Blue Mountian Organics

slipperyP

Well-Known Member
I have been using BMO This is my first grow...They seem to be doing well...3 weeks into flowering the leaves are getting resin crystals forming on the leaves. The order was shipped right away. It got delayed by the post office and BMO put a trace on the order without me making a complaint. I thought that was reputable.
 

plantman969

Active Member
Anyone got the answer as to why my BMO nutes are not registering on my tri-meter or a tds meter? I ordered the bloom and foliar nutes and no matter the dose the nutes are not being registered. So how do i properly take ec/ppm readings?


I Added 15ml - nothing ok maybe a 15-20ppm swing, next added 15ml more pretty much the samething - nothing
WHATS THE DEAL????????????
 

armlengthbuds

Well-Known Member
Anyone got the answer as to why my BMO nutes are not registering on my tri-meter or a tds meter? I ordered the bloom and foliar nutes and no matter the dose the nutes are not being registered. So how do i properly take ec/ppm readings?


I Added 15ml - nothing ok maybe a 15-20ppm swing, next added 15ml more pretty much the samething - nothing
WHATS THE DEAL????????????
do u have anything else u can check it with? IF its reading other products, i would email BMO with this question....

 

plantman969

Active Member
do u have anything else u can check it with? IF its reading other products, i would email BMO with this question....


I have two meters a tri-meter that reads ph, temp, ec, and ppm, and the second meter is a tds meter.

So yea on two different meters the product is not registering. so you dont have this problem? 1st i thought it was because it is an organic nute but from your response your product registers?
 

armlengthbuds

Well-Known Member
I have two meters a tri-meter that reads ph, temp, ec, and ppm, and the second meter is a tds meter.

So yea on two different meters the product is not registering. so you dont have this problem? 1st i thought it was because it is an organic nute but from your response your product registers?
i dont hydro. look for ohsogreen on RIU, he would probably have an answer for you.


 

notoriousb

Well-Known Member
For soil use - mix one ounce ( 2 tablespoons ) of Super Plant Tonic to one gallon of (chlorine free) water. The NPK value is 1.25-.4-.9 Pour into soil at the rate of one quart (mixed) to each gallon of soil in containers, and for in ground use - do not exceed one gallon per plant (weekly). Example: 4 gallons of soil in a container - requires one mixed gallon of Super Plant Tonic per week - or less. For soil this works out to 16 gallons of mix at regular strength or 32 gallons at half strength per bottle.

no i dont check the PH of BMO. I check the water i mix it in. I prefer doing the bubbler method. I make a mix of around four gallons then with my bubble wand or fish tank bubbler, i mix for at least 4 to 5 hours. then apply. But you can simply follow their website directions and have no problems.
http://stores.ebay.com/Blue-Mountain-Organics
you wouldn't half the dosage then build up when you first start using it? because most ferts give the recommended dose then everyone says at least half that, and i just need to know if it's the same with BMO or just use their dosings they recommend?
thanks
 

Ohsogreen

Well-Known Member
Anyone got the answer as to why my BMO nutes are not registering on my tri-meter or a tds meter? I ordered the bloom and foliar nutes and no matter the dose the nutes are not being registered. So how do i properly take ec/ppm readings?


I Added 15ml - nothing ok maybe a 15-20ppm swing, next added 15ml more pretty much the samething - nothing
WHATS THE DEAL????????????
.
Plantman969..... Your TDS meter will not help with organic ferts. I used to do chem / hydro years ago. When I made the switch, I too thought what the hell.....???? but organics are different.
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First, the BMO stuff is missing the heavy metals / inorganic mineral salts you find in most chem only nutes (both of those are highly conductive). Next, their mixes are alive. Large concentrations of live bacteria & fungi, freak out the average EC or TDS meter. TDS or EC readings will not provide a true measure of nute value of organic ferts.
.
So basically, you can use your meter to check the quality of the water prior to mixing, but after that forget-a-bout-it....... Just mix it like it says on the label and give your plants one quart of the mixed up fertilizer per gallon of soil, per week.
.
I would not foliar feed during flowering. Trichromes are like velcro. You could use the foliar mix with the flowering mix to add N.
.
I've always felt BMO's flower fert was too light in the N dept., but the foliar fert mixed in with the flower, makes it just right. Probably no concidence there. Before they starting selling the foliar, I just mixed a 1/4 strength of their grow fert in with the flower power.
.
Hope this helps.....
Keep it Real....Organic.......
.
.
.
 

