Bad phosphorous deficiency.. are they lost?

So I started these 3 kush autos august 28th and threw then in a 40 gallon rubber made bin. I should've gone with 2 because these got massive.

Everything was good up until about 2 weeks after flowers appeared . I am using canna aqua nutrients 4 part (a+b veg & a+b flower)

About 2 weeks into flower I had already switched nutes to flower, and I started noticing slightly purple leaves towards the top. At first I thought it may be genetics, or the 68degree water in the tote. I have a pump with a 1/2 hp chiller recycling the water through a pvc rail that top feeds the roots inside the tote. I have used this method on 5 or so grows and I've always been satisfied with the results. This strain just seems to be very picky.. first (and last) time growing it.

Anyway, after it was apparent that I had a phosphorous deficiency, I went to the local shop and got some beastie bloom.
I put 6 table spoons in my res with about 25 gallons of water, and hauled ass out of town for thanksgiving.
When I came back yesterday, the purple is gone for the most part and has turned to yellow, and become crispy.

The buds on these plants have definitely suffered from this fiasco and I'm just trying to figure out if they are worth keeping and how to correct this for good.

If anyone has been through this and has some info or advice for me, please chime in!
Pictures aren't in order, sorry

Looks more like magnesium deficiency to me, yellow between the veins. Dunno what caused the purple though. Here's a handy image that may help. Apparently there's several that have yellow between the veins, so who knows.


source

BobCajun said:

Looks more like magnesium deficiency to me, yellow between the veins. Dunno what caused the purple though. Here's a handy image that may help. Apparently there's several that have yellow between the veins, so who knows.

source

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Thank you Bob! I will check my canna nutes to see how much magnesium they provide. If it's not much, I will see about getting a supplement!

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whats the ph in your res?

Looks like the beasty blooms was fed at too high a EC and salt damage occurred. Those few first weeks of flowers they use a lot of micros for growing. Ca, Mg, Mn, Iron, Zn, etc etc.
You need EC meter to be able to dial in your salt level of your feed. For example 5 ml cal mag per gallon puts me at 1.1 EC already. If I listened to the bottle and put 1 tsp maxi on top of that I would be at 3 ec or better, if i dumped that on my soil my shit would fry in two days. Who knows what your EC was in your rez already then you dropped in the high EC ferts. The bluelb EC meter is pretty cheap and reliable. Best tool I have ever bought. I use the EC meter way more than I use the PH meter.

Too much phosphorus? Gotta take it easy with autos.

tonygreen said:

Looks like the beasty blooms was fed at too high a EC and salt damage occurred. Those few first weeks of flowers they use a lot of micros for growing. Ca, Mg, Mn, Iron, Zn, etc etc.
You need EC meter to be able to dial in your salt level of your feed. For example 5 ml cal mag per gallon puts me at 1.1 EC already. If I listened to the bottle and put 1 tsp maxi on top of that I would be at 3 ec or better, if i dumped that on my soil my shit would fry in two days. Who knows what your EC was in your rez already then you dropped in the high EC ferts. The bluelb EC meter is pretty cheap and reliable. Best tool I have ever bought. I use the EC meter way more than I use the PH meter.

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My ppm meter was lost in the move to the new place somehow and I guess my PH drops taste wonderful because my dogs chewed the bottle up.
I've been feeding blind this run and I just flowered out 5 autos before these 3, two different strains, also feeding without meters and they turned out excellent.. but with this strain I'm not so lucky.
The other 5 didn't grow to near the size of these ones though so I guess it is understandable that you sacrifice easy growth for yield.
Nothing good comes easy.
I'll pick up an EC meter and a some PH drops tomorrow and really find out what's going on.
I've got some PH down I can use if needed..
But I definately need to know what I'm running at before I use it.
This isn't my first go round in hydro, just my first time to have major nute problems.. obviously from lack of equipment and res monitoring.

What should I expect from these plants if I do get them fixed up and looking nice? A significant loss in yield I suspect.

