Attention Atheist

mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
crackerboy said:
Here is a question for all. If there is no God than what is your foundation of truth? Where do people get their moral beliefs of right and wrong? In order to say something is true, you must have a foundation of what truth is.
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Rational empiricism is my basis for deciding what's true or not.

A certain level, of morality occurs in every social animal. Things like altruism are found in many types of animals, not just the primates although non-human primates can have very intricate social structure. One way you can think about morals is to relate them to empathy. We can certainly agree that you or I wouldn't want to be murdered or have someone take our shit without our permission, so it is reasonable to conclude that you and I shouldn't murder others or take their possessions either and classify those behaviors as immoral.

As for how we developed those morals, you ask good questions and science is doing some great research in the area.

[youtube]RK8rKKp-vP0[/youtube]
 
LightningMcGreen

LightningMcGreen

Active Member
crackerboy said:
But every man, woman, and child are born with this little voice inside that tells them what is right and wrong. whether or not they choose to listen to it is another story. So where does that voice come from?
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That voice is intuition. A thought formed in the subconscious, then ultimately rationalized (by conditioning set by parents and society) by the conscious mind.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I would also like to add that no not every human is born with it either.

Psychopaths don't have it or don't listen to it like the rest of us do. There are psychopaths in every single culture and society on the planet.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I would also like to add that no not every human is born with it either.
Psychopaths don't have it or don't listen to it like the rest of us do. There are psychopaths in every single culture and society on the planet.
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at birth we would all be considered psychopaths. before society leaves its imprint on us, our will is entirely under the control of self-interest and the needs of others aren't even considered. the pleasure and pain of the individual are all that is important. through punishment and reward we gradually align ourselves with the mores of our culture and become what is considered a sane, productive person. a psychopathic personality merely fails to allow society's imprint to overshadow those primal needs we are all born to.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
at birth we would all be considered psychopaths. before society leaves its imprint on us, our will is entirely under the control of self-interest and the needs of others aren't even considered. the pleasure and pain of the individual are all that is important. through punishment and reward we gradually align ourselves with the mores of our culture and become what is considered a sane, productive person. a psychopathic personality merely fails to allow society's imprint to overshadow those primal needs we are all born to.
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I guess you didn't watch the video as current research completely contradicts this opinion of yours.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
I guess you didn't watch the video as current research completely contradicts this opinion of yours.
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the only thing that such studies can ever prove is how quickly we are imprinted with the mores of society. our training begins almost immediately after birth, rewards are given for behavior that adheres to societal norms and punishment meted out for aberrance. those rewards and punishments may be as seemingly inconsequential as subtle cues given by those that an infant is dependent upon, but they are powerful nonetheless. any claim that such experimentation proves some innate tendency toward helpful or moral behavior is pseudo-scientific claptrap. all that can rationally be construed is an intelligent self-interest.
 
humblegrizz

humblegrizz

Active Member
As a scientist who thinks in terms of the laws of the universe, all I can say when someone asks me about God(s) is... "no data available".
 
Zcomfort

Zcomfort

Active Member
Our minds can not handle the truth of God. He is beyond our capabilities, so one must have faith. We all have a destiny, but we have the power to make our way to or from it. God already knows wich way though. I didn't realise how many nonbelievers were on here, and I just hope that there are more believers that medicate in the world than none.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
the only thing that such studies can ever prove is how quickly we are imprinted with the mores of society. our training begins almost immediately after birth, rewards are given for behavior that adheres to societal norms and punishment meted out for aberrance. those rewards and punishments may be as seemingly inconsequential as subtle cues given by those that an infant is dependent upon, but they are powerful nonetheless. any claim that such experimentation proves some innate tendency toward helpful or moral behavior is pseudo-scientific claptrap. all that can rationally be construed is an intelligent self-interest.
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IC, so you're now an expert in human and chimpanzee development and you are smarter than the researchers at the Max Planck Institute because they're so stoopid. I'll call them up and tell them you're on your way to correct all of their mistakes they've made.
 
K

Kubla

Well-Known Member
Where did everything come from?

I don't know. No one knows. The whole concept is pretty overwhelming for anyone to wrap their head around, but I honestly see religion as an emotional crutch in this regard. I've plenty of religious and non-religious friends, many of whom I've discussed this with on one level or another.

From my experience asking the same question as the OP (albeit not as beligerantly) you get these two answers the most:

Religious answer: God made everything. (I.e. I don't know where this universe came from or how it came to be, but I believe that a Creator is responsible.(

Atheist: Big Bang theory etc. (I.e I don't know, but all the rational evidence falls with science.)

To each his own.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Kubla said:
Where did everything come from?