plantman969

Active Member
.
Plantman969..... Your TDS meter will not help with organic ferts. I used to do chem / hydro years ago. When I made the switch, I too thought what the hell.....???? but organics are different.
.
First, the BMO stuff is missing the heavy metals / inorganic mineral salts you find in most chem only nutes (both of those are highly conductive). Next, their mixes are alive. Large concentrations of live bacteria & fungi, freak out the average EC or TDS meter. TDS or EC readings will not provide a true measure of nute value of organic ferts.
.
So basically, you can use your meter to check the quality of the water prior to mixing, but after that forget-a-bout-it....... Just mix it like it says on the label and give your plants one quart of the mixed up fertilizer per gallon of soil, per week.
.
I would not foliar feed during flowering. Trichromes are like velcro. You could use the foliar mix with the flowering mix to add N.
.
I've always felt BMO's flower fert was too light in the N dept., but the foliar fert mixed in with the flower, makes it just right. Probably no concidence there. Before they starting selling the foliar, I just mixed a 1/4 strength of their grow fert in with the flower power.
.
Hope this helps.....
Keep it Real....Organic.......
.
.
.

I grow in DWC not soil and use the full botanicare "Organic" line - I know they are not true organics but from armlenghts post there should be some sort of readings on the meters.


"I would not foliar feed during flowering. Trichromes are like velcro. You could use the foliar mix with the flowering mix to add N."

What do you mean? Dont foliar feed during flower Tricomes are like velcro.

This statment makes no sense you have provided a statment with nothing to back it. Because they are like velcro what does this have to do with foliar feeding?

The only reason not to foliar feed during flowering is to avoid burnig plants, keep humidity down which in turn helps prevent mold.

I spry my plant at least twice a day opposit of what hey get in the rez for the day. - If i add plain ph regulated water they get sprayed with additives if i add NPK nutes i spray with plain water and if i add my additives then spay with NPK nutes. Also if you are noticing deficincy problems load up a spray bottle with the given nute deficincy and spray on your babies. I even spray in mid day with lights on. Just make sure to use a good mister, Key word MISTER not just any spray bottle. I just add a little silica blast to the mix and watch as the plants literally absorb the water from the top and bottoms of the plants.
 

Ohsogreen

Well-Known Member
I grow in DWC not soil and use the full botanicare "Organic" line - I know they are not true organics but from armlenghts post there should be some sort of readings on the meters.

Seems you have all the anwsers. So why are you asking ?
It's because you don't know.
.

Do enough research on Organic Ferts and you will learn.

The inorganic elements (heavy metals & processing acid residue) in the Botanicare are what are giving you the higher TDS / EC readings, not the true value of NPK, which can only be tested chemically.


NO METER in the WORLD can give you a readout / measurement of NPK value. Surely you didn't think your meter could tell you nute value. The ppm recommendations from fert makers are based on a known NPK value (determined by chemical testing), with a given measure of conductive elements (of which many are inorganic salts or metals, which do Mary not one bit of good).
,
"I would not foliar feed during flowering. Trichromes are like velcro. You could use the foliar mix with the flowering mix to add N."

What do you mean? Dont foliar feed during flower Tricomes are like velcro.

This statment makes no sense you have provided a statment with nothing to back it. Because they are like velcro what does this have to do with foliar feeding?

Once again, you think you know.

The BMO foliar mix has bacteria added to it, to enhance it. Do you really want to spray bacteria onto your trichromes (their sticky (like velcro) & they will act as a food source for them) and have them degraded by these bacteria.

These bacteria are excellent for growth in a medium - that's why products like Sub-Culture, Mcyo Magic, Plant Success...etc.. sell so well.

This mix is great during veg growth and when watered / mixed into your medium, wheter it is soil, coco, or water (hydro). I don't shit where I eat or spray bacteria onto my Trichromes......just weeks prior to harvest........

The only reason not to foliar feed during flowering is to avoid burnig plants, keep humidity down which in turn helps prevent mold.

No, not true. I'd share more with you, but a closed mind can not accept additional info.

