semor90
Active Member
w/e so can we agree that you love sucky on the pp?
breeder seeds vs crossers
- Thread starter 15yearsofbreeding
- Start date
15yearsofbreeding
Actually 15 years of Age
Semor90 yea it's saturday and u just won da " purple schwag backyard breeders award." Right now i'd like to thank jim ortega for this kush#4 cross i'm smokin on.
This was worth the read. As A longtime member I completely agree with keeping these trolls off RIU. I find it hilarious how frequently this happens to the trolls here. Thread gets started and the 1st comment knocks em' right down. Why can't the rest of the internet be this kind.
Grojak
Well-Known Member
This coming from someone who jocks Sub's gear.... sorry no job openings, plenty in line for the job though. I hold Simon of Serious in high regards, say what you want.
Seriously why "everyone hatin"? The man stated facts, an F1 does not create a breed it creates a cross, and a breed by definition is one that breeds true, most of today's seed companies sell crosses and sure anyone can breed with them, but rarely do they create a breed, just a cross with multi phonos and shouldn't we, the buying public demand more from companies? Why hunt for the desired pheno, when with some time and work the "breeder" can create a stable seed line so everyone has 5/5 chances of getting the good one.
hazey grapes
Well-Known Member
crossing IS breeding, WTF? what do you think breeders do? they look for the best strains they can find or ones with specific qualities they're out to combine and go to work. the better breeders test more seeds for that 1:100 keeper and test their males basically just doing all of the quality control that separates amateurs from pros. crossing any 2 top strains should provide something nice in between the two with some hybrid vigor too. sounds like a plan. who's doin' that? who's working with those great strains that are off the popularity contest radar.
there is an art to back crossing an F1 and starting to select for the perfect combination of traits from a strain and a good cross can compensate for a weakness in an otherwise awesome strain like ones that bud so profusely they break their stems or that have no flavor like white strains are famous for.
it's just art. i'll never get van gogh or picasso, but people pay big money for that stuff. it's up to the market to decide which hybrids they want and from which breeders. the better stuff will get raved about eventually.
you know, when you go back far enough, EVERYTHING was bagseed. sometimes too, that amazing pheno isn't bred for but is an accident like dumpster.
it's cool too that so many growers are tinkering with so many strains. a lot of good ones are nearly extinct because no one's crossing them except whatever breeder is working them at the moment. i thought malawi was extinct there for a minute after afropips' passing. that's a good strain for taking what's out there now and making stuff different from all of the haze reshuffling and potentially much better.
without so many people farting around with breeding, the market would be much smaller and more limited. that's not good. it IS good that there's a huge range of jack herer & super silver haze phenos from different crosses. i would have liked to have tried some pure accidental cinnamon girl pheno jack herer. that could have used a few generations of back crossing by anyone that would try it.
there is an art to back crossing an F1 and starting to select for the perfect combination of traits from a strain and a good cross can compensate for a weakness in an otherwise awesome strain like ones that bud so profusely they break their stems or that have no flavor like white strains are famous for.
it's just art. i'll never get van gogh or picasso, but people pay big money for that stuff. it's up to the market to decide which hybrids they want and from which breeders. the better stuff will get raved about eventually.
you know, when you go back far enough, EVERYTHING was bagseed. sometimes too, that amazing pheno isn't bred for but is an accident like dumpster.
it's cool too that so many growers are tinkering with so many strains. a lot of good ones are nearly extinct because no one's crossing them except whatever breeder is working them at the moment. i thought malawi was extinct there for a minute after afropips' passing. that's a good strain for taking what's out there now and making stuff different from all of the haze reshuffling and potentially much better.
without so many people farting around with breeding, the market would be much smaller and more limited. that's not good. it IS good that there's a huge range of jack herer & super silver haze phenos from different crosses. i would have liked to have tried some pure accidental cinnamon girl pheno jack herer. that could have used a few generations of back crossing by anyone that would try it.
Grojak
Well-Known Member
I never stated crossing wasn't breeding, to use your words "WTF"!!! LOL why is it that you and this other gentleman so quick to attack anything anyone says that is different from your you think, live in a red state much? HAHA sorry I'll leave political jokes out of this (I say jokes but the one some people react you'd think they were "yo momma jokes").
