Are these nutrients useless?

Thedillestpickle

Thedillestpickle

Well-Known Member
Ive been reading alot of mentions of how first time growers often buy all kinds of garbage additives to mix with their nutes, and most of the stuff they buy is useless at best and potentially harmfull to the plants.
Im wondering if the stuff that I have fits that description so heres a list of what Ive got stocked up on:

House and Gardens Cocos AB formula(im growing in coco btw)
tap water left out for at least 24 hours
HG roots excelurator
Dry Flower products Fulvic acid
Dry Flower products Humic acid
Ph down
Grotek Pro-Silicate
H2O2
Advanced Nutrients Liquid Carbo Load

Im guessing the carbo load is useless to me because from what ive been reading plants dont absorb sugars through their roots so its only good for feeding soil beneficials which I wont have because Im in cocopeat

Anything seem like ive gone overboard or does this all look about right? anything missing?(maybe some HG drip clean?)

thanks for helping
 
WaxxyNuggets

WaxxyNuggets

Active Member
I have no experience in coco but it should be treated as a soilless medium and can definitely be a great home for beneficial microbes. By using h202 you are completely eradicating all bacteria, good and bad. if you continue this route (which is a solid setup) i would suggest gong the route of full synthetic nutes and checking the ph of everything. I wouldnt say the carbo load is useless but you'll be feeding a damaged microbe colony...

I honestly have no idea if theres any benefit or negative to using the carboload, i'd suggest experimenting and forming your own opinion. If i were using coco (currently in a made up soilless peat mix), I'd drop the h202 and go all organic, making use of the soil web in a media that can be fed at the frequency of hydroponics!

I also have no experience on H&G, are they synthetic?
 
cannofbliss

cannofbliss

Well-Known Member
the advanced nutrients carbo load is useless...

all it is is practically MOLASSES and you could have saved some money by switching to blackstrap or g-mas molasses (unsulfured) of course ;)
 
vilify

vilify

Well-Known Member
like you said, i would add some drip clean. friend swears by it. and ive seen his beauties.

i would also look into some hygrozyme. not only increases yield. but you can use less nutrient per feeding based on how much hygrozyme you add.

will edit with a link to a feeding schedule with hygrozyme.

edit: having trouble finding the link, but a good base is something like 2.5 ml less nutes per 5ml of hygrozyme. per gal.
 
cannofbliss

cannofbliss

Well-Known Member
and its not the sugars that plants absorb... its supposed to feed the microbes in the soil (even coco and peat have microbes in it) that work with the roots to break down complex nutrients and minerals so as to better make them more available to the plant ;)

all you have to do is put a small glass in the microwave heat up the water to steaming and then take your tablespoon of molasses and stir it up and its no more viscous or sticky than your nutrient concentration is without it...

so yeah alot of those carbo loaders are all basically grossly overpriced watered down molasses ;)

keep the peroxide just incase you run into any sterilising situations but wouldnt add it to the drip if that is your feeding method as a top drip system...

other than that have fun with it and enjoy the grow ;)
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Id say toss the carboload as well - should be no beneficial bacteria and even if there are you have pre ionized chemical nutes so they really aren't necessary - no un-mineralized amendments to break down. If you go organic I would recommend a true agricultural blackstrap - very little sugar compared to food grade and much more of the beneficial micros - both the plants and the microbes will benefit more from the micros than an over abundant supply of raw sugar. At my local Ag/Feed store true blackstrap is $20 for 5 gallons (35lbs) - about the same price as a single bottle of hydro "carbo load". Not to mention the carbo load has agricultural blackstrap as well and not dark consumption grade molasses (marketed as blackstrap to distinguish that it is dark).
 
Thedillestpickle

Thedillestpickle

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the replies, It was a bit confusing because it seems there are different ideas of what you can do in coco. I am using HG which is fully synthetic, and my coco medium is just that, coco, theres nothing else in it but the HG and additives I water with. So it sounds like there is pretty much no way Im going to have beneficials in my medium, unless I start brewing up teas, but like someone above mentioned I dont need beneficials because my nutes are already broken down fully.