I spry my plant at least twice a day opposit of what hey get in the rez for the day. - If i add plain ph regulated water they get sprayed with additives if i add NPK nutes i spray with plain water and if i add my additives then spay with NPK nutes. Also if you are noticing deficincy problems load up a spray bottle with the given nute deficincy and spray on your babies. I even spray in mid day with lights on. Just make sure to use a good mister, Key word MISTER not just any spray bottle. I just add a little silica blast to the mix and watch as the plants literally absorb the water from the top and bottoms of the plants.
Key words " Wise Up "..... you do not know as much as you think you do.

Stick a TDS meter in regular coffee, then stick one in decaf - did it tell you which one had caffeine. The same applies to fertilizers.... if you just want high reading, buy some toxic waste - it's full of NPK with massive EC / TDS numbers.... I bet that would impress you.
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You know as a rule, I really enjoy helping people. However, I'm not sure I have anymore for you.
.
Your attitude will not serve you well here. We organic types don't associate with hostile, " I know it alls ".
.
If you knew 1/2 of what you think you know, you'd be the smartest person I never met. Thank goodness......
.
 

dirt clean

Well-Known Member
I grow in DWC not soil and use the full botanicare "Organic" line - I know they are not true organics but from armlenghts post there should be some sort of readings on the meters.


"I would not foliar feed during flowering. Trichromes are like velcro. You could use the foliar mix with the flowering mix to add N."

What do you mean? Dont foliar feed during flower Tricomes are like velcro.

This statment makes no sense you have provided a statment with nothing to back it. Because they are like velcro what does this have to do with foliar feeding?

The only reason not to foliar feed during flowering is to avoid burnig plants, keep humidity down which in turn helps prevent mold.

I spry my plant at least twice a day opposit of what hey get in the rez for the day. - If i add plain ph regulated water they get sprayed with additives if i add NPK nutes i spray with plain water and if i add my additives then spay with NPK nutes. Also if you are noticing deficincy problems load up a spray bottle with the given nute deficincy and spray on your babies. I even spray in mid day with lights on. Just make sure to use a good mister, Key word MISTER not just any spray bottle. I just add a little silica blast to the mix and watch as the plants literally absorb the water from the top and bottoms of the plants.

what a douche.
 

AgentX

Active Member
Anyone got the answer as to why my BMO nutes are not registering on my tri-meter or a tds meter? I ordered the bloom and foliar nutes and no matter the dose the nutes are not being registered. So how do i properly take ec/ppm readings?


I Added 15ml - nothing ok maybe a 15-20ppm swing, next added 15ml more pretty much the samething - nothing
WHATS THE DEAL????????????
Okay, I'm with you buddy. I've been using this stuff for the first time around and am having the same issues with getting weak EC/TDS measurements even when mixing way above recommended levels. My meter is a brand new Hanna 98129 Combo that I calibrated personally, twice. I don't know what the deal is but the plants just refuse to respond to the nutes and I've just about had it. Why is everyone else having good results? That's a rhetorical question.

X
 

dirt clean

Well-Known Member
from everything that I read you should not as it is organic and their is no salts, as I understand it. I beleive I have read that at a hydro store. Are you really getting no results. I have awesome grows. I also use batguano and fish emulsion too ocaionally. I have just begun flower. I will look for you. I know that most other organic nutes actually have salts. To be organic you only have to have 70% of it organic.
 

dirt clean

Well-Known Member
PPM pens don't really read organic nutrients because of their [lack of] electrical conductivity.

EC/TDS is a measure of the conductivity of the solution, which only reflects the ionic components. With organic fertilizers a lot of the nutes are bound up in carbon compounds and not very conductive.

these two sentences were cut and paste from another site. I also read another study just now where they state they could easily dtermine the inorganic ferts with a ppm pen but with the organic they had to send to a lab to have NPK analyzed.

hope that helps. I trust the BMO>:)
 

armlengthbuds

Well-Known Member
pasted from ohsogreen (master organic grower)
.
First, the BMO stuff is missing the heavy metals / inorganic mineral salts you find in most chem only nutes (both of those are highly conductive). Next, their mixes are alive. Large concentrations of live bacteria & fungi, freak out the average EC or TDS meter. TDS or EC readings will not provide a true measure of nute value of organic ferts.
.
So basically, you can use your meter to check the quality of the water prior to mixing, but after that forget-a-bout-it....... Just mix it like it says on the label and give your plants one quart of the mixed up fertilizer per gallon of soil, per week.
.
I would not foliar feed during flowering. Trichromes are like velcro. You could use the foliar mix with the flowering mix to add N.
.
I've always felt BMO's flower fert was too light in the N dept., but the foliar fert mixed in with the flower, makes it just right. Probably no concidence there. Before they starting selling the foliar, I just mixed a 1/4 strength of their grow fert in with the flower power.
.
Hope this helps.....
Keep it Real....Organic.......