I also have to say I took clones from these autos and threw them in the cloner with veg nutrients about 3 weeks ago and they have flourished. Their roots are hitting the bottom of the cloner and they have continued to grow and bud nicely.

Thanks for not bashing me!
I spent about 2k+ building the room and then switched Carrer paths and no longer have an abundance of money for equipment, but I'll make it work one way or another, that's for sure.

Hey Shroomin your on the right path, I'd take em for what they're worth, the learning experience will be worth more than the buds ever would have been FWIW.
Nice room set up, get your meters back and you'll be good. Like I say that EC meter is king!

Ph too high, nutrient lock out, low N besides and now you've slapped them with nasty ass beastie blooms because you thought it was low P....

Dude, you can hydro without a ppm/EC meter......BUT, pH is critical in hydro! No pHing is your numero uno problem!

GET A FUCKING pH PEN! Check pH everyday at lights on! Set it to 5.8 and let it rise to 6.2 and then drop it back to 5.8 and repeat!

Dump the res and start over! MONITOR and ADJUST the pH !

tonygreen said:

Hey Shroomin your on the right path, I'd take em for what they're worth, the learning experience will be worth more than the buds ever would have been FWIW.
Nice room set up, get your meters back and you'll be good. Like I say that EC meter is king!

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Nope, it ain't! Useful if you feel you need it but, surely not "king"....

If you don't have an EC meter how can you dial in anything? Go off the label?
If you are in hydro you should have both PH and EC meter. I grow in soil and PH don't matter for me near as much as EC, I should have mentioned I am in soil.
You can kill your plants faster with salt over dose than you can PH being off a bit.

tonygreen said:

If you don't have an EC meter how can you dial in anything? Go off the label?
If you are in hydro you should have both PH and EC meter. I grow in soil and PH don't matter for me near as much as EC, I should have mentioned I am in soil.
You can kill your plants faster with salt over dose than you can PH being off a bit.

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Simple; Pitch the pen and go by the nutrient feeding charts for ml per gallon. Too much? Use less...Too little, use more!

I've never gone by EC or PPM in soil, ever! It's basic math! (I'm organic anyway)

I did try the PPM thing in hydro for 1 run....hated it! Right back to ml and math!

The point (in the end) is to do what works for you!

My point was that any EC or PPM meter is not required for "ease" of success....I get tingly when someone says "you need" (your exact words) one...

Understand now?

tonygreen said:

If you don't have an EC meter how can you dial in anything? Go off the label?
If you are in hydro you should have both PH and EC meter. I grow in soil and PH don't matter for me near as much as EC, I should have mentioned I am in soil.
You can kill your plants faster with salt over dose than you can PH being off a bit.

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I checked my PH last night, and surprisingly it was at 4. Bright orange.
One thing I didn't mention, I am using city water.
I know I need to check ph of the water before I add it in.. I will do this in just a minute.
I'm thinking that my water is hard and possibly lacking nitrogen?
They sell a hard water nute solution from general hydroponis at the local grow store.
I think I may need to give it a try.
I'll see what the PH of the water is initially and go from there.
Shroominnm

Beastie is for mid stage / late flowering ... It is too much for plant right now
Plus , the ( 0-50-30 ) has no nitrogen , which is still used during flowering .

Shroominnm said:

I checked my PH last night, and surprisingly it was at 4. Bright orange.
One thing I didn't mention, I am using city water.
I know I need to check ph of the water before I add it in.. I will do this in just a minute.
I'm thinking that my water is hard and possibly lacking nitrogen?
They sell a hard water nute solution from general hydroponis at the local grow store.
I think I may need to give it a try.
I'll see what the PH of the water is initially and go from there.
Shroominnm

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Overthinking it .... Tap will work BUT you should check PH BEFORE adding anything to judge where it falls ( acidic or alkaline ). You can also check the PPM of it before adding nutes.