What I said, and I dare you to show me where it is typed/written by a reputable source that an F1 is a breed, crossing 2 plants does not make a breed, with rare exceptions you get uniformity/similarity in an F1 but this is not the case with most of the popular crosses today (Serious Seeds Bubblegum is not what we call a "true breed" meaning that and F2 or a cross with it will not produce the same results as the original F1, however unlike so many popular crosses out there it consistently creates uniform plants, can't say that about many F1's). That is what I was stating, I never said crossing 2 plants wasn't breeding, that is just low brow political word spinning at it's best by you, or did you react before reading?
Edit: never mind my incoherency, it's late!!
What I said, and I dare you to show me where it is typed/written by a reputable source that an F1 is a breed, crossing 2 plants does not make a breed, with rare exceptions you get uniformity/similarity in an F1 but this is not the case with most of the popular crosses today (Serious Seeds Bubblegum is not what we call a "true breed" meaning that and F2 or a cross with it will not produce the same results as the original F1, however unlike so many popular crosses out there it consistently creates uniform plants, can't say that about many F1's). That is what I was stating, I never said crossing 2 plants wasn't breeding, that is just low brow political word spinning at it's best by you, or did you react before reading?
Edit: never mind my incoherency, it's late!!
missnu
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...I started some TGA Jilly bean and all the plants look just the same...same colors, leaves, shapes and sizes. So that is good. Just started the first few seeds flowering to see what's what...out of 4 plants 2 are male so far...as long as I get one female I will be happy...that way I can make some more seeds.
Just out of curiosity. What strains have you created in 15 years of "breeding?"
Fresh 2 De@th
Well-Known Member
yeah i was thinking the same thing? what's even funny is the person who asked for the police to come in and police the site to prevent trolling is actually doing the trolling, mixedmelody that would be you i am talking about specifically.This was worth the read. As A longtime member I completely agree with keeping these trolls off RIU. I find it hilarious how frequently this happens to the trolls here. Thread gets started and the 1st comment knocks em' right down. Why can't the rest of the internet be this kind.
don't know dude or haven't seen any of his other post but his initial post sounds spot on. i have seen a lot of vets state similar things in regards to his initial post in this thread so don't know where all the hostility came from or is about.
Yea, I am going to reserve my judgement until I read more posts. I do want to know what he's crossed though. Guess I have to go to the archives.
Corso312
Well-Known Member
Few things...I am disappointed in all the unstable strains that get pushed out and marketed to the public with little stability ..That is why I have been trying new sites/breeders to find what I like. Not a grammar douche at all..yes, I know my spelling and punctuation is bad but I just found this out recently and will share the correct phrase is "all intents and purposes" not intensive purposes... @ missnu..how was the rocklock? I just ordered some from dna.....
missnu
Well-Known Member
I really really really like the Rocklock. I got one fem seed that I have been cloning and regrowing for a year or so so far. I like it a lot...I "crossed" it with some LA confidential. Awesome! I assume that they must have been crossed from one another, or at least closely related because the resulting seeds all looked like the original Rocklock...I am not sure which I like better...the Rocklock or Rocklock LA cross....I think maybe the Rocklock LA cross...it has a better flavor, but the Rocklock has the better smell. Hell you can't take the rocklock with you anywhere, but the Rocklock LA cross isn't too stinky...I mean it smells, but not anywhere near as bad as the straight up Rocklock. I need to recross back together some of my cross seeds if for no other reason than to see what really ends from that, but just so I never lose seeds that are at least somewhat Rocklock. So if you can't tell, I love that particular plant. It was the first "easy to grow" strain I tried and it was love at first sight. Other people say it is alright or whatnot, but I love it! Just looks so neat when it grows. I have even turned it into fem seeds just to see...have one flowering now. If it comes out female and Rocklock ish then I will be happy. It was hard to tell the Rocklock LA crosses apart from the reg Rocklocks til flowering...then they start to smell different and the LA cross is taller, and turns purple...anyway I could go on and on, but I already have...
DNA genetics Rocklock is also awesome because of it's super sized calyxes...gives a lot of gigantic big healthy looking seeds.