 

plantman969

Active Member
Key words " Wise Up "..... you do not know as much as you think you do.

Stick a TDS meter in regular coffee, then stick one in decaf - did it tell you which one had caffeine. The same applies to fertilizers.... if you just want high reading, buy some toxic waste - it's full of NPK with massive EC / TDS numbers.... I bet that would impress you.
.
You know as a rule, I really enjoy helping people. However, I'm not sure I have anymore for you.
.
Your attitude will not serve you well here. We organic types don't associate with hostile, " I know it alls ".
.
If you knew 1/2 of what you think you know, you'd be the smartest person I never met. Thank goodness......
.
Key words " Wise Up "..... you do not know as much as you think you do. NO METER in the WORLD can give you a readout / measurement of NPK value. Surely you didn't think your meter could tell you nute value. The ppm recommendations from fert makers are based on a known NPK value (determined by chemical testing), with a given measure of conductive elements (of which many are inorganic salts or metals, which do Mary not one bit of good).
i never claimed to know everything - if you read my post properly you would notice they are almost all QUESTIONS not statments untill the last post regaurding your velcro statment. Which at the time had not facts to go with it or any reason as to why you would not foliar feed.You just stated they were like velcro. Which does not help with out a reason as to why you think this.
WoW all i can say is wow, you are the hostile one. You didnt fully explain your first post, hence the questions in reguards to your post. I never claimed to know all at any point. I am sure i even posted the response that "is the reason the bmo nutes are not registering becuase they are organic nute?"

I just like to post the reasons why i think or thought the way i did or do. If i am going to try and help anyone with somthing i know, i at least try to explain the reason i think the way i do. Not just post statements as to what I think. Not everyone is All knowing and YESS you proboble do know more about organics than me and this is why armlenght suggested i ask you. Because he too feels you have a a fair share of knowledge reguarding organic nutes.Also please inform me as to when and where in my post i am trying to figure out the NPK of my nutes - Because Trying to understand why somthing is not reading on a meter has really nothing to do with NPK but with the Heavy metals in the solutions as YOU have stated. But if i am not understanding correctly please explain as to why.

"I would not foliar feed during flowering. Trichromes are like velcro. You could use the foliar mix with the flowering mix to add N."

What do you mean? Dont foliar feed during flower Tricomes are like velcro.

This statment makes no sense you have provided a statment with nothing to back it. Because they are like velcro what does this have to do with foliar feeding?

All you had to do when making this statment was add -
The BMO foliar mix has bacteria added to it, to enhance it. Do you really want to spray bacteria onto your trichromes (their sticky (like velcro) & they will act as a food source for them) and have them degraded by these bacteria.

These bacteria are excellent for growth in a medium - that's why products like Sub-Culture, Mcyo Magic, Plant Success...etc.. sell so well.

This mix is great during veg growth and when watered / mixed into your medium, wheter it is soil, coco, or water (hydro). I don't shit where I eat or spray bacteria onto my Trichromes......just weeks prior to harvest........


And i would have never posted
What do you mean? Dont foliar feed during flower Tricomes are like velcro.

This statment makes no sense you have provided a statment with nothing to back it. Because they are like velcro what does this have to do with foliar feeding?

Because at that point you would have explained your reasoning besides just stating facts. After reading this i understand why anyone would not want to use this in foilar feeding. But to say not to foliar feed during flowering i dont understand because if this is the case why do nute companys make foliar products to use during flowering - prime example is Colossial Bud Blast and Nirvana from AN both suggested to be used during the flowering time. I am not just trying to name AN products they are jusr the two that came to me off the top of my head. If you like i will do the research on which other companys that suggest this and post them for you aswell. Plus look it up plenty of people spry during flowering, they say you just have to wactch the humitity due to mold issues. Oh dutch passion suggest liquid light with the combination of their penitrator product. This is another one.

