Breeding 101 Subs Method

great thread.. i dont know why i have never seen this.. very helpful when i start my own breeding

u know i've never really understood the way people refer to another as an idol but since reading an artical in an ht over 3years ago i've followed u with great inthueseasium(spelling?) and the way u make it your life's mission to promote the furtherment of this wonderfull plant we all love so well, and how u give it ur all day in and day out in hopes of helping that one person who's life would not be the same if u did not do what u do so well. their are lots of other words i could use but idol just seems right. we should all should hope to achieve what u have acomplished and to inspire a greater sense of wellbeing for others thank you, "Sub"

Hey Subcool just wanted to get your take on this opinion for breeding. This is from vic high and then the opinion on using the father to daughters is mine. Thanks I appreciate your time and value your opinion.

Now hereís the ìkickerî ñ because of the negative connotation of the example of an F2 above, some have the mistaken impression that any member of the F2 generation is undesirable as a plant. This is NOT necessarily true. Quite the contrary; the F2 generation is a treasure trove of possibilities. The recombination of genes produces a variety of different plants, among which there may be individuals of great value. This is actually the source for future true-breeding strains. A breeder who recognizes an outstanding and unique individual from an F2 group can work with it to create a true-breeding hybrid strain such as was done with classics like Skunk #1 and Northern Lights. The methods to accomplish this task vary, but back crossing to the original unique plant is typically a part
of a process which ultimately must accomplish the goal of creating a strain which breeds true for all the important traits which made the unique individual so valuable.

In combination with this:

That was a great post Vic, I think it gave a lot of people food for thought. I just wanted to add my two cents. An F1 is a cross conceived from the genes of two different strains. If the parents are true breeding (very rare), then the resulting offspring will follow Mendelís law and the resulting recombinations will be fairly predictable. If you seed the desirable plants together, brothers and sisters, from the F1 population you will see more ancestral lines showing up in the population making it far less predictable. If I take a choice male plant from the F1 population and seed it back to the original mother, or original father with the daughter, I am trying to fix the traits of those particular plants. I call this an F1 Back cross. When I grow out these plants and use the winner with the original mother or father again I recognize this union as a double backcross.

It makes so much more sense to me to cross the best daughters back to the original father to get 'daughter like' traits in future generations. Never, ever crossed my mind to back cross to the father, fuck. Crossing the best F2 male back to the original mother only makes it more like the mother, not the daughters.

The reason I'm asking is it seems we have the hardest time judging what the males carry as they don't produce flowers and we seldom flower them, so by breeding everything back to the original father, I should be able to get traits I want reinforced from females that I like or choose or 'the one', by eliminating the pressure to choose a male, which usually is kinda baseless to the goals of the project.

Why not always breed back to the original father for stability? Choosing the best females rather than guessing on the best males?

^ I also want to know the answer to his question please

Pretty please?

alright i give up

Forgive me if I am out of line posting this but I read this thread yesterday and then last night I think it came to me.

I think the reason is partially in what you say rocky: "we have the hardest time judging what the males carry as they don't produce flowers"

So your introducing a new unknown genotype (male) to a known phenotype (the female). Then your selecting for the new phenotypes you want. You stabilize the line back to the female and flower it to see how you did. Like you say you cannot really 'see' the results of the cross in the male, but more important, your trying to stabalize the genes and in most cases with the dankness, reveal a recessive allele and not a dominant one. So crossing an F1 or 2 daughter back to the original father will just add back all of the dominant genes you just tried to select out via the F1 & F2 generations. Basically you don't know what the pollen will end up with but you can find out by 'expressing' it through females. Back-crossing to the male defeats the purpose of selecting out because you'd lose your work.

This may be stoner drivel now but it made sensi to me last night.....

Dr. McNugget, I do agree with you, to a degree. But if you are finding the recessive alleles, in the f1 or f2's, and want to reinforce them, why not take this special daughter and simply cross her back to the father to reinforce the traits in the daughter we want? We know what the father produces and carries as it is in fact his daughter we chose. In this instance, we have judged the male through his progeny, so why not use the male to breed for stability? I still don't see why this isn't a better option.

I think the reason is partially in what you say rocky: "we have the hardest time judging what the males carry as they don't produce flowers"

Pandora's Box is an example of using male parent to lock down desired traits.

The results were spectacular and the project taught me a great deal about parents and selection.

Sub

subcool said:

Pandora's Box is an example of using male parent to lock down desired traits.

The results were spectacular and the project taught me a great deal about parents and selection.

Sub

Click to expand...

Thanks man, much appreciated, will read it again.

This is a great thread, JillyBean is some of my favorite medical smoke, might be the best of the best, smells like orange dreamsicles and is beautiful in every way. Thanks for the great strains your putting out there Sub. Peace-Shimmy

Sub,

Great info. I will most certainly try my hand at breeding one day as I would like to develope a strain of my own however I think I need to develope my skills as a grower before trying to breed.

Sub,

Thanks so much for this series. I am super interested in breeding but many write ups are kind of scary, more like the author was out to show how advanced they are rather than really help someone understand the process. You make it understandable without over simplifying.

Thanks AGAIN!!!

Very informative.

Great post, been doing research on breeding but nothing as informative as this.

Subcool you are the man bro ! For myself growing is a nacessity and quanity of harvest is not nearly important as quality. My wife suffers from chronic pain and a successful grow makes her life easier. I have always wanted to improve the potency and quality of my harvest. You cleared up alot of things for me as far as trying to breed for a better more potent crop. Alot is very fuzzy but i will reread this til the lights come on. Thanks for sharing your knowledge unselfishly and hope to try my hand at this for personal goals of helping my wife. I have bred reptiles for years and fairly successful as a breeder but trying to pick out recessive and dominant traits in a plant will be a challenge. I plan on running some jtr beans next run and picking out some quality girls to start a project with. I would just love to be able to add genetics to an already smokin strain. Would be nice to have quality seeds every run. Its obvious your compassionate about your craft and it shows , thanks for all the info and a real eye opener in the effort and time and hard work it takes to develop a awesome strain. I have done similar projects with reptiles that took 7 years to complete and find out the product you were trying to create just wasnt there and had to start over. Do you mind a question and answer for noobs ? Kind of a breeding for dummies ? Noob question one , if i breed a jtr male to a jtr female of desireable traits will all the seed be jtr ? Again thanks bud the jtr will make my wife smile im sure and that makes me smile . Also your supersoil threadf was the bomb ! Rock on brother ! One more goal will be to show up to the yearly newyears smokeoff with all the mountain boys and kick their assas !

Noob question one , if i breed a jtr male to a jtr female of desireable traits will all the seed be jtr
Working in the f2 generation improves stability but you will only lock down traits of the two parents you select so choose wizly

Sub

75/25 of the desiered results i believe

if i read it correctly

Great write up Sub! Gona possibly be working on a breeding project with some Jilly Bean. Did a lot of research on her and everything about the strain sounds good. Loved the vids of you smoking it, you can just tell by the look on your face that the taste is too just die for! Also love the vids and pics you've got of Jilly Bean! Can't Rep ya enough! Tell Mz. Jill I said thanks!