DNA genetics Rocklock is also awesome because of it's super sized calyxes...gives a lot of gigantic big healthy looking seeds.
missnu
Well-Known Member
and it is pretty darn stable to randomly cross 2 plants and all the seeds planted from that cross look just the same...I would say in my case it happened because I am just recrossing something the breeder obviously had done before...they just seem too similar...anyway...blah blah blah
symbiote420
Well-Known Member
Exactly!! 85% of the beans offered today by "breeders," seedbanks, etc. are actually poly-hybrid strains, I talked about this subject a couple weeks ago with Motarebel, and Dizz of the Frost Bros we came to that conclusion. Mota stated that selection is the most important step when partaking in any breeding project(s), ibl = stable, uniform, true breeding plants, a poly-hybrid = less stable, more variation. F1 siblings begat f2s an f1 pollinated by another f1 is a poly-hybrid ex., a Blueberry x Afghan hit with a Northern Lights x Purple Kush male will in simple terms give way to many direct combinations + combos of each strains parental lineages as well. Then someone will probably find a male/female Bb x Af/N.L. x PK and use that on an elite cut or something..blah,blah,blah, ya got the pic! R.C. Clarke's Marijuana Botany is a good read for anyone thinking about breeding seriously, Soma and Greg Green have some nice books too!
The game is so screwed up now, too many peeps are in it for the $$$ and not the love, greed corrupts everything nowadays I guess, hell some bank(sites) won't even send you the gear you ordered it's got so corrupt, that pisses my off to see sick patients robbed whether it's bunk untested gear or crooked vendors...I thought the real purpose of these forums was to weed out all the Bullshiters, they just seem to create more bs, WTH?
TGA has flooded MI...damn shame! I know this guy's whole story because I was there in the beginning so I will refrain all my comments, but if I needed some A/C hooked up then I'd probably mess with him other than that...HA! Some people I know call him the Arjan of the North America, not good!!
hazey grapes
Well-Known Member
first off, i wasn't "pissed off", just not being careful about choosing diplomatic words. without going back and re-reding your comments, i vaguely remember you having quite a bit of attitude about someone else equating crossing and breeding as the same thing. breeding is NOT the same as "creating a breed" EVERYTHING that's alive and that reproduces sexually breeds
[h=3]breed·ing/ˈbrēdiNG/[/h]
[h=4]Genetic cross[/h] Similar term(s): crossbreeding.
you are simply not using the term breeding properly. crossing & breeding BOTH mean "sexual reproduction". breeding CAN lead to new "breeds", but theword you're looking for there is selective breeding. otherwise, it's just generic breeding. then there's the exact OPPOSITE of your definition of breeding, in-breeding
BTW you do know that f1s from two wildly different parents WILL create offspring that share traits of both parents and create something new. not a stable BREED, but something new regardless. back crossing and stabilization create breeds through selective breeding. non-selective breeding just makes offspring. heck, weed doesn't even need us to breed itself.
[h=3]breed·ing/ˈbrēdiNG/[/h]
| Noun: |
|
Definition:
The deliberate breeding of two different individuals that results in offspring that carry part of the genetic material of each parent.you are simply not using the term breeding properly. crossing & breeding BOTH mean "sexual reproduction". breeding CAN lead to new "breeds", but theword you're looking for there is selective breeding. otherwise, it's just generic breeding. then there's the exact OPPOSITE of your definition of breeding, in-breeding
not attacking anything, just stemming the flow of misinformation. hopefully now you see that your definition of breeding is merely a sub-set of the actual definition of breeding.
BTW you do know that f1s from two wildly different parents WILL create offspring that share traits of both parents and create something new. not a stable BREED, but something new regardless. back crossing and stabilization create breeds through selective breeding. non-selective breeding just makes offspring. heck, weed doesn't even need us to breed itself.
keepitcoastal
Well-Known Member
you can play with definitions all you want we know that crossing by definition is breeding are you the only one who was hung up on that?? the fact of the matter is there is a big difference between the YEARS OF BREEDING that went into a strain like serious seeds white russian to make it stable vs raredankess and these other companys releasing 15-20+ crosses in 1 year.