"Stick a TDS meter in regular coffee, then stick one in decaf - did it tell you which one had caffeine. The same applies to fertilizers.... if you just want high reading, buy some toxic waste - it's full of NPK with massive EC / TDS numbers.... I bet that would impress you."


Actually it doesnt because i could careless about coffie thats why i posted organic nute questions in the ORGANICS SECTION , and if you read my post i never stated that i was trying to figure out my NPK of my solution just the ec/ppm. Aand was trying to clarify my knowledge of organic nutes. Once agin i posted the question

I have two meters a tri-meter that reads ph, temp, ec, and ppm, and the second meter is a tds meter.

So yea on two different meters the product is not registering. so you dont have this problem? 1st i thought it was because it is an organic nute (hence the fact that i thought they were not registering because they are true organic nutes. Unlike Botanicare line that are not true organic nutes- also stated in my post. but from your response your product registers?" is the reason the bmo nutes are not registering becuase they are organic nute?"

What part of my post said i was looking for NPK info????????? Iused NPK statment to cover the grow and bloom nutes and additives are additives.

You know as a rule, I really enjoy helping people. However, I'm not sure I have anymore for you.
I dont think you do after this post more like to critisize people for there lack of knowledge. All i was trying to do was clarify my understanding of the nutes.

Armlengths Post -do u have anything else u can check it with? IF its reading other products, i would email BMO with this question....From this statment he is implying his nutes registered on a meter.Or he doesnt understand "organic" nutes either. (Armlength am am not bashing you so please take no offense) I just didnt read/missed the section of our post that said no i dont check the PH of BMO. I check the water i mix it in. I prefer doing the bubbler method. I make a mix of around four gallons then with my bubble wand or fish tank bubbler, i mix for at least 4 to 5 hours. then apply. But you can simply follow their website directions and have no problems.
http://stores.ebay.com/Blue-Mountain-Organics

I did not see this/overlooked when i posted question.

Your attitude will not serve you well here. We organic types don't associate with hostile, " I know it alls ".
MY ATTITUDE????I think you are upset because i stated the flaws in your unexplaind velcro comment. and at no point got hostile (and dont take this as hostility) i am trying to figure out why you are so angry. an as to why most people on grow sites have to start with such hostility insted of stating facts first along with EXPLINATIONS as to the facts they are posting. But you desided to start bashing me then give an explination as to what you though. This kind of thinking is just circular reasoning.



The only reason not to foliar feed during flowering is to avoid burnig plants, keep humidity down which in turn helps prevent mold - What part of this is Untrue? Besides the fact i said "THE ONLY" which was wrong on my part.

I spry my plant at least twice a day opposit of what hey get in the rez for the day. - If i add plain ph regulated water they get sprayed with additives if i add NPK nutes i spray with plain water and if i add my additives then spay with NPK nutes. Also if you are noticing deficincy problems load up a spray bottle with the given nute deficincy and spray on your babies. I even spray in mid day with lights on. Just make sure to use a good mister, Key word MISTER not just any spray bottle. I just add a little silica blast to the mix and watch as the plants literally absorb the water from the top and bottoms of the plants.This statment is true because i have watch it work with my own eyes. I am not out here to make things up and post things i dont think will work. I posted somthing that has worked for me in the hopes it may help someone else. I watched a N defficent plant turn from yellow back to green without adding anything to the rez by just foliar feeding with a grow nute. I also think this help with almost any deficincy (notice i said I THINK) If ou dont belive me than just give it a try (Not on your flowering plants) because you said you dont foliar feed during flower, so try it on a plnt that is in veg when she first starts to show a sign of deficincy. If it ever does. Because you have been growing for what ever amount of time and have probably got you shit dialed in to the point of no deficincy problems, but if you do give it a try. If it doesnt work so be it then come back and say it didnt work. But for me it worked both in veg and bloom. I have yet to have any major problems with deficency besides the time i mixed my nutes wrong and ended up droping my ph into the 4's and having to leave it there for a few hours till i could figure out what the problem was and what i did wrong. I also have 3 diff plants in m dwc setup and one likes a lower ppm and higher ph. than the other two but untill i figured that out i couldnt understand why is was having such a hard time. This is what lead me to start foliar feeding my plants. and guess what I worked. Once i started foliar feeding the plant it started to get better. I also had a plant with Mag problems because i had locked out the mag with my ph sitting at 5.5 and not knowing that Mg is locked out of the solution up to the point of what 5.7-5.8? Also Mg is one of the first nutes to be eaten by the plants and takin in that fastet. (From my understanding) if this is not true than please tell me what is. That way i am not posting false or incorrect info. Just dont bash because of it. all you need to do is state FACTS which you know or think to be true. If i make a statment it is usually because i realy think this is the answer. I am not in the habbit of of posting false or misleading info. I like you stated would like to help anyone with the info for which i think it true or factual.