Im simply watering by hand and pouring enough water to make sure a decent amount of runoff is coming out the pots, not doing any routine "flushing" of the coco just the minor flush that comes twice a week with my watering. I will get some drip clean to aid in that. There is pretty much no way for me to get unsulfered molasses without having to really go on a hunt for it which didnt really appeal to me, but if theres no beneficials in synthetically fed coco then I guess it was a waste either way, I can save the carbo-load incase I ever decide to grow in soil.

so it seems ive pretty much got my nutes sorted. I do have one thing that isnt fully clear however:

If there are no beneficials in my coco then shouldnt I be using a small amount of H2O2 to prevent any bad microbes from getting a footing? a root system sourounded by wet coco and void of any beneficials sounds to be an easy place for bad microbes to thrive.


glad at least to not have heard anything bad about the pro-silicate or the humic and fulvic acids.
 
Total Head

Total Head

Well-Known Member
definately keep the silica supplement i started using silica last year and i'll never look back. it's extremely alkaline and i often use it in place of ph up. i don't use it in flower.

the rest of the stuff is fine, i'm just not sure a new grower will benefit from supplements without a baseline to compare the results to. in other words it will be difficult to separate the good stuff from the crap.

i wouldn't at all bother with the carbo load. if you're itching to add carbs to see what happens just use plain ol' molasses.
 
decrimCA

decrimCA

Active Member
Well, in my opinion, H&G is pretty useless in my MMJ grow room because I'm only using AN right now. LOL

As for Carboload, I haven't used that in forevah so I don't know if it's crap or not. There are better AN bundles available now and they're much better for making sure you get the carbs you need (and yes, you do need them). Personally, they're WAY easier than picking and choosing from different nutrients out there - and there are just too damn many of them for my taste anymore. Stick with what you know, right?

Anyways, I'm using the Expert Growing bundle from AN, and it's got everything you need - stuff for roots, growing, blooming, big buds, you name it.

Sensi Grow and Bloom A&B
Voodoo Juice
Big Bud
B-52
Overdrive
Piranha
Bud Candy
Final Phase

Cool package and easy to use. So, let's return to your question, are your nutrients useless? Probably not. Do I think you're using the best (and easiest) package, nope. But hey, it's not my MMJ grow room. :)
 
BeaverHuntr

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
vilify said:
like you said, i would add some drip clean. friend swears by it. and ive seen his beauties.

i would also look into some hygrozyme. not only increases yield. but you can use less nutrient per feeding based on how much hygrozyme you add.

will edit with a link to a feeding schedule with hygrozyme.

edit: having trouble finding the link, but a good base is something like 2.5 ml less nutes per 5ml of hygrozyme. per gal.
Click to expand...

Definitely add drip clean its a great product and goes a long way I never saw any salt build up on my drip rings none what so ever.
 
Beansly

Beansly

RIU Bulldog
Thedillestpickle said:
Thanks for all the replies, It was a bit confusing because it seems there are different ideas of what you can do in coco. I am using HG which is fully synthetic, and my coco medium is just that, coco, theres nothing else in it but the HG and additives I water with. So it sounds like there is pretty much no way Im going to have beneficials in my medium, unless I start brewing up teas, but like someone above mentioned I dont need beneficials because my nutes are already broken down fully.

Im simply watering by hand and pouring enough water to make sure a decent amount of runoff is coming out the pots, not doing any routine "flushing" of the coco just the minor flush that comes twice a week with my watering. I will get some drip clean to aid in that. There is pretty much no way for me to get unsulfered molasses without having to really go on a hunt for it which didnt really appeal to me, but if theres no beneficials in synthetically fed coco then I guess it was a waste either way, I can save the carbo-load incase I ever decide to grow in soil.

so it seems ive pretty much got my nutes sorted. I do have one thing that isnt fully clear however:

If there are no beneficials in my coco then shouldnt I be using a small amount of H2O2 to prevent any bad microbes from getting a footing? a root system sourounded by wet coco and void of any beneficials sounds to be an easy place for bad microbes to thrive.


glad at least to not have heard anything bad about the pro-silicate or the humic and fulvic acids.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you really did your homework. Kudos!
I can tell you're gonna have many successful grows. You're right about not needing bennies with your synthetic nutes. It would be not only a waste of time but a waste of money also. From what I've heard rom experienced growers, AN gives them the best yields they've ever had, and that all you need is connoisseur, big bud, b52, overdrive, sensi cal a, and b. Everything else is pretty much useless except for Voodoo Juice, but you're not using beneficials.
There's is a guy named LaudanumRX is growing some TGA Plushberry using coco hydroponics. He's feeding 6 times a day and getting amazing results. Check out his picks to see what oyu can do with you medium.
https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/398941-plush-berry-picture-thread-27.html