Let's say your water is 7.2 locally. Add your nute mix ( 1/2 strength ) to water , then check PH. If still high add PH DOWN in small increments until you hit the desired PH.

I would dump res and use clean PH correct water for now ... Let them bounce back.

Dr. Who said:

Simple; Pitch the pen and go by the nutrient feeding charts for ml per gallon. Too much? Use less...Too little, use more!

I've never gone by EC or PPM in soil, ever! It's basic math! (I'm organic anyway)

I did try the PPM thing in hydro for 1 run....hated it! Right back to ml and math!

The point (in the end) is to do what works for you!

My point was that any EC or PPM meter is not required for "ease" of success....I get tingly when someone says "you need" (your exact words) one...

Understand now?

Click to expand...

Eyeballing it is what got him into this mess.
Once you know what EC your nutes are when measured out and mixed you can eyeball it, what ppm your water is etc...
Eyeballing it has not worked for him as evidenced by his pic.

5 ml cal mag/ gallon puts me at 1.1 ec. If I were to mix in a tsp of maxi as per the directions on the label I would be sitting at over 3 EC.
If I dumped 3 EC water on my 1.2 EC soil in flower I'd be fucked. If I was in flower, No going back from that, try again next time, I just trashed my grow. I can flush the salts out with massive amounts of water when I notice the damage the next day but it is too late, my roots have been fried.

No need to get tingly for offering up a way for the man to know exactly what he is doing to his water...

Anyway good luck bro.

I'm on my 4th run but I'll share what I know. I grow in pro mix, was told by my hydro store guy not to worry about ec, ph because our city water is fine.ive had early fading from what I thought to be a deficiency but my high ph caused a lockout etc. Ive corrected and have seen positive results. I use my ph pen more than my ec pen although I know where my ec is. Ph matters.

Budzbuddha said:

Overthinking it .... Tap will work BUT you should check PH BEFORE adding anything to judge where it falls ( acidic or alkaline ). You can also check the PPM of it before adding nutes.

Let's say your water is 7.2 locally. Add your nute mix ( 1/2 strength ) to water , then check PH. If still high add PH DOWN in small increments until you hit the desired PH.

I would dump res and use clean PH correct water for now ... Let them bounce back.

Click to expand...

I checked my hose water.. there my problem lies.. it comes out at 8-8.5.. I bought ph up and down along with the liquid test kit.
I am now very carefully adjusting ph.
I full a 5 gallon jug, then add my nutrient solution as per the directions on the bottle.
Then I check PH and add small increments of ph up or down to get to a 5.5
I'm hoping this will fix my problem. The plants seem as though they are bouncing back.
Hairs on the buds are becoming full and bright sure again. We will chalk this one up to negligence by grower.. lol
No more of that shit.
I've put to much time and effort into this setup and this grow in particular to be lazy with ph.



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tonygreen said:

Eyeballing it is what got him into this mess.
Once you know what EC your nutes are when measured out and mixed you can eyeball it, what ppm your water is etc...
Eyeballing it has not worked for him as evidenced by his pic.

5 ml cal mag/ gallon puts me at 1.1 ec. If I were to mix in a tsp of maxi as per the directions on the label I would be sitting at over 3 EC.
If I dumped 3 EC water on my 1.2 EC soil in flower I'd be fucked. If I was in flower, No going back from that, try again next time, I just trashed my grow. I can flush the salts out with massive amounts of water when I notice the damage the next day but it is too late, my roots have been fried.

No need to get tingly for offering up a way for the man to know exactly what he is doing to his water...

Anyway good luck bro.

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I appreciate your input and I aggree !
If the tools to make my life easier are available locally at a decent price (which they are) why not use them?
As for you saying eyeballing got me into this mess, again sir, absolutely right!

I do believe I have learned my lesson, lol and I'll be buying an ec meter asap.
I look at it as a way to get to know exactly what's going on, what the plants like, what they don't like, and a way to be more precise in my feeding for an over all happy grow room.

