputable company, so surely its not just a money making ploy?
Its only used for a week or two, and Canna are a reputable company, so surely its not just a money making ploy?
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
additives work for sure hands down. its a billion dollar industry. do people really think that the money spent on additives, and all the farmers using them are doing it for nothing? if they didnt work sales woulnt be where they are.
tip top toker
Well-Known Member
I was aware of some issues surrounding AN nutes, but i expanded on canna boost as that was the one which had me thinking, given that in my experience it has given me far greater yields than without when used alongside canna A+B and PK 13/14.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
It does seem certain companies do split their stuff into different bottles, sell them with "sexy names" and milk money out of people.
But I was wondering if UB would tell me if the PK13/14 mentioned above is a "snake oil" or not?
Are all additives "snake oils"?
Thanks in advance UB.
But I was wondering if UB would tell me if the PK13/14 mentioned above is a "snake oil" or not?
Are all additives "snake oils"?
Thanks in advance UB.
What do you use, and what medium do you grow in?
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I need a total NPK and micro analysis, what the plant is actually "seeing" to give you my thoughts. Also, it's not that easy - it's ALL factors that matter, not just a few parts. Again, I gave you links in #25, is any one reading them or do you want an easy black/white answer? Sorry, but this is plant culture, there isn't one.
I am networked to a huge farming community - fruits, vegetables, hay, turf, grapes, nuts, landscape material and I know of no one that uses additives. Sugar is often touted as being cool, but only in cannabis forums. If sugar was good it would be sold as a fertilizer.
"They" are where "they" are because:
1. "We are all dreamers and con-men fulfill that dream",
2. Con men are marketing pros.
3. In this biz, sales is all about the power of persuasion. See my sig.
4. It's a billion dollar industry (not really) because con men prey on fools and gullible youth.
Soil, custom mix. For example, just bought a huge 4 c.f. bag of vermiculite from a local lumber yard which will be used in potting mixes to open them up and provide a few trace elements.
UB
MrStickyScissors
Well-Known Member
thats all i use as well is the GO line. its fucking great. i add in sum overdrive from advanced and sum humboldt hney and gravity. been geting really gud yields
ClamDigger
Active Member
they will work IF YOUR PLANTS ARE DEFICIENT IN PK.
otherwise, if you have a healthy plant with lots of leaf matter, and no deficiencies, it shouldn't be necessary.
i consider a fertilizer like that a "specialty" fert, because it has no use in most normal schedules, but will be useful if your plants are ACTUALLY deficient in PK, or if you gave too much N, and need just PK.
your still with us right UB?
i read here that you were banned, how stupid.
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/433161-where-did-all-old-dogs-2.html