I also recommend Collective Gardener's thread to anyone serious about growing.
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow-110.html

Good luck. Sounds like you wont need it. ;)
 
Thedillestpickle

Thedillestpickle

Well-Known Member
Beansly said:
It sounds like you really did your homework. Kudos!
I can tell you're gonna have many successful grows. You're right about not needing bennies with your synthetic nutes. It would be not only a waste of time but a waste of money also. From what I've heard rom experienced growers, AN gives them the best yields they've ever had, and that all you need is connoisseur, big bud, b52, overdrive, sensi cal a, and b. Everything else is pretty much useless except for Voodoo Juice, but you're not using beneficials.
There's is a guy named LaudanumRX is growing some TGA Plushberry using coco hydroponics. He's feeding 6 times a day and getting amazing results. Check out his picks to see what oyu can do with you medium.
https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/398941-plush-berry-picture-thread-27.html

I also recommend Collective Gardener's thread to anyone serious about growing.
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow-110.html

Good luck. Sounds like you wont need it. ;)
Click to expand...
Oh dont overestimate me there Beansly, I'm just itching to fuck it up LOL It is my first time grow afterall so I gotta make all the mistakes I can(at least I can say "hey what did you expect for a noob?") this first time around

I might be getting a little too confident for a first time grower, Im running my nutes at 1100ppm(as recommended by H&G nutes charts but NOT recommended by anyone else on RIU) but my plants are loving it as far as I can tell, they are look very nice indeed. Ive got more seeds on the way incase things do go down the shitter, but maybe with some luck I will pull through.
 
Thedillestpickle

Thedillestpickle

Well-Known Member
^^Toblerone^^ said:
How about Humic acid and Fluvic Acid? are they a waste of money?
Click to expand...
Well having now read a little more about my cocos AB formula, I discovered that there is actually fulvic and humic acid already in my base nurtrients. I think its widely agreed that Fulvic and Humic acid are a beneficial thing to have in your mix but perhaps a waste in my situation given that I already have those ingredients in my base nutes. I think I will continue to use them however but at 1/4 recommended strength.

I've decided to go 100% H&G nutes line, not sure I can afford all of the additives such as algie extract($145 a Litre where I live). and use other products minimally. I think 1 drop of dawn, Ph, down, superthriveB1, and fulvic/humic will be the only non H&G products going into my mix.

thanks for the help everyone
 
H

hydranthead

Member
Pro-Tekt adds strength to your roots and foliage, making it more difficult for plants to get a foothold. I've been very happy with my pest-free, disease-free garden, I use pro-tekt from seedling until 2 weeks before harvest. As you are not using any beneficials pro-tekt is really going to give your plants the extra protection it needs. To the guys saying go buy AN.....I'm sure it's awesome stuff, I have zero doubt, but IMHO equal results can be obtained with nutes 1/4 of the price.
 
Thedillestpickle

Thedillestpickle

Well-Known Member
hydranthead said:
Pro-Tekt adds strength to your roots and foliage, making it more difficult for plants to get a foothold. I've been very happy with my pest-free, disease-free garden, I use pro-tekt from seedling until 2 weeks before harvest. As you are not using any beneficials pro-tekt is really going to give your plants the extra protection it needs. To the guys saying go buy AN.....I'm sure it's awesome stuff, I have zero doubt, but IMHO equal results can be obtained with nutes 1/4 of the price.
Click to expand...
From what Im reading H&G is a top of the line nute line, so I don't think I'll be switching to AN, especially having already spent all the money for the H&G nutes that I do have. I may use some of the Pro-Tekt, however it does have alot of K in it and I don't want to throw my NPK all out of whack. I am curious if there is a product I can use to raise my N because I am already at very high ppm and risk burning now, but I think they could use some more N, not absolutely needed but it would likely help a bit, they are green but not as deep of a green as I normally see in pictures online. Maybe it is just the nature of a young plant to be a lighter green and this will correct itself as the plant matures? Ive heard of silicate products being used where a garden with mites will have no mites on the silicate treated plants yet mites on the plants not treated with silicate so I think it will be good to continue using this product.
Thanks for all the help, hopefully in time I will have a good idea of how to work my nutrients
 
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