One I get that figured out, I can't imagine how much better the plants will grow.
I'm in the process of getting a 3 week cycle going and for that, I need precision to ensure everything works 100% with no hold ups.
I appreciate your input!

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tonygreen said:

Eyeballing it is what got him into this mess.
Once you know what EC your nutes are when measured out and mixed you can eyeball it, what ppm your water is etc...
Eyeballing it has not worked for him as evidenced by his pic.

5 ml cal mag/ gallon puts me at 1.1 ec. If I were to mix in a tsp of maxi as per the directions on the label I would be sitting at over 3 EC.
If I dumped 3 EC water on my 1.2 EC soil in flower I'd be fucked. If I was in flower, No going back from that, try again next time, I just trashed my grow. I can flush the salts out with massive amounts of water when I notice the damage the next day but it is too late, my roots have been fried.

No need to get tingly for offering up a way for the man to know exactly what he is doing to his water...

Anyway good luck bro.

Click to expand...

Following a manufacturers feeding chart. Is not "eyeballing". That chart gives you the same value for EC/ppm as delivering the given ml value per gallon of water.
IF your water changes the ppm/EC too much. Then it's a water problem and you need an RO.

tonygreen said:

Looks like the beasty blooms was fed at too high a EC and salt damage occurred. Those few first weeks of flowers they use a lot of micros for growing. Ca, Mg, Mn, Iron, Zn, etc etc.
You need EC meter to be able to dial in your salt level of your feed. For example 5 ml cal mag per gallon puts me at 1.1 EC already. If I listened to the bottle and put 1 tsp maxi on top of that I would be at 3 ec or better, if i dumped that on my soil my shit would fry in two days. Who knows what your EC was in your rez already then you dropped in the high EC ferts. The bluelb EC meter is pretty cheap and reliable. Best tool I have ever bought. I use the EC meter way more than I use the PH meter.

Click to expand...

Beastie blooms is WAY too fucking high in P&K to be used for MM, unless your rather advanced and understand better the relationship to the plants needs.

As far as your belief that adding supplements to your base nutrient EC value will "fry it in 2 days" is totally WRONG!
You use the charted amount of nutrient base. You add your 5ml of Ca/Mg and say Silica at 1-2ml per (Being sure to do the silica first and stirring the water well before adding the nutrients and then the Ca/Mg). pH properly then water away!

A given EC value in nutrient feed charts, is for the value OF THE NUTRIENT and not a total of any supplemental needs! The addition of any Ca/Mg or Si is not going to fry your plants! The only real thing changing with those 2. Would be the K, and most of you could use higher K anyway!

Please use your beloved pen! Just learn how to use it properly!
I do get frustrated when someone comes along and gives incorrect information!

@Shroominnm

Auto's were your fist problem! They are fussy growers and less is more with them.

Here's what happened in your grow.

The pH dropped and the P was blocked for uptake by the low pH. You need to check pH everyday. Low pH is telling you that something is wrong anyway! It should be rising, not falling!

You started bloom feeds too early - The had the pH problem and thought low P (very, very common mistake). You then dumped Beastie Blooms on it in an attempt to "fix" the "guessed" at P problem. This then created a very high and toxic P condition, and that's what caused the really fast yellowing!

You threw a bunch of pictures at us that tell a story that is impossible to define - BECAUSE you didn't give any order of explanation to them!
There are under feed one's!
There are seriously over feed and pH troubled ones!

I can figure out the order by how you explained the pictures and the followup comments...

early plant pics look good. The later and the more you've done to repair them- the worse you made it!

GET a pH PEN, and drop the stupid cheap and inaccurate pH strips....

Do the EC thing if you want to but, you really don't need to..

Feed as directed by the makers feed charts and adjust as needed per the plants reaction...

BTW, that's also how G&H tells you to use an EC pen also.....Feed as directed and adjust as needed!
An EC pen is not your magic ticket to success !!!