Oh and whats is up with the friendly PM you sent me just to be redirected to this nasty response? Why didnt you post this



"The elements May needs, reduced / processed naturally, in their purest forms, in very clean water, yield a very small EC reading."

Now for the rest of the reply :

https://www.rollitup.org/2488463-post30.html

__________________



In this post instead of pm-ing me? Once again did i jusst make you mad when i ask for facts backing up a statment you made, that i didnt understand. Yes i did not understand the post. because there was nothing backing up what you said untill now - after the fact and after you had to look cool or whatever in the bashing of me.


AND - DIRT CLEAN you are just an ass.... You have nothing to write on this post except i am a douch bag- how about you give reason and fact as to why you think this instead of jusr agreeing with somthing somone else posted. At least be original. and come at me with reason besides following in the footsteps of other people. All you did was quote me with nothing to back it. Oh here is one MY SPELLING SUCKS because i dont care, this is a long post and if you can read it you get the jeest of it. Not every wod needs to be spelled correctly. So now how am i a douch bag?

So in the end you will probobly still think I am the ass and that i think i know it all. Hopefully this is not the case because i think you do have great info to give and everyone can learn from everyone. Because no maatter how long you/anyone have been growing (not you spiciffically) nobody knows everything and we can all learn from each other.


EXCEPT FOR DIRT CLEAN - Even your Tag is circular reasoning without the thought or spark of inteligence besides bashing.


So thaanks to all that have posted and i do truly appriciate the help.
 

plantman969

Active Member
ppm pens don't really read organic nutrients because of their [lack of] electrical conductivity.

Ec/tds is a measure of the conductivity of the solution, which only reflects the ionic components. With organic fertilizers a lot of the nutes are bound up in carbon compounds and not very conductive.

These two sentences were cut and paste from another site. I also read another study just now where they state they could easily dtermine the inorganic ferts with a ppm pen but with the organic they had to send to a lab to have npk analyzed.

Hope that helps. I trust the bmo>:)

like i said post something in your own words instead of copying and pasting something you read from another site and not something you know or understand - you are the douch
 

Ohsogreen

Well-Known Member
Plantman969.... A question would be more like " I'm curious why I get such a small reading on my TDS meter with this stuff ? " or " I don't understand why you would not foliar feed in flower ? "
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Not " that makes no sense, back it up, prove it, what's the deal, where is your reference " & " I blah, blah...yada, yada..yada... in your face buddy... "
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It's all about presentation. A politely asked question will get anwsered in a heartbeat. If you just want to exchange challenges & smart comments - what purpose will be served ?
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Now, for anyone who would like to know about why this Flower Power seems to be low on a TDS meter - I'll tell you.
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The process used by BMO uses bacteria to breakdown a certain mix of organic amendments. These bacteria bioconvert them from insoluble sources of NPK to soluble sources.
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This occurs by the use of enzymes produced by the bacteria, unlike harsh chemical ferts, which use much strong acids (which leave residues - conductive in nature). These enzymes convert the original element in to a purer / smaller (more absorbable form).
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I just took an half an ounce of Flower Power put it into a clean shot glass and checked the TDS with my best, clean, calibrated meter. It reads 7480 ppm, if I added this to a gallon of water which is 128 ounces, the conversion factor would 256, because you are using 1/2 of one unit (in this case) which is an ounce. Take the 7480 ppm and divide that by 256, that equals just a trace amount over 29 ppm.
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Now, that works out to be 29 ppm, which seems low to the average hydro person. But that is a measure of specific elements, without leftover chemical acids, without mineral salts, fillers, pH adjusters, chlorine, bromine or anything else. Plus this elements are bonded differently, because of the way they were processed (bioconverted).
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Take the average bloom booster, say 0-50-30 (serious overkill), this stuff is so concentrated they will tell you to mix it one teaspoon to five gallons of water. This yields a TDS reading of (product X) 100 ppm, some will tell you 200 ppm (product Y).
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Their is no difference in the NPK value of these boosters X or Y, that both have the same nute value, but with a different TDS reading. Wheter it is 100 ppm or 200 ppm in this case, both yield a nute value of 0-50-30 when mixed as instructed.
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This is were overhead comes in. They are mixing the same elements broken down chemically. Some of the mineral salts & residue from the strong processing chemicals remain, they either can't or don't take the time to remove them. The needed elements represent from 1/4 to 1/2 of the TDS reading on your TDS meter.
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The other 1/2 to 3/4 are the conductive mineral salts & or processing chemical residues, added dyes or pH stabilizers. So, out of that 100 ppm (product X) or 200 ppm (product Y) the desired / useable nutrients (what we are after) would be in the range of 25 to 50 ppm for Product X or 50 to 100 ppm for Product Y.
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The reason why I use a bloom boosters as a example, is because these boosters are simple (concentrated) additives in their purer forms.
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Now, since 1/2 to 3/4 of the total TDS (ppm readings) are dyes, fillers, insoluble mineral salts, processing chemical residues or pH stabilizers you can now see - the USEABLE portion of products X & Y are not really that large in percentage or ppm.
The unuseable portions actually read higher than, the desired / required elements.
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Now back to a bioconverted product, like Flower Power. What are they missing - dyes, fillers, pH stabilizers, insoluble mineral salts & harsh chemical residues (which make up most of the ppm numbers).
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That being said, now take that reading of 29 ppm, with a nute value (NPK) of 1-8-7, does it seem so weak now ? No, it's just the desired / required elements in a purer, cleaner form. No fillers, pH stablizers, dyes...etc.... So, should we be suprized that the Flower Power has a low ppm reading, not really.
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That's why I used the example of using a TDS pen in reg & decaf coffee to determine which one has caffine.
A TDS pen could not tell you which one has caffine and a TDS pen, in the above case, can't tell you the true NPK value of a product.
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The NPK value of a product is based on chemical tests (a known value), at a certain ppm reading. The ppm reading itself represents a known value, which is different for every product. Chemical testing is the only way to know the true value of a product.
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If you don't agree with this, google bioconversion. Read up on soluble, insolube elements, google properties of specfic minerals, EC of minerals, enzymes, water properties, how elements bind or percipitate in solution. Basic fertilizer components & processing, use of bacterial enzymes in processing, and fertilizer process residuals. Also read up on EC effects of microorganisms in solution (yes, bacteria alter (lower) ppm readings) by masking them (carbon binding). Mary likes carbon (building blocks).
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Then in a month or so, after you have a good ideal about what is going on, ask me some questions. I'll be glad to anwser specific, reasonable questions and even point you to specific references. I will not, anwser smarty pants questions, presented as challenges, with colorful phrases or comments.
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Don't take this as me being stand-offish, or claiming to be all that. I'm just saying, put in your time, study up, then ask better questions. You'll be smarter / more well informed and the discussion will, be just that. An exchange of ideas & knowledge.
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If you can't ask nicely, don't ask.........
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plantman969

Active Member
Plantman969.... A question would be more like " I'm curious why I get such a small reading on my TDS meter with this stuff ? " or " I don't understand why you would not foliar feed in flower ? "
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Not " that makes no sense, back it up, prove it, what's the deal, where is your reference " & " I blah, blah...yada, yada..yada... in your face buddy... "
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It's all about presentation. A politely asked question will get anwsered in a heartbeat. If you just want to exchange challenges & smart comments - what purpose will be served ?
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ohsogreen you are vert right and i am sorry i posed my question in the they way i did. :hug: This has just been a reacurring issue an most sites when asking a question ( just like Dirt) they all want to have smart ass responses or statments with nothing to back it up besides bashing someone just looking for info. It is my personallity i tend to take things the wrong way.:oops: also i am in no way trying to exchange challenges with you i am just the type that like someone to post explinations when writing comments. Once agin i am sorry if i offended/mad you mad.

Also your explination is spot on and i thank ou for it. If i have any questions in the future i hope you would be able to help due to your knowledge on the subject.

DIRT CLEAN - Please stop being such an immature idiot and at least have something to back up your statements. I can spell my key board is a also fucked up and a few buttons stick. This is not a class paper being graded and has no reason to be spell checked if the points can be read or the jeest of the subject matter can be understood.
 
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