I don't know. No one knows. The whole concept is pretty overwhelming for anyone to wrap their head around, but I honestly see religion as an emotional crutch in this regard. I've plenty of religious and non-religious friends, many of whom I've discussed this with on one level or another.

From my experience asking the same question as the OP (albeit not as beligerantly) you get these two answers the most:

Religious answer: God made everything. (I.e. I don't know where this universe came from or how it came to be, but I believe that a Creator is responsible.(

Atheist: Big Bang theory etc. (I.e I don't know, but all the rational evidence falls with science.)

To each his own.
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You're right, but to imply "belief" or "faith" is on equal ground in the real world, especially when you're talking about our collective reality that we all share and can all observe in the exact same way with the exact same tools, faith and belief fall short where the evidence lives on whether someone believes it or not.

Which is one of the reasons I'm an atheist to begin with...
 
K

Kubla

Well-Known Member
I agree with you totally, I'm atheist myself for the very simple fact that at least science has legs to stand on.


That said, I can understand why science doesn't win over many of the religious. Getting beaten over the head with a Bible does nothing to convince me of it's supposed truth, and in the same way you can quote Origin of Species or whatever to a theist all day and they'll find it totally ridiculous. I really wish it was different, but from my experience it isn't :(
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Kubla said:
I agree with you totally, I'm atheist myself for the very simple fact that at least science has legs to stand on.


That said, I can understand why science doesn't win over many of the religious. Getting beaten over the head with a Bible does nothing to convince me of it's supposed truth, and in the same way you can quote Origin of Species or whatever to a theist all day and they'll find it totally ridiculous. I really wish it was different, but from my experience it isn't :(
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Kubla, I have pretty similar experiences in my life. Welcome to the forum buddy

It's weird... personal friends, really smart people with full blown faith... I guess my conclusion so far is indoctrination and the idea of non existence after death is just too powerful a force for some people, and other people know how to take advantage of it for their own benefit.
 
trichlone fiend

trichlone fiend

New Member
Padawanbater2 said:
It's weird... personal friends, really smart people with full blown faith... I guess my conclusion so far is indoctrination and the idea of non existence after death is just too powerful a force for some people, and other people know how to take advantage of it for their own benefit.
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...ISN'T THAT THE FUCKING TRUTH!!!

 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
trichlone fiend said:
...ISN'T THAT THE FUCKING TRUTH!!!

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An odd thing about that observation too is that most of these people are completely oblivious they're doing anything. Most preachers and priests believe what they preach, I'd assume, same with parents who teach their kids their faith, and it's the religion and the dogma itself that's perpetuating the indoctrination. The good ol' fear of nonexistence has always been around, but none of these believers - that I know anyway - ask themselves if there's truth to the history. Most atheists I know know more about religion than most believers. That says a lot. How a person of faith can't see that I don't really get... But then again, I don't get a lot of things about people with faith...
 
Z

zuuluu

Active Member
Well some of us dont have to have an answer for everything. There earth has been here for no telling how many billions or trillions of years and I have only been here for 20 so unlike u I dont act like a no it all. I exept that I dont know everything and thats that. I dont have to b an ass hole like ur self and say it was created in 6 days by some dude and say if anyone beleves other wise ur a dumb atheist. Who gives a shit? Its marijuana forum. I dont no how the earth is made but I do no I'm on earth and so is marijuana so I smoke the shit out of it and say thank u earth. Thats that. Fuck u.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
zuuluu said:
Well some of us dont have to have an answer for everything. There earth has been here for no telling how many billions or trillions of years and I have only been here for 20 so unlike u I dont act like a no it all. I exept that I dont know everything and thats that. I dont have to b an ass hole like ur self and say it was created in 6 days by some dude and say if anyone beleves other wise ur a dumb atheist. Who gives a shit? Its marijuana forum. I dont no how the earth is made but I do no I'm on earth and so is marijuana so I smoke the shit out of it and say thank u earth. Thats that. Fuck u.
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None of us have the answers for everything and atheists are the only ones who admit it.

The Earth has been here for 4.56 Billion years. We KNOW this for a fact.

This is the subsection "Spirituality & Sexuality & Philosophy", there are other sections to talk about growing weed.

I do know how the Earth was made.
 
trichlone fiend

trichlone fiend

New Member
zuuluu said:
Well some of us dont have to have an answer for everything. There earth has been here for no telling how many billions or trillions of years and I have only been here for 20 so unlike u I dont act like a no it all. I exept that I dont know everything and thats that. I dont have to b an ass hole like ur self and say it was created in 6 days by some dude and say if anyone beleves other wise ur a dumb atheist. Who gives a shit? Its marijuana forum. I dont no how the earth is made but I do no I'm on earth and so is marijuana so I smoke the shit out of it and say thank u earth. Thats that. Fuck u.
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A

AtheistKnight

Member
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in god. If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